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Cold Steel Strider rip-0ff
- Thread starter killerskill
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2005
- Messages
- 2,027
Apology accepted.
..and your guess would be wrong, Michelle.
Yes, I know Tom Mayo is a knifemaker. I've been familiar with that fact since the days when Ken Warner was still editing the Knives series. IIRC, Mr. Mayo's work first appeared in K'85, though I could be off by a year. It's also irrelevant, which is why I didn't bring it up.A knifemaker can still be a "Strider fan" and support Strider Knives and its owners out of professional courtesy. In an absolute sense you're right. All knifemakers are in competition with one another because they all make knives. In a practical sense, they're not since the style of their knives are very different and the respective markets for those knives are also largely different. All car manufacturers are in competion with one another because they all make cars. However Ferrari's 360 Spider is completely different from a Mercedes CLS 500 and the market for each is different. It might overlap, but not in any way that would cause either mfg. any direct competition.
I didn't say nor did I ever imply it was appropriate for other people who share my POV, you did. That's a false attribution on your part. However, when pushed, I tend to push back. If that's the worst response you can find in my posts in light of what's been said, I've exercised better restraint than others here.
Interesting you've expressed no complaint at all on "retard" "weasel" "hot shot keyboard commandoes" (sic) or Mr. Mayo's "bolt of lighting" remark which can be interpreted as a veiled threat. Instead you've focused on me exclusively.
This is a very good example of what I mentioned to DaveH. You seem to be objecting to "name calling" entirely on the basis of who is doing it. Why not condemn all parties equally and by name?
I'm glad you popped in though. Since you worked the industry side of blade shows for several years now, you've seen a lot of knives by a lot of knifemakers. Can you refute or correct my assertion that the blade profile (and much of the same general grind lines) used on the Cold Steel G.I. Tanto and on several of Strider's knives like Models BN, BT, and WB was an Ernest Emerson innovation?
Who's really getting ripped off here, Michelle?
Lynn Thompson popularized the kiriha zukuri tanto design in this country. Before Cold Steel, the profile was virtually unknown outside a few makers like Phil Hartsfield. So we can date the start of the tanto trend no earlier than the 1980s. The Emerson "CQC" style blade became popular after that and (I claim) is an outgrowth of the original tanto trend. I also claim nobody made that style before Emerson and it is his innovation. It certainly became his initial signature blade style.
Who came up with the blade design first? I say Ernest Emerson. Do you have any proof which refutes this?
@ DXC
Not all threats have to be delivered so crassly. Go look up what a "metaphor" is.
BTW, he said he hoped that you didn't get struck by lightning. He is looking out for your well being.
Oh indeed. How very considerate of him.
Thank you for pointing out the obvious. No one on this board is writing professionally for publication. Btw. You forgot to capitalize the E in English. See Rule 13.
Proofread your own posts before nitpicking mine.
So I guess you still think Tom Mayo can command and direct lightning.
I should listen to the timeless advice from Jhillas since you're doing nothing but trying to get attention.
Thanks Michelle for answering my question.
I'm stepping out of this thread now. Unfortunately, I have nothing nice to say about Lynn Thompson and won't be buying any Cold Steel products. However after reading this, I won't be buying anything from Mick Strider either. I don't mind that he was a felon or even that he lied about military service. I do think that the behavior of people re: his product is a little fanatical and a lot of you on both sides of the argument have made yourselves look foolish over it.
let it drop. if you don't like LT, don't buy Cold Steel. If you don't like Mick Strider, don't buy his knives.
and if you do, knock yourself out. it's your money.
I've made my decision, based in part on this thread.
I'm stepping out of this thread now. Unfortunately, I have nothing nice to say about Lynn Thompson and won't be buying any Cold Steel products. However after reading this, I won't be buying anything from Mick Strider either. I don't mind that he was a felon or even that he lied about military service. I do think that the behavior of people re: his product is a little fanatical and a lot of you on both sides of the argument have made yourselves look foolish over it.
let it drop. if you don't like LT, don't buy Cold Steel. If you don't like Mick Strider, don't buy his knives.
and if you do, knock yourself out. it's your money.
