code 3 is out of control......

CODE 3 said:
Now, all of this crap could have been avoided with VTW Pming me and asking, respectfully, for me to clarify the infraction. Instead, I get this thread, a hostile PM, and a bunch of members throwing me to the wolves. I certainly hope this makes you all feel better, and I certainly hope none of you make mistakes that would cause this kind of pile on.
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no code 3 if you would not have made a mistake and then stood up for your mistake without even reviewing it until now...... then and only then could this crap have been avoided, and i will wait to honor your 'sincere apology' till you offer it for the other items i have pointed out... panties etc etc.

see ya
 
"Next in line" is a violation huh? I just read the rules for the exchange and I am just not seeing the infraction listed. That was not "chit chat" nor a "bump" and I have seen it done numerous times with seemingly no problems.

However, if "next in line" is also an infraction I do hope that ALL other such comments on All other knife brands from All other members have been dealt with Exactly the same way.

Note: As soon as I posted this I saw that Code3 had already addressed and taken care of the issue.
 
Tyrkon Lawson said:
"Next in line" is a violation huh? I just read the rules for the exchange and I am just not seeing the infraction listed. That was not "chit chat" nor a "bump" and I have seen it done numerous times with seemingly no problems.

However, if "next in line" is also an infraction I do hope that ALL other such comments on All other knife brands from All other members have been dealt with Exactly the same way.
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Code 3 has already admitted he made a mistake on this. Next in line is not a violation....
 
Code 3,

Thank you for the clarification and the reversal of the original infraction.

I hope you didn't interpret my comments as "piling on" you. From my perspective, it was simply necessary discussion of what, if it was policy, would be an important issue.
 
valleytinworks said:
no code 3 if you would not have made a mistake and then stood up for your mistake without even reviewing it until now...... then and only then could this crap have been avoided, and i will wait to honor your 'sincere apology' till you offer it for the other items i have pointed out... panties etc etc.

see ya
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What?

Now you need to clarify please.

I apologized for the infraction. I didn't see this thread, or even know about it until I got a phone call from another moderator, so this pile on started long before I even had a chance to review anything. I issued the infraction last night, and you could have emailed me or Pm'd me this morning asking for the clarification. You instead chose to trash me in public without even getting an explanation. I sure hope that makes you feel better.
 
Oooooooooooooookay. I'm going to make my call on this; it looks like this is a lot of stupidity rolled into one.

Code 3 was wrong for issuing the infraction. If an item is sold pending funds, it's not a "bump" to say "I'm next in line!" or the like. This was a mistake on his part, one he's already corrected by the time I've written this, I see.

I've talked with ValleyTinWorks on the phone (when he called me) and we've discussed this. He was wrong to post this in community, and I told him (as I'm saying here) that if you have an issue with how a mod does their job, the correct response is to post here in S&S and we'll discuss the issue. That's discuss, not flame - you get more flies with honey than vinegar.

That said, I can understand him being pissed. I can also understand Code 3's initial judgement, because apparrently ValleyTinWorks made a point in the past to say that he'll do whatever he wants, rules or not. The issue with this is that there is a huge difference between saying and actually doing. We all make judgements based on our history and experience, but we have to temper them with what's actually been done. ValleyTinWorks may have said he'd bump every thread, but he hasn't, and as such that shouldn't be held against him.

By and large I think everyone will agree that the new rules in the Exchange are working very well. Chatter is almost gone. People aren't abusing the system any more. Stuff is still being sold willy nilly. The no chatter rule is working - and even some of the vocal detractors from the beginning agree. This is good.

With regards to this specific thread:
1. I have no problem with someone saying "I'm next!" in a thread where the item has already been "sold pending funds"; it's a vital tool for the seller and allows them to avoid relisting the item. Plus, what in the world would the logic be in trying to "bump" an item that's already sold, right? That doesn't make any sense. So, in summation, Code 3 made a mistake, we all know that being 2nd or 3rd in line is acceptable posting, and the "no bump" rule is still good.

2. Problems need to handled here in S&S, period. If you have a problem, discuss it rationally, calmly and don't try to extort or give ultimatums. We're all adults, let's try to act that way. If you can't articulate what you are saying then step away from the keyboard until you can.

3. Don't sass the mods. Period. I don't care if you are huffy, pissed, or whatever. The job sucks, don't make it any harder.

