Cold Steel Strider rip-0ff

[Spark]

Michelle, thanks for addressing my issues with accessing Badlands. I'll answer your questions

Spark. What's your bias? Just curious. I'm curious why you, as the owner of this place, have such a bias against Strider knives?

Please don't mischaracterize my position as a "bias against Strider knives" because it is anything but.

My bias, as it were, is against lies & deception.
As an intelligent man, I am biased against people who expect me to believe a bs story when evidence is provided disproving it.
As a veteran, I'm especially biased by people who lie about their service, claim combat action, and special qualifications that they didn't earn because it insults my service time and what I did. I'm extremely biased against those who use claims of Special Operations & combat experience to sell products named after REAL HEROS who died in the service of their country.
As a firearms owner, concealed carry advocate and machinegun & suppressor collector, I'm extremely biased against convicted felons claiming that they are carrying firearms on a regular basis.
As the owner of this site, I'm extremely biased against people who lie to me, and my members about their backgrounds and make a mockery out of this industry.

In a perfect world we would get a response here from not only Mick, but maybe Chris Osman too. Of course it would be nice to hear from Lynn Thompson.. but he never posts under his own name. Kevin McClung? Ditto... only posts under his name in his "very" controlled environment of TF, where people who disagree with him are not allowed.

I'd love to see a response here from Mick. I've been amazingly polite about this situation, and would love nothing better to have the facts nailed down straight from the horses mouth.

I'd love to see Chris post about his situation with this as well. Unfortunately I don't think that's going to happen based on my communications with him. As far as he's concerned, the past between him and Mick Strider was taken care of when Mick Strider agreed to settlement... or so he said.

NOTHING will be accomlished here short of some of the principle players coming i n here and addressing this.

Oh, I very much disagree. We're hashing out what is and is not possible based on the evidence provided. We're providing documentation of past claims, public record, and supporting evidence. We're getting this out in the open. Quite a lot is happening.

So, at the end of the day gentlemen... what's the point? There are about 4 people out there still jumping up and down. What do you need? People want Micks dates of service. His DD214 was posted. Does that not suffice? How many people need to be spoonfed the information? How come more people like SkinnyDale aren't out there getting it?

With all due respect, I have not seen this DD214 in question. The one I did see has almost every field redacted, including the service times, final rank, and more.

Do you have a direct link for this DD214 so that I might review it?

And DocArnie (DentistAlmostArnie)...... hilarious post man. EVERYONE knows the history of that article and that there were recants done by both the writer and the editor for errors. Maybe that information hasnt made it out there yet.... way accross the pond.

Oh, ok, I didn't know this. Where are the recants and retractions? If it's so messed up, why is it available for download off Badlands? What about the other magazine articles in American Handgunner et al that list Special Operations backgrounds?

If this information is incorrect, HOW IS IT GETTING REPEATED SO MANY TIMES WITHOUT MAGAZINES FINALLY CATCHING ON? If every magazine writer is wrong, where are they pulling the information out of? Especially with it all being the same content? If someone is going to make a big deal about their Special Operations background, why is so difficult to get them to pin down any details.

Here, I'll go first - I was in the Army from 1991-1994. I ended my service as an E-4 and my DD214 reflects this. I have HONORABLE discharges from my time in service and the IRR. I served for 1 tour in Korea, and then was PCSed to Ft. Bragg. During my service I was never deployed to a combat zone, I am not a combat veteran. Military.com pulls up the units I served in, again, nothing special. But, I am not claiming to be some high speed low drag operator. I'm just a vet, expressing concerns about the claims someone else has made about their service history

 

[DocArnie]

As a firearms owner, concealed carry advocate and machinegun & suppressor collector, I'm extremely biased against convicted felons claiming that they are carrying firearms on a regular basis.

I have another fitting Strider quote:

I would like to get an SV pistol some time though and try it out for carry. My hand is large enough for double stacked 45.

Ooops.

 

[Boats]

(but the long and the short of things are that you can be a combat vet withoug being in the direct employ of a US Military group).

I'm sure you'll be giving us these verifiable details soon enough.

While you're at it, please track down those medal citations Mr. Mayo thought Mick possessed.

Boats - you're an attorney. Color me surprised.

I don't hide the fact.

I am glad you take great glee in "verbally tearing people apart" on a daily basis. You must be a very happy person.

"Glee" is a little strong to describe professional satisfaction in taking child support deadbeats to the cleaners. The odd death threat spices it up some though.

I would assume, however, that you do your due diligence before you enter a court of law. Or do you rely merely on the information given to you by your client, and then run with it? Or do you rely merely on the information your client DOESN'T give you and then run with it? Or do you rely merely on the information the Defendant doesn't voluntarily relinquish and then run with it?

Usually, someone's own documents and prior inconsistent statements do them in. Say, isn't there a variation of that going on in this thread? We're not in court by the way.

Do you rely on hearsay?

As someone who has been known to admit some passing familiarity with the law, you're probably well aware that statements made by a principal party are excepted from the hearsay rules. Mick's own words damn him. I just connect dots.

Do you rely on documentation that is unsubstanciated or uncertified?

As you know, if a proper foundation can be laid, almost any document is legally admissible. Are you suggesting that someone has been impersonating Mick Strider across four or five forums and in various print articles?

Do you "verbally tear apart people on a daily basis" based on what "your client heard on the internet"?

I haven't misquoted Mick Strider. The people reading this thread will weigh things for themselves.

Do you tell the judge "Your honor... I believe the Petitioner because the defendant's story, to me, sounds like bullshit"?

We gussie up the language a might bit, and refer back to the introduced evidence and the live testimony, but what you wrote is essentially the nutshell of every closing argument ever made. Good job.

Do you go in Ex Parte to declare bullshit based soley your "sixth sense, perceptions, and perceived incredibly high IQ"?

Prolly not.

No. The most sound tactic is to let the liar hang himself in open court after being given plenty of rope. Hmmm. Again that sounds a lot like what has been going on here, except the court part of course.

SNIP

NOTHING will be accomlished here short of some of the principle players coming i n here and addressing this. And even then, like Vakko, people will accuse them of being disingenuine or liars if the post doesn't fit their preconceived desire of what it should say.

It's been settled to my satisfaction that EE doesn't believe Strider ripped off his designs. Then again, most of us were never debating this, only whether Lynn Thompson's douchebaggery was unwarranted or not.

Over-the-top? Certainly. Untrue? Hardly.

