Cold Steel Strider rip-0ff

[Boats]

Originally Posted by wolfmann601 (I liked the unabridged version better.)

SNIP
And your bullshiit about truth not having to confront a liar. that's the typical line spewed by all keyboard Commandos. To PARAPHRASE: I am not going to call Mick a liar to his face, I am a pussy.

Call it what you want. It is undeniably pragmatic to debate one's various internet accounts of his fantastically unbelievable history, on the internet, where they occurred. Could it be that the true pussy is the one guy who won't level with the world about his past fabrications? Nah. The dude needs his worshippers.

And sir dueling is illegal but calling a spade a spade is the true way to confront liars and cheats. You run your mouth and insult with impunity here on the Internet. Please attend one of the many shows that Mick Strider attends walk right up to him and say to the man face to face the crap you have said here.

Look, you do the work and I'll go see him. About twice annually there is a huge gun and knife show at the Portland Expo Center near Jantzen Beach. I'll go ask him about the only thing that currently interests me about him, his Somalia plea bargain gone wrong. Keep me posted, I'm usually hanging out is W&S or the Political Arena, or you can PM me. There is no reason for me to be afraid of Mick Strider. Except for his quick temper, tendency for homosexual invites to perform upon him, and tremendously sketchy background, he seems like a decent enough guy.

But you are right, it takes a man to do that and we have already established you have no balls therefore you are not a man. Just another wannabe keyboard hero. No wonder this stuff never ends!!!

Nice portrayal of the party line. I find it especially rich to be called a "wannabe keyboard hero" when I am not the one running around claiming spook status, combat vet experience, or membership in one of the more hallowed units of the US Armed Forces.

BTW, this stuff never ends because a certain someone keeps revising his story.

 

[SpringfieldM1A]

Sarcasm = Lowest form of humor
Squid = Lowest form of Marine life

Oh, yeah, if any design was copied it was Bob Lum's. Emerson has gone on record asking other maker's for permission before adapting another design (Hartsfield, Walker, Terzuola, Spyderco, etc) as has Strider.

Oh yeah, and calling it a clip point tanto has to be the most assinine thing I've ever heard. It's a swedge.

Cold Steal doesn't make anything, they brand and market the knives of others, the irony is their ripoff of the Strider design was probably ripped off from some Red Chinese sweatshop who ripped off someone else.

 

[Boats]

Actually, slapstick is the lowest form of humor.
Did you know that Lt. John Kerry was in Vietnam?

 

[SpringfieldM1A]

And Pat Tilman never graduated Ranger School.

 

[Boats]

What of it? Pat Tilman never claimed to be something he was not.

 

[Keith Montgomery]

It was Cold Steel that first popularized the tanto blade with the general knife buying public back in the 1980's with the introduction of the tanto fixed blade series which is still available from Cold Steel. It wasn't Emerson, who to this day makes his single bevel grinds left handed. It wasn't Strider. It was Cold Steel. So who is copying whom? This whole thing is ridiculous.

I don't think the problem here has anything to do with two companies that are making tanto knives. The problem as far as I can see is that CS, probably purposely, directly copied (with very miniscule differences) the entire Strider design. There is nothing wrong with using design elements that are taken from knives that came before. That is how pretty well every knife is made. What is not considered acceptable is to take another maker's/manufacturer's complete design and copy it, unless permission has been obtained from the originator of the design.

 

[wolfmann601]

keith, this no longer has anything to do with CS, Strider knives, tantos, cost of S30V, or paracord wrapped handles. This is now a few folks taking potshots at Mick Strider personally. This is how these threads always end up.

I don't remember Mick ever saying he graduated from Ranger school. It is my belief Mick, as a member of the 75th, claims he is a Ranger.

If we could only keep this about knives and not the "days of our knives" stuff like this won't pop up every 8-12 months or so.

Want to talk about a true POS, talk about Vlad!!! That is one scumbucket that truly deserves to do five years of Federal time. The Feds are building a new facility in the boonies of Northern (real cold) Northern New Hampshire. Maybe we can get Vlad there for the grand opening and stay for their 1st year, 2nd year, 3rd year and 4th year anniversary.

