A couple of you guys have a real hard on for Strider. Relax. You act like he came to your house and dumped on your lawn, drank your beer and slept with your wife. You type such long winded, blowhard responses. Do you put this much effort into your day jobs?
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Cold Steel Strider rip-0ff
- Thread starter killerskill
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I wonder if anybody remembers who made the tanto blade popular in the U.S.?
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Bob Lum in the custom knife arena, and probably Cold Steel as far as manufacturers go.
I'll second Keith Montgomery's claim (since I said something similar on page 2 of this thread), and add in Phil Hartsfield as an additional maker. He (Hartsfield, not Kieth) was also one of the first to focus chisel edged grinds, IIRC.
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Vaako, I believe you've taken a paraphrase and turned it into a lie. Here's what I said.
"There is just no question the CS knife is copied after the Strider look, even though a couple small changes have been made, such as the angled butt on the handle. In point of fact, small changes tend to point to the actual intent to copy the design, look and feel of the Strider knife."
I have to wonder as to which other facts you've "paraphrased".
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I think it interesting that people are inclined to take the negative view, yet not analyze the positive elements.
Mick was in the 2nd of the 75th Ranger Regiment. I think most ex-Army vets would agree that you don't get placed in the Ranger Regiment without some qualifications, not least of which is Jump School. It's highly doubtful you'd become a Ranger without having put in some time with a line unit, and probably done that time with some distinction. I know, and somewhere back in the bowels of this thread I said, that Mick spent some time getting jungle training at Ft. Sherman, Canal Zone. I know that because I went to Jungle School there myself and Mick was aware of features of that base which would be almost impossible for anyone who had not been there to know. The Army does not select the average Joe to get these slots; you have to be above average. As to what else he did while in or out of the Army NOBODY in this thread knows. The focus is entirely on what he didn't do, for which he paid a price; there is nothing about what he did do for which he is due some measure of respect. Few here could/would/ have qualified to have done the things listed above.
There seems to be little disagreement that Cold Steel COPIED Strider, even if you believe someone else came first. The is NO evidence of who came up with the Americanized tanto first. All we know are those people who got their name in a magazine. Unless you were in attendance at the earlier Guild or other knife show before Emerson or whomever photographed their knives, you don't know. Stop pretending you do. You don't.
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Jerry, if Mick was a Ranger, why would he allecute to never having finished Ranger school? That just makes no sense to me at all, unless that court document is somehow fraudulent.
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You can be in the Ranger Regiment without completing the school. I know of another person who had that status. I think you ultimately have to take the course, but not necessarily when you join. Keith, there are some positive truths.
Yes, I believe that's the difference between being tabbed or not. Scrolled and tabbed are two different things. I can go ask my roommate (former Ranger 1/75) and clarify this if someone else doesn't get back to it before me.
m1
wolfmann601
Gone, but not forgotton. RIP Ira.
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Where/when did Jerry anything even remotely close to the crap you say is a "closely paraphrased" point raised by Jerry?
Why don't you try being factual in your posts? Try paraphrasing accurately Instead of spinning it into horseshiit. Jerry posts are pretty clear and concise, it's easy to paraphrase him. However, doing it accurately while maintaining one's integrity and credibility seems to be somewhat difficult for you, huh?
I don't usually post here.... Mick and the rest of the Strider crew are stand up guys. Most of the haters here, I guess, have never commited a crime or made a mistake in their lives. Mature adults know that it's not who you were in the past, its who you are in the present and who you will be in the future. I don't know Mick STRIDER personally, but I know enough of him, from respectable forums, to say that he's a good guy who gives alot to others.
Having said that, STRIDER kicks ass...now get me outta here.
Having said that, STRIDER kicks ass...now get me outta here.
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Good Lord, this thread is STILL going? Blah blah blah.
As long as Mick keeps on lying, there'll be people calling him on it, probably in the thread from 2005, which shows amazing zombie powers.
Aragorn of California says the continued attention to his past doesn't bother him, well, it only bothers him enough to add another layer of bullshit every so often.
Here's the latest one: Bolding of points of interest are mine.
http://www.badlandsforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6774
What's really sad is that people uncritically buy this happy horse shit. His groupies never ask him about the crap he leaves out either.
People should do themselves a real favor and go over the archived Strider forum here. Pure comedy gold.
Aragorn of California says the continued attention to his past doesn't bother him, well, it only bothers him enough to add another layer of bullshit every so often.
Here's the latest one: Bolding of points of interest are mine.
http://www.badlandsforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6774
What's really sad is that people uncritically buy this happy horse shit. His groupies never ask him about the crap he leaves out either.
People should do themselves a real favor and go over the archived Strider forum here. Pure comedy gold.
wolfmann601
Gone, but not forgotton. RIP Ira.