If everyone can agree that everyone could have handled this better, we can move on. Next time, be civil, be articulate, try to work it out through PM's before you bring it here, and everyone act like adults.
 
Kevin, if you'll permit to (respectfully) offer a complaint, I think the entire "infraction" system, and all the rules related to what can and can't be posted in various forums, what language or method of language can and can't be used, all of this, is just too complex and too strict to enforce consistently. People are getting "infractions" for behavior that isn't at all negative. Others are getting infractions for behavior that is identical to that of people who aren't penalized. For example, I received a five-point infraction for "insulting other members" when I was responding in kind to someone being extremely insulting -- how does thought-policing of this type actually enhance the forum? When the letter of the law, rather than its spirit, becomes gospel, and when that law is too strict, everything suffers. Then there was the infraction you reversed for me, one that I received because I posted a knife-giveaway in Community (where "knife talk" isn't just not allowed, it's forbidden apparently). The rules exist as guidelines for dividing site content according to catagory and context, sure, but when did they become something by which we had to live and die, violation of which is cause for punishment?

When my Gold Membership comes up for renewal I am seriously considering not bothering, specifically because it's such an incredibly annoying and cumbersome set of restrictions that can't be policed evenly or fairly. I've seen this type of legalism destroy any enjoyment many people might otherwise find in a number of large sites, and maybe this is a function of size, but... I just can't help but think that this system creates a very unpleasant environment that alienates forum members.
 
All I know is I've never been given an infraction in all my years here and I'm proud of that! :p

:D
 
Well Phil, your objection is noted, and I disagree. If you don't like how complex it is, don't violate the extremely simple rules. If you don't like an infraction, then you come to me about it. That said, the ones issued wrongly are greatly outweighed by people breaking the rules, and the warnings & infractions are our way of saying "hey, you screwed up". The alternative is to allow bad behavior, and just ban people instead of warning them. This system actually allows for accountability and a "record" of past actions.

If you aren't going to renew your membership over it, see ya. I don't take kindly to people trying to extort me with paying memberships.
 
RWS said:
All I know is I've never been given an infraction in all my years here and I'm proud of that! :p

:D
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That's because bribe money doesn't bounce. :D

You're late this month. ;)
 
Spark said:
If you aren't going to renew your membership over it, see ya. I don't take kindly to people trying to extort me with paying memberships.
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Kevin, I'm not trying to extort you. I'm just offering what I presume to be a "paying customer's" perspective on the notion that this is valuable feedback for you, the business owner. If my objections are far outweighed by the benefits of the system (and by satisfied, paying members), great, and good for you. Nobody's got a gun to my head making me participate, after all. I just can't help but think that there are bound to be other members who feel the same way I do. If they are in the minority, it doesn't matter, and we'll all vote with our feet and our wallets regarding where we wish to spend our time.

I offer my opinion respectfully and constructively, for no other reason that I thought it might be of use to you.
 
Spark said:
Well Phil, your objection is noted, and I disagree. If you don't like how complex it is, don't violate the extremely simple rules. If you don't like an infraction, then you come to me about it. That said, the ones issued wrongly are greatly outweighed by people breaking the rules, and the warnings & infractions are our way of saying "hey, you screwed up". The alternative is to allow bad behavior, and just ban people instead of warning them. This system actually allows for accountability and a "record" of past actions.

If you aren't going to renew your membership over it, see ya. I don't take kindly to people trying to extort me with paying memberships.
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well spark, i cooled down and i left it in your hands, and you didnt see fit to reverse the sassing the mods penalty and you failed to tell the mods they stepped out of line, code3 can tell me to not get my panties in a wad but i cant complain about getting an unwarranted hit..... so with that said, i am out of here. i will not be using this site anymore and will tell folks why.


it saddens me, however i refuse to be treated like shit by folks that have no cause and no authority to do so.


i am sure jerry busse will not be happy that one of his customers received this shit for trying to buy one of his knives.
 
all this whine over a infraction? wtf i received one a few weeks ago for some stupid and asinine reason,i didnt skip a beat-

i was also in a pissy mood today after i recieved a package with a bad knife,took the dog outside and relaxed-
 
Bastid and I worked through our misunderstanding. Here is a couple of clips of our posts in the other thread.

Thank you all for your help.

Sincerely,

John


Bastid said:
He is welcome to comment on the moderation.

Am I suposed to take it when he calls me dingy for moving a thread where it belongs?

It is a simple question.