I would love to see Vlad shovel snow.............................with a teaspoon!!!

 

[Jerry Hossom]

I'll go ask him about the only thing that currently interests me about him, his Somalia plea bargain gone wrong.

I'm not entirely sure why you're hung up on this one. It seems fairly likely to me that Mick wouldn't have mentioned it if it weren't true, since it's really unnecessary to tell his story otherwise. He said very clearly he didn't go to Somalia; he went to jail instead. Maybe it just sticks in his craw that such an offer was made, the government renegged on the deal and he spent five years of hard time to think about it. I reckon you could spend a lot of hours thinking over a five year stretch. Five years of your life instead of 1 year doing what you've always wanted to do. Not hard to make that deal. But maybe...

...A government prosecutor wouldn't lie would he?



---Why the hell can't someone here cut him just a little slack?

 

[Vaako]

Your idea of a close paraprase is skewed. Jerry wrote that CS copied Strider. He did not ever say, hint, insinuate or remark that CS AND Strider copied Emerson. Be honest will ya??

I am honest. I didn't say that Mr. Hossom wrote that CS AND Strider copied Emerson. I wrote CS AND Strider copied Emerson when I paraphrased his comment. Do you know what a "paraphrase" even is??

I re-stated Mr. Hossom's comment, used much of his same diction and sentence structure (that's the paraphrase part, since you missed it) to refocus the issue on both the copy cats.

Mr. Hossom made a good point that changing one or two small details doesnt' change the essential origin of the design. I found this particularly appropriate because some were claiming that because a Strider isn't chisel ground, that somehow makes it a totally different blade profile from an Emerson. If the Strider has a clip point, and a kiriha zukuri tanto profile, it's still derived from an Emerson.

Mr. Hossom also raised an equally good point that such minor changes magnify, rather than obscure the intent to copy. I agreed with his points, though not with his insistence to restrict the comparison to Cold Steel vs. Strider. Granted, he's biased, has admitted as much, which is why I paraphrased him.

Unlike Cold Steel and Strider, at least there's no question I've given credit to my source.

Vaako, you lied

Prove it. Put up or STFU. I've been telling you to do that for a number of things.

You can't.

You haven't.

You never will.

On this thread, you've gone from schoolyard name-calling to, now, much more adult misdeeds. The longer I keep reminding people that your friends have copied their knife profile from another maker, a reality you just can't tolerate, the worse your behavior becomes.

I'm curious to see how much rope you're going to give me.

Moderators? Is libel acceptable forum behavior?

I still you should have your eyes checked (and maybe not only eyes - sorry).... According to your logic basically all knives (based only on their grinds) would be copies of another knives. Again - if Emerson does not care (and he probably knows why) why do you?

D.

No, David. According to my logic only knives that combine the kiriha zukuri profile with a clip point blade are copies of an Emerson design. This is why I keep asking people to find one made before him.

Why do I care? Why do Strider fans care about what is said? Why does anyone care about anything?

Because there is a sickening double standard in denouncing Cold Steel for copying Strider while at the same time deliberately and repeatedly ignoring the fact that the blade on the Strider knife is also a copy, in this case I believe, of an Emerson design.

On most forums, those kinds of comments can get you in hot water.

Let's see if someone claiming "you lied" gets them into hot water. Claiming that someone lied, without any proof supporting that claim is from a legal stand point, libel.

It was Cold Steel that first popularized the tanto blade with the general knife buying public back in the 1980's with the introduction of the tanto fixed blade series which is still available from Cold Steel. It wasn't Emerson, who to this day makes his single bevel grinds left handed. It wasn't Strider. It was Cold Steel. So who is copying whom? This whole thing is ridiculous.

I think I pointed that out back on page 2. I never claimed Emerson invented the tanto. Or that he invented the folding tanto. Cold steel never combined the clip point with the "Cold Steel" style tanto. Emerson did. What's even more ridiculous is how desperately everyone wants to avoid that fact.

Nice flaming benzslrpee.

you're honestly saying that if people want to piss and moan about CS/Strider they should start with Strider/Emerson first?

