Canola oil advantages

[Tai Goo]

This is fascinating and amazing!

8 pages on the advantages of canola oil...

What it lacks in academics,… it makes up for with street smarts. LOL

 

[AVigil]

Is Parks 50 the standard for steel companies to quench in?

 

[Tait]

If it works, use it. If it doesn't work, find something that works.

I'm trying to find something that works!

Here's a practical reason why correct heat treat matters to me. Just for fun, I tried quenching some A2 chisel-ground coupons in vegetable oil. (I know, totally unnecessary for an air-hardening grade, but I was doing some testing anyway and wanted to explore that antique finish mentioned above). With 2 of the 4 pieces quenched in oil, I was able to pound a 1/8" chisel through a 3/16" piece of brass rod without visible edge deformation. With the other 2 pieces, the same test destroyed the edge.

It would be cool to demonstrate pounding a knife through a piece of brass without hurting the edge! I want to be able to do that every time.

 

[Tai Goo]

I think the industry standard for 1095,... might still be water.

 

[Tai Goo]

Maybe we should call canola "OMG-145"!

... and counting...

8 pages on the advantages of canola and 11 pages on alternatives to Parks #50,... and some folks still don't get it.

WOW,... just WOW!

 

[Tait]

some folks still don't get it.
Wow,... just WOW!

I agree.

 

[Tai Goo]

I agree.

I don’t get it,?… but fortunately (from the looks of it), I’m not alone.

Who thinks they get it? How about some logical conclusions here?... Maybe BMK has some.

Sum this whole thing up for us. We're all ears.

 

[melsdad]

If someone would like to do a serious test on quenching some 1095 in "Parks 50" and "canola" I would be glad to do the rockwell testing on an as quenced set of coupons. I have access to 2 accurate and calibrated hardness testers at work. I would do the tests myself, but I can't for several reasons. 1) my H.T. oven is not done yet. 2) I can't tie up the furnace at work for the complete testing. 3) I have no Parks 50, or canola for the testing. What do you say?

 

[BMK]

lol
I tried a page ago.

I don’t get it,?… but fortunately (from the looks of it), I’m not alone.

Who thinks they get it? How about some logical conclusions here?... Maybe BMK has some.

Sum this whole thing up for us. We're all ears.

 

[Tai Goo]

lol
I tried a page ago.

Yep, in less than 12 sentences.

Is there an ultimate quenchant? - probably so. Can anyone distinguish the blade performance results of one good quenchant over the another? - probably not. You can quantify all you want but most of your quantifying is outside the envelope of human perception. Its like a deaf person agonizing over which state of the art headphones to purchase and use.

If it works, use it. If it doesn't work, find something that works.

For some, quenchants are a means to an end of making a good blade. For others, the "Quest for Quenchants" becomes a comedic end unto itself.

 

[Tai Goo]

Anyone else want to take a stab at it?

12 sentences or less.

 

[MJV]

You guys sure make for some interesting reading.

 

[Tai Goo]

You guys sure make for some interesting reading.

Wow!

You did it in just one sentence… nice.

 

[Rick Marchand]

I think this does sum it up well enough. Though, I find the last sentence a little offensive. I agree that most of the makers who seek to delve deeper into their heat treat, will never have their toil recognised by the end user. So if you are in it to impress others, don't bother. I don't find it a comedic end, anymore than chasing the sharpest edge, tighest F&F, comfortable handle, utilitarian design, etc... It is simply a result of becoming so fascinated by something that it compels you to dig deeper. Canola is a great oil with many strengths... but those other oils were engineered for a reason. I don't understand why folks can't just say they like canola WITHOUT trying to downplay or ignore the reason why commercial quenchants were made.

I think this is one of those subjects that CAN'T be brought up without inciting a debate. Full vs. Differential Quenching, Quenchants, Testing and Geometry have definately become hotbuttons for Shop Talk lately.

Is there an ultimate quenchant? - probably so. Can anyone distinguish the blade performance results of one good quenchant over the another? - probably not. You can quantify all you want but most of your quantifying is outside the envelope of human perception. Its like a deaf person agonizing over which state of the art headphones to purchase and use.

If it works, use it. If it doesn't work, find something that works.

For some, quenchants are a means to an end of making a good blade. For others, the "Quest for Quenchants" becomes a comedic end unto itself.

 

[BMK]

For the pragmatist, the choice is always an easy one.

Rick,

The last sentence was not nice and I edited it. I was unable to take my social skills medication today.

Jeff

my medicine:

All things considered, this post has enjoyed a great ride - thanks, Tai!

 

[Tait]

Nice bike!

 

[Tai Goo]

Rick, Just because someone decides to stick with canola (or whatever), doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't interested in digging deeper, trying harder, getting better, going further with science, metallurgy, heat treating and blade performance etc...

Just using a commercial quenching fluid or any quenching medium, will doubtfully qualify or disqualify anyone’s work in and of itself.

 

[BMK]

Thanks, but you are not off topic. I use the RT to pick up quenchant occasionally.

Nice bike!

 

[javand]

. I don't understand why folks can't just say they like canola WITHOUT trying to downplay or ignore the reason why commercial quenchants were made.

That's a knife that cuts both ways Rick. It seems that the vast majority of loud voices are extreme purists in either direction. For every one person that's downplaying or ignoring the reasons for commercial quenchants, there's someone that assumes anybody that uses canola or any non-commercial quenchant is inherently an inferior knifemaker. Which is deeply ironic if you look at the pedigree of many of the unequivocal masters that have and still do use such alternative quench mediums.

I don't have a dog in this fight, since I firmly believe that both sides are taking too much on faith, but it does look ironically like every other argument in america. There's no middle ground with us, it's always "I'm right, and you're wrong.". Even if we pretend to play nice.

 

[Rick Marchand]

Rick, Just because someone decides to stick with canola (or whatever), doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't interested in digging deeper, trying harder, getting better, going further with science, metallurgy, heat treating and blade performance etc...

Just using a commercial quenching fluid or any quenching medium, will doubtfully qualify anyone’s work in and of itself.

Totally agree Tai..... you can use old plow disks, a brakedrum coal forge and a barrel of rainwater to quench in and still be very interested in every finite aspect of bladesmithing! I am one of those guys who is starting to get interested in the metallurgy but am not yet able to put it all into practice and see for myself, the results in my work. One could say I might as well be using canola because it works in the practical sense, is cheap and none of my customers can tell the difference, anyway! That is the reality of my current station. Hopefully, one day I will be able to say "Here.... THIS is why I do things this way." and not have to paraphrase what I've read in books or on the internet.

As it stands, I would be totally happy making great knives using canola oil as a quenchant... but I'm also intrigued as to WHY commercial quenchants were engineered, if not to provide something that organic oils cannot. This is just a choice I have made and don't push it on others.

Many knifemakers follow the heat treat schedules provided by the steel manufacturers. Do they specify what type of oil they use in getting those numbers? Serious question... I don't know the answer.