By the way Rat and I are cool and have worked this out.
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Rat-30 said:
Bastid and I worked this out via PMs.

We are on the same page - I stated my opinion of a procedure for dinging for posting in the wrong forum - I did not intend a personal attack, and can see where he could take it that way...

Thanks everyone - the infraction has been removed.

Sincerely,

John
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valleytinworks said:
.


it saddens me, however i refuse to be treated like shit by folks that have no cause and no authority to do so.
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I echo that statement, VTW.

You are the one who started this whole mess. Don't try to shift blame on anyone else. You had the opportunity to PM or email me right away, and you chose to treat me like shit instead by starting this thread, and getting all of your friends to join the bandwagon. In this case, I have the authority to issue infractions, and at the time, I believed I had cause. I did not treat you like shit at all. You had the opportunity to keep this a private matter, and you chose to trash me instead. I'd like to know how you and your friends justify that.

You reap what you sow.

I did the right thing, manned up, and admitted I made a mistake. I am human. I even apologized for the mistake. Now it is time for you to man up, and do the right thing.
 
Heavy & Spark: Thank you for the "Next in line" clarification. I was initially against the new rules but so far, with the exception of some kinks, they seem to work out well enough. This (next in line issue) is just one of those kinks.

Respect: regardless of how one member/mod feels about another member/mod we really need to keep insults out. As you can see from this thread, emotions to what others have said have overshadowed the original reason for this discussion.

I hope things cool off over the weekend and we do not loose any great members on this great forum. ;)
 
CODE 3 said:
I echo that statement, VTW.

You are the one who started this whole mess. Don't try to shift blame on anyone else. You had the opportunity to PM or email me right away, and you chose to treat me like shit instead by starting this thread, and getting all of your friends to join the bandwagon. In this case, I have the authority to issue infractions, and at the time, I believed I had cause. I did not treat you like shit at all. You had the opportunity to keep this a private matter, and you chose to trash me instead. I'd like to know how you and your friends justify that.

You reap what you sow.

I did the right thing, manned up, and admitted I made a mistake. I am human. I even apologized for the mistake. Now it is time for you to man up, and do the right thing.
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code3, you are full of it, i did pm you, you even responded to that pm, you are the root cause of this problem.... and while you apologized for one thing you failed to apologize for others.... and by the way spark actually asked me to post your pms..... so if you have issue take it up with him, i am sick of THE
mods that choose to act like self righteous pricks, if that shoe fits you or any others then wear it.
 
Being a moderator on a website, any website at all, sucks. plain and simple. its a job that would not even be necessary if all of us who frequent forums were capable of sitting in front of a keyboard without acting like a bunch of schoolkids having a pissing contest. Its an interesting phenomenon really, the way the internet makes people act and react towards one another in ways they never would in the real world.

But yeah, moderating sucks. I've done it before and will never do it again. Its a thankless job, especially considering the amount of crap you have to deal with without even the benefit of bringing in minimum wage.

I believe that the moderators here do the job they do out of a desire to keep this community a nice place to visit. Yeah, there's bound to be some rules we don't like but that's just the way things go to keep the place operating smoothly.

Mods are humans though. They make mistakes and, sometimes, jump the gun. It happens. Now, VTW, you made some mistakes as well. You could, and should, have handled the situation differently.

It is what it is. Code 3 apologized for his part in it though I notice that you have not for the part you played in it, VTW. Maybe you think you don't have to and that is certainly your right but I hope you can stop, get outside or do whatever it is you need to do to calm down. Going on like this is helping no one and certainly not yourself.
 
Chris, I'm going to tell you again what I told you on the phone: You need to calm down, chill out, and back off. As you know, I'm running a business and I have other pressing things right now. I didn't forget about this thread, but I didn't have the time to finish doing what I was in the middle of.

Quite frankly, you are disappointing me with your continued behavior. Code 3 admitted he made a mistake, reversed his infraction against you and apologized. I reversed Rat-30's infraction while I was talking with you over the phone. Instead of giving me the benefit of the doubt that I'm going to continue sorting this, you are still acting pissed off and forcing me to waste even more time, without letting me even talk behind the scenes with people.

Yet again, you didn't approach me and try to handle this. Yet again, you are acting out and it's showing in your text. So, to repeat myself in clearer terms: Chill the fuck out already and let me handle things. You've already seen I'm willing to reverse infractions, but the way you are acting now isn't exactly winning me over, you know?
 
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