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- 7,385
So we are now supposed to uncritically buy your happy horseshiit? What about the crap the other side's groupies left out? Neither side has truly proven their position so it's difficult for many of us to take sides. I have never met Mick, don't know Mick, never even said hello to Mick but I appreciate all the man does for the Military and LE, all he does for the Special Olympics, and for Children with Autism.
Mr. Boats sir; When you can walk up to Mick Strider at a knife or gun show and say this to his face no one will critisize you as you continue to discredit the man. I am not suggesting one needs to have a fist fight to say what he believes in, just saying one needs to have the balls to discredit another man face to face. One should not be surprised to end up in a fist fight because the words used to discredit the man are pure fighting words in my books.
Hey all, have a nice weekend, it's freaking cold here in New England!!!!
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Chris Osman has been following these threads. It would be interesting to have him add his thoughts.
So we are now supposed to uncritically buy your happy horseshiit? What about the crap the other side's groupies left out? Neither side has truly proven their position so it's difficult for many of us to take sides. I have never met Mick, don't know Mick, never even said hello to Mick but I appreciate all the man does for the Military and LE, all he does for the Special Olympics, and for Children with Autism.
Mr. Boats sir; When you can walk up to Mick Strider at a knife or gun show and say this to his face no one will critisize you as you continue to discredit the man. I am not suggesting one needs to have a fist fight to say what he believes in, just saying one needs to have the balls to discredit another man face to face. One should not be surprised to end up in a fist fight because the words used to discredit the man are pure fighting words in my books.
Hey all, have a nice weekend, it's freaking cold here in New England!!!!
If only duelling were still legal good sir!:jerkit: Criticize me all you want, the truth need not confront a liar face to face to still be the truth.
Mick and his fanbois depend on the threat of physical violence to keep critics silent in person. That's usually how it goes for those who can't prevail with their wits intact. However, judicially taking his half of SKI might be well worth a right cross or a Folsom rush.
I don't have to discredit Mick Strider. A knife isn't the only thing he can apparently fabricate at will.
As soon as someone can explain to me Mick's overseas deployments from prison and why Uncle Sugar would have logically wanted a spinally crippled pisspot private with a felony record to serve time in Somalia instead of prison, I'll be happy to let this sordid matter drop.
In the meanwhile, I can always order a knife from the real deal over at Ranger Knives.
If they don't, they have no business repeatedly claiming Ernest Emerson didn't invent it. I have support for my claim he did. They have nothing. I repeat myself because the same loud voices keep repeatedly claiming I'm wrong with no support of their claim. Why don't they deliver some proof for a change? Could you ask them that? Maybe they'll listen to you.
Mr. Hossom, I suggest you don't use the word "Lie" without irrefutable and above all court defensible evidence in support of it. Falsely or rashly claiming another's writing is a "lie" is libel. This discussion is going from bad to worse and irresponsible remarks of that sort are the cause.
My paraphrase of your comment was accurate, which is probably what's rankling you.
"There is just no question the Cold Steel and Strider blades are copied after the Emerson profile, even though a couple small changes have been made, such as the grind type or the edge angles. In point of fact, small changes tend to point to the actual intent to copy the design, look and feel of the Emerson blade profile."
I grow tired of having to repeat the same thing because you choose to ignore the obvious simply because it is yet another thing that is unflattering to your friend.
Mr. Hossom, I'm not discussing your deliberately vague concept of an "Americanized tanto" (whatever the heck that is) so quit trying to muddle the issue.
My focus is on the combination of a kiriha zukuri tanto, the same commonly associated with Cold Steel's product line, and a clip point blade.
You haven't shown a single shred of proof that Ernest Emerson didn't invent this profile first.
Maybe that's all you know Mr. Hossom. Please don't ascribe the sad limitations of your scholarship onto others. The source I've cited wasn't a magazine. I haven't cited any magazines. That's another one of your distortions.
The Knives series is one of the most definitive reference series on the custom and production knife field and has been for over twenty five years. Ken Warner's stretch as editor of the books was longer than your entire full-time knife making career to date. It was in print before you sold your first knife back in 1983 and was showcasing new knives for close to 16 years before you went "full time". You haven't shown anything that calls the quality of his work into question.
From what you've shown here, all you know is what you kind-of, sort-of remember you saw wandering around a one knife show or another. Somehow you seem to think that qualifies you to dismiss documented proof entirely on the strength of your own reputation. It doesn't.
I don't know how many times I've repeated the fact that my claim isn't an irrefutable certainty, Mr. Hossom. As I said earlier, for me to conclusively prove that Ernest Emerson truly invented the profile, I would have to show that no other knife ever made in human history ever had before he did.
As I've also mentioned, that's an impossibility. That is why I make it as a claim, not a fact. Is the distinction clear enough for you, Mr. Hossom? Are you getting it yet? Of course you are. You're being deliberately and stubbornly obtuse because you can't refute it and you don't like the conclusion.