Exactly. Because I claim Emerson came up with that blade style first.

how about focusing your entire argument on an esoteric detail like the different variations of a blade grind that originated in Japan several hundred years ago...you think we should focus on that first right?

Sloppy reasoning. Japanese profiles are cultural designs that evolved over time. The combination of that particular Japanese blade and a clip point hasn't been seen before Ernest Emerson. If it has, nobody has yet proven it.

everyone else on the forum (besides you) are either chuckling at the ridiculous posts that have been written, completely disgusted with the accusations thrown around or just plain tired of you harping on about your "original" Emerson tanto ad nauseam...

Everyone else on the forum hasn't delivered the goods and proven my claim wrong, either. There's been a bunch of people harping how "wrong" I am. But not a single one of them can deliver the proof to support their harping.

you are speaking for Ernie Emerson (because he obviously can't defend his own creations)

Go tell that to all the Strider defenders. Why doesn't that bother you as well. Certainly, they're vocal enough.

Double standard, once again.
----

Springfield, I've already asked others what the official term for that style of Emerson blade is. Nobody could answer that either. Incidentally, you're wrong in addition to being rude. A very bad combination. A "swedge" (according to Spyderdo's glossary) is...

Also called a false edge, it is a ground edge on the back of the blade's spine, that is chamfered, or non-sharpened. It removes weight from the blade and can change the blade's balance and penetration performance and appearance.​

It's the point of the Emerson that has the "clip", not the spine. If you want to say the clip has a sharpened swedge, you're probably right. One of the early Emerson clip pointed tanto didn't.

In case you're wondering, here's a tanto that does have a "swedge".

 

[Jerry Hossom]

Vaako said

"To closely paraphrase a very good point Mr. Hossom raised...

'There is just no question the Cold Steel and Strider blades are copied after the Emerson profile, even though a couple small changes have been made, such as the grind type or the edge angles. In point of fact, small changes tend to point to the actual intent to copy the design, look and feel of the Emerson blade profile.'"

You have attributed to me a statement with a meaning that is completely different from the statement I made. You even claimed to have "closely" paraphrased my statement. Libel, my butt. What you wrote was a gross misrepresentation of fact. I have to believe that any reasonable person, and there are many here, would have to consider that a lie by any definition.

 

[Boats]

I'm not entirely sure why you're hung up on this one. It seems fairly likely to me that Mick wouldn't have mentioned it if it weren't true, since it's really unnecessary to tell his story otherwise. He said very clearly he didn't go to Somalia; he went to jail instead. Maybe it just sticks in his craw that such an offer was made, the government renegged on the deal and he spent five years of hard time to think about it. I reckon you could spend a lot of hours thinking over a five year stretch. Five years of your life instead of 1 year doing what you've always wanted to do. Not hard to make that deal. But maybe...

...A government prosecutor wouldn't lie would he?



---Why the hell can't someone here cut him just a little slack?

I have no beef with you Mr. Hossom. In fact, I don't really have one with Mr. Strider either, insofar as him calling himself a Ranger.

That said, and you can verify it to your heart's content, using his own words, that he has:

Claimed combat experience and recanted same.
Claimed, or intimated, or let stand misimpressions that he performed black ops service, also recanted.

So what is my problem with the Somalia tale? It reeks of the same odor as the other recanted tales.

It seems fairly likely to me that Mick wouldn't have mentioned it if it weren't true, since it's really unnecessary to tell his story otherwise.

It's in fact no more necessary than the other admitted tall tales recanted elsewhere, except for one thing--it helps to maintain a certain mystique about himself.

He seems to have a nearly pathological need for such mystique, but I am no shrink, so I leave it to folks to form their own conclusions.

Ask yourself this though, does that Somalia tale make any sense to you? It doesn't to me. Here's why:

1. Mick got DX'd from the 2/75.
2. He claimed in his own words, a spinal injury so profound that it numbed his hands and feet.
3. He apparently had disciplinary problems in the regular Army and was cut loose after two years.
4. For whatever reason, he was taking a federal rap for a car theft after he got out.
5. With no discernable advanced training, with no discernable special military experience, with no discernable physical fitness to perform at an elite level any longer, and in a post Gulf-War US Army still brimming with experienced troops and not yet gutted by the Clinton Administration. . . .
6. A federal prosecutor was going to single him out for the deal of a lifetime. And then reneged.