I've made my decision, based in part on this thread.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2004
- Messages
- 187
As of 3:48 today, you wern't.
Noss4's tests are awesome and I look forward to more. However the incredible lack of experimental control leaves alot of error bars everywhere, when the knife broke he might have hit a knotted spot or something harder whilst the other knives missed the same problem in their tests. They're fun tests, but certainly not the last word in any knife performance review.
Gotta love your support for a fellow knifemaker's creativity.
Now if you as a knifemaker have any proof that the blade profile I mentioned wasn't invented by Ernest Emerson, I'd love to see it. I claim it's a very recent design which means one maker, almost certainly alive today, is the inventor of it.
Everyone else is ripping him off. Cold Steel, Strider, Extrema Ratio. Everyone.
But only Cold Steel gets condemned for it.
Re-reading this thread, I can see why Spyderco patented their opening hole, why Jack Crain patented a couple of his knives, and why Brent Beshara is in the process of patenting his grind.
Gotta love your support for a fellow knifemaker's creativity.
Now if you as a knifemaker have any proof that the blade profile I mentioned wasn't invented by Ernest Emerson, I'd love to see it. .
Well, I guess with your head as far up your rear as it is you must have missed the sarcasm
I have much respect for my fellow knifemakers
and all this proof you keep asking for in ref to Emerson, do YOU have any *proof* that he is the one who invented it?
If so, I'd love to see it:yawn:
Well, I guess with your head as far up your rear as it is you must have missed the sarcasm
Sure. That's why I used the
icon. Maybe I should use it again. But enough of that. You've raised a very good question: To conclusively "prove" that Ernest Emerson invented the blade profile, I would have to show that it was never done by any maker in history before Emerson. But that's my claim and I'm asking the experts to disprove it. If I make a claim, I certainly should show some support for it (which I'm about to), but it's up to those who disagree with the claim to provide the proof which refutes it.
Now then, *begins lecture* in support of my claim, Ernest Emerson was first listed as a knife maker in Knives '89 on page 178. The entry lists his first knife sold in 1983. The first photo of an Ernest Emerson knife appeared in 'Knives 89 on page 32. It was a spearpoint blade, folding knife with a linerlock.
Ernest Emerson's knives were photographed several times in the following years, none of them having a profile combining the kiriha zukuri tanto with a clip blade, what I'll call the CQC profile. His first knife with this profile is shown in Knives '94 on page 137. I believe this may be one of the earliest photographs of the CQC profile, though it probably appeared in a number of magazines at the time as well.
Based on this research, I cautiously date the CQC profile as circa 1993 (since the photos for Knives '94 were submitted a year earlier).
The CQC profile was most clearly shown a year later in Knives '95 on page 145 on both a folding and fixed blade. In both cases, the knives show all the essential features of the design: the point is in the center of the blade, not along the top. The edge style is a kiriha zukuri tanto (which was popularized in the early 1980s by Lynn Thompson). Lastly, the knife has a straight clip point.
Ernest Emerson's CQC profile was an immediate success and suddenly everyone was copying it and continues to do so. However, I've never seen anyone use that profile before Ernest Emerson. Therefore, I claim he was the first to do so, and it is his invention.
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2005
- Messages
- 1,449
Gotta love your support for a fellow knifemaker's creativity.
Now if you as a knifemaker have any proof that the blade profile I mentioned wasn't invented by Ernest Emerson, I'd love to see it. I claim it's a very recent design which means one maker, almost certainly alive today, is the inventor of it.
Everyone else is ripping him off. Cold Steel, Strider, Extrema Ratio. Everyone.
It looks to me as if the reputable companies all did something significant to try and improve on Emersons design. CS made a carbon copy of Striders variation.
Think of the Emerson as a factory stock Civic Si. The ERs and the Striders are all Civic Si's, but they have been modified with different aftermarket exausts and intakes, ect. They are still Civics to the naked eye, but under the hood they are different from the factory model, and different from each other. What CS did is outfit there Civic with the exact same brand of aftermarket parts as Strider, and then diss striders wheels.