If you feel my claim is incorrect, why don't you deliver some solid evidence disproving it?
I'm not really impressed with how many knife shows you visited, what you think you remember you saw at them, or anything else which relies on your openly biased and selective interpretation. You do have a "side" in this discussion, you've said so yourself, and so you've discredited yourself as an impartial observer.
If you feel my claim is incorrect, good for you. Maybe it is. So prove it. Post some dated and independently verifiable proof that someone other than Ernest Emerson first invented the profile.
Deliver the goods, walk the walk, or whatever else other slang the "operator" crowd likes to use.
There used to be a time when it was called "put up or shut up," and I really wish you would do one or the other.
I want someone to provide solid evidence that another maker invented and made knives using this blade profile before Ernest Emerson did. It's a kiriha zukuri tanto combined with a clip point.
It sounds so simple, doesn't it?
His post #472.
My quote.
"There is just no question the Cold Steel and Strider blades are copied after the Emerson profile, even though a couple small changes have been made, such as the grind type or the edge angles. In point of fact, small changes tend to point to the actual intent to copy the design, look and feel of the Emerson blade profile."
That's a close paraphrase, whether he likes it or not. What he dislikes most of all both quotes are correct. Cold Steel copied Strider. Strider copied Emerson.
Mr. Hossom, I suggest you don't use the word "Lie" without irrefutable and above all court defensible evidence in support of it. Falsely or rashly claiming another's writing is a "lie" is libel. This discussion is going from bad to worse and irresponsible remarks of that sort are the cause.
My paraphrase of your comment was accurate, which is probably what's rankling you.
"There is just no question the Cold Steel and Strider blades are copied after the Emerson profile, even though a couple small changes have been made, such as the grind type or the edge angles. In point of fact, small changes tend to point to the actual intent to copy the design, look and feel of the Emerson blade profile."
I grow tired of having to repeat the same thing because you choose to ignore the obvious simply because it is yet another thing that is unflattering to your friend.
Mr. Hossom, I'm not discussing your deliberately vague concept of an "Americanized tanto" (whatever the heck that is) so quit trying to muddle the issue.
My focus is on the combination of a kiriha zukuri tanto, the same commonly associated with Cold Steel's product line, and a clip point blade.
You haven't shown a single shred of proof that Ernest Emerson didn't invent this profile first.
Maybe that's all you know Mr. Hossom. Please don't ascribe the sad limitations of your scholarship onto others. The source I've cited wasn't a magazine. I haven't cited any magazines. That's another one of your distortions.
The Knives series is one of the most definitive reference series on the custom and production knife field and has been for over twenty five years. Ken Warner's stretch as editor of the books was longer than your entire full-time knife making career to date. It was in print before you sold your first knife back in 1983 and was showcasing new knives for close to 16 years before you went "full time". You haven't shown anything that calls the quality of his work into question.
From what you've shown here, all you know is what you kind-of, sort-of remember you saw wandering around a one knife show or another. Somehow you seem to think that qualifies you to dismiss documented proof entirely on the strength of your own reputation. It doesn't.
I don't know how many times I've repeated the fact that my claim isn't an irrefutable certainty, Mr. Hossom. As I said earlier, for me to conclusively prove that Ernest Emerson truly invented the profile, I would have to show that no other knife ever made in human history ever had before he did.
As I've also mentioned, that's an impossibility. That is why I make it as a claim, not a fact. Is the distinction clear enough for you, Mr. Hossom? Are you getting it yet? Of course you are. You're being deliberately and stubbornly obtuse because you can't refute it and you don't like the conclusion.
If you feel my claim is incorrect, why don't you deliver some solid evidence disproving it?
I'm not really impressed with how many knife shows you visited, what you think you remember you saw at them, or anything else which relies on your openly biased and selective interpretation. You do have a "side" in this discussion, you've said so yourself, and so you've discredited yourself as an impartial observer.
If you feel my claim is incorrect, good for you. Maybe it is. So prove it. Post some dated and independently verifiable proof that someone other than Ernest Emerson first invented the profile.
Deliver the goods, walk the walk, or whatever else other slang the "operator" crowd likes to use.
There used to be a time when it was called "put up or shut up," and I really wish you would do one or the other.
JCaswell said:
I want someone to provide solid evidence that another maker invented and made knives using this blade profile before Ernest Emerson did. It's a kiriha zukuri tanto combined with a clip point.
It sounds so simple, doesn't it?
wolfmann601 said:
His post #472.
Jerry Hossom said:
My quote.
"There is just no question the Cold Steel and Strider blades are copied after the Emerson profile, even though a couple small changes have been made, such as the grind type or the edge angles. In point of fact, small changes tend to point to the actual intent to copy the design, look and feel of the Emerson blade profile."
That's a close paraphrase, whether he likes it or not. What he dislikes most of all both quotes are correct. Cold Steel copied Strider. Strider copied Emerson.