I just don't buy it. Why would I? Why would anyone? Why, indeed, why on God's Green Earth, would the Army, or CIA, or anyone with the least bit interest in Somalia in 1993, choose to pluck a physically damaged, lightly trained, busted private, with a federal felony rap hanging over his head, and send him to help out in war torn East Africa?

It defies common sense and so I don't believe it. It might have some slight surface plausability had he not been caught embellishing his actual record before.

No slack from me. I am not trying to come off as righteous about Mr. Strider or anything like that. I just wish he'd stop spinning. There is nothing dishonorable about being an honorably discharged two year Army veteran who didn't really get the chance to do anything.

For some reason, Mick seems to think it was not enough to have tried and gotten hurt for his trouble, make amends for misdeeds, and grind apparently desireable knives. He's apparently got some deep seated need to have been something more than that.

This embellishment seems to be birds of a feather in this tale. Strider has been caught between the truth and perjury. McClung has a fake autobiography that is laugh out loud funny. Lynn Thompson makes videos like he's a sifu of some reputation.

Too much ego is a bad thing. It's pretty hilarious too.

 

[Michelle]

---Why the hell can't someone here cut him just a little slack?

In my opinion, it's because when people are unhappy with their own lives or their own selves, it is a wonderful distraction to concentrate on someone else, in a negative manner. Especially someone else who has done very well for themselves despite odds, obstacles, challenges and mistakes. It's human nature.

Look at the people who started this whole thing two years ago. Look closely at their lives, their accomplishments, and very importantly, their potential futures. You might be a little spiteful and angry of others success too if you walked in their shoes. But you won't ever walk in their shoes Jerry, because you understand performance and accountability. Most of us understand taking responsibility and blame for our failures, and then doing what we need to do to turn it around and make it right. Others are only capable of pointing the finger and blaming everyone else for their failures. And when that stops working, they use diversionary tactics and underhanded methods involving others. It's fuled by an odd mixture of self-esteem (or lack thereof), ego, laziness and sociopathy and for some greed. Interstingly though, for some, money doesn't even enter the picture. They just want to see someone who has done better than them, fall. It's sadistic and more than just a little bit weird.

When a person can't pull themselves UP to a level of high self-esteem, self-worth, and relative success, they will often resort to attempting to pull everyone else down. It's been this way for eons. It will never change either.

How lacking some of our lives must be if we have nothing better to do than try to tear apart someone we have never even met, or write a zillion pages on the specifcs of a tanto design, while liberally insulting everyone who has a dissenting opinion. Is this the only way we can feel potent?

Technology is a wonderful thing for the most part, but sometimes I don't think the internet was such a good idea after all. It has given people a free pass to say whatever they want and not be held accountable for any of it....hiding behind a screen and a made up anonymous user-name......unless of course you are a particular knifemaker who is doing well... then you are held accountable for everything you've ever done in your whole life and a bunch of things that OTHER people have done too.

What of it? Pat Tilman never claimed to be something he was not.

EDITED TO ADD: Some other people have said that Pat Tillman was not tabbed. Research on ArmyRanger.com shows this is wrong. He did graduate Ranger school. The consensus there however is that the scroll matters more than the tab as others have said here, but then again others have disputed.

m1

 

[hardheart]

Oh yeah, and calling it a clip point tanto has to be the most assinine thing I've ever heard. It's a swedge.

to stop the Strider fest for a second-this is wrong. Clip refers to a component of the profile, the outline of the blade-a swedge is a separate grind. You can have swedges on drop, spear, wharnie, etc. shapes. You manage to insult an entire branch of the US military and screw up knife terminology all in one post.

 

[Boats]

In my opinion, it's because when people are unhappy with their own lives or their own selves, it is a wonderful distraction to concentrate on someone else, in a negative manner. Especially someone else who has done very well for themselves despite odds, obstacles, challenges and mistakes. It's human nature.

We didn't build up Mick Strider to tear him down, he's done most of that himself. The rest is just reporting the outcome. I'll grant that it is human nature. It's human nature to be curious about the boasts of others. Some humans also have a desire to know the truth about someone or something.

Look at the people who started this whole thing two years ago. Look closely at their lives, their accomplishments, and very importantly, their potential futures. You might be a little spiteful and angry of others success too if you walked in their shoes.

That's delicious. I gotta say I'm a little bit envious of a guy who just just utter whatever bullshit he wants to about his past and have people lap it up. Kind of a L. Ron Hubbard vibe going there.

But you won't ever walk in their shoes Jerry, because you understand performance and accountability. Most of us understand taking responsibility and blame for our failures, and then doing what we need to do to turn it around and make it right. Others are only capable of pointing the finger and blaming everyone else for their failures. And when that stops working, they use diversionary tactics and underhanded methods involving others.

Many of us understand accountability better than does our target. Lot's of us go through pains to make sure that our biographies and resumes are accurate and not full of puffery. In my profession, one is required to undergo a thorough background check. Even if I wanted to, I cannot hold myself forth as someone I am not.

It's fuled by an odd mixture of self-esteem (or lack thereof), ego, laziness and sociopathy and for some greed. Interstingly though, for some, money doesn't even enter the picture. They just want to see someone who has done better than them, fall. It's sadistic and more than just a little bit weird.

If those are the motivations of a critic, then what, pray tell, are the motivations of a groupie? Certainly you have some cunning insights on that topic?

When a person can't pull themselves UP to a level of high self-esteem, self-worth, and relative success, they will often resort to attempting to pull everyone else down. It's been this way for eons. It will never change either.

I gotta say you are on to something here, even if for the wrong reasons. People are always interested in exposing a fraud. That will never change.

How lacking some of our lives must be if we have nothing better to do than try to tear apart someone we have never even met, or write a zillion pages on the specifcs of a tanto design, while liberally insulting everyone who has a dissenting opinion. Is this the only way we can feel potent?

I verbally tear people apart for a living. It's part of my job. Here, it's just a hobby. What's pathetic is this: If Mick is such a successful and emotionally secure winner, why the need to lie about himself? Such is not the hallmark of the well-adjusted.

Technology is a wonderful thing for the most part, but sometimes I don't think the internet was such a good idea after all. It has given people a free pass to say whatever they want and not be held accountable for any of it....hiding behind a screen and a made up anonymous user-name......unless of course you are a particular knifemaker who is doing well... then you are held accountable for everything you've ever done in your whole life and a bunch of things that OTHER people have done too.

I am not commenting on knife design. As for the character assassination, Mick is the one leaving all of the loaded guns laying about while wearing a "Shoot Me" sign with neon lettering.

Pat Tilman called himself a Ranger. I supposed you don't think he was one either though.

Reading comprehension is your friend. I have not been claiming Mick is or was not a Ranger. I have only said that such status is in dispute. I have not been doing that disputing other than to ask some basic questions as to how the Rangers themselves identify one of their own.

Whatever the case on that point, it is certainly being laid bare that the guy didn't, and doesn't, live up to the code.

 

[WORKER#9]

"I verbally tear people apart for a living. It's part of my job. Here, it's just a hobby." ----BOATS-----



Dude, you really need a new hobby...

And for the verbally tearing people apart...:yawn: :barf: :jerkit: WEAK!!!!

 

[Vaako]

You have attributed to me a statement with a meaning that is completely different from the statement I made.

No, Mr. Hossom, I have not. You did not write the following passage. I did:

"There is just no question the Cold Steel and Strider blades are copied after the Emerson profile, even though a couple small changes have been made, such as the grind type or the edge angles. In point of fact, small changes tend to point to the actual intent to copy the design, look and feel of the Emerson blade profile."

Those are my words, I have never said that statement is yours. It is not. Therefore I have not attributed that statement to you.

What you wrote was the following:

There is just no question the CS knife is copied after the Strider look, even though a couple small changes have been made, such as the angled butt on the handle. In point of fact, small changes tend to point to the actual intent to copy the design, look and feel of the Strider knife.

I believe you have some serious confusion over what a paraphrase is.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/paraphrase

1 : a restatement of a text, passage, or work giving the meaning in another form​

I re-wrote your remark, using your sentence structure, your syntax, etc. to expand on your point. As such, your words were given another form, in mine. That's a paraphrase and because I deliberately used so much of your writing style, it's a close paraphrase.

However, I never contradicted your original comment in my paraphrase because it's true! Cold Steel copied Strider. That's true. It's also true that slight changes show the intent to copy the design. That's also true. We both agree.

What I have done is expand the number of imitator companies to include Strider. I have also shown that what you said about Cold Steel copying Strider also applies to Strider copying Ernest Emerson.

I know you don't agree with that. Mick's your friend. Your disagreement, however, neither proves nor disproves my paraphrased statement.

Here are a number of parallel definitions of "paraphrase"

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:paraphrase&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

In every case, the emphasis is putting someone else's words and ideas into one's own. Your original comment focused only on Cold Steel copying Strider and that slight changes do not alter the fact that it's a copy. I agree with your comment. That's why I paraphrased it.

My comment focused on Cold Steel and Strider copying someone else: Ernest Emerson. I also emphasized that slight changes do not alter the fact that Cold Steel and Strider's blades are copies of Emerson. That's been my point all along.

What you wrote was a gross misrepresentation of fact.

No Mr. Hossom it is not. Cold Steel did copy Strider. However, it is also true that Strider copied Emerson, whom I believe is the originator of that blade profile. If he is not, then no one has shown otherwise in 27 pages of discussion on this thread or on the thread I started on this subject.

So it is not a "gross misrepresentation" of fact. The fact is neither you nor anyone else has shown any evidence that my claim is false. No one has shown Emerson didn't invent that profile first.

Annnnnd...

Therefore, your statement that I "lied" is false. Please retract it.
--------------

@hardheart

:thumbup:

--------------

@ Michelle

A number of people have been "liberally insulting" each other. However, only a select narrow aspect of it merits your attention. You haven't denounced the fellow calling other forum members "retards" and "weasels", have you? How about the "poet"? You've been mute about that.

So, it's not liberal insults or "tearing down" that seems to bother you as much as who's doing it.

The same can be said of knife companies copying the hard work and inventions of others.

How selective the indigntation is on this thread.

 

[Blade Junky]

I'm really having problems (although I should know better having witnessed previous examples) believing how sordidly low this thread has has become. Any redeeming value (though there wasn't much to begin with) that this thread might've had has been totally drowned out with the constant babbling and meaningless drivel exhibited by several individuals whose only obvious goal is to climb out of the muck of life and to raise themselves to the level of an ambulance chasing lawyer as that far surpasses their current status in life. Michelle and Jerry, you're really wasting your time as these individuals are arguing for the sake of arguing and could really care less about anything other than trying to impress others with their hollow and extremely boring debating skills, such as they are...

 

[Boats]

"I verbally tear people apart for a living. It's part of my job. Here, it's just a hobby." ----BOATS-----



Dude, you really need a new hobby...

And for the verbally tearing people apart...:yawn: :barf: :jerkit: WEAK!!!!

Whatever. I have several hobbies. Funny how people who think a face-to-face encounter is somehow courageous slink away from a tiff on the internet.

 

[Boats]

I'm really having problems (although I should know better having witnessed previous examples) believing how sordidly low this thread has has become. Any redeeming value (though there wasn't much to begin with) that this thread might've had has been totally drowned out with the constant babbling and meaningless drivel exhibited by several individuals whose only obvious goal is to climb out of the muck of life and to raise themselves to the level of an ambulance chasing lawyer as that far surpasses their current status in life. Michelle and Jerry, you're really wasting your time as these individuals are arguing for the sake of arguing and could really care less about anything other than trying to impress others with their hollow and extremely boring debating skills, such as they are...

Actually, some of us want to know the unvarnished truth. However, none of "da haters" are holding their breath waiting for it either.

 

[Blade Junky]

slink away from a tiff on the internet.

Isn't that known as not feeding the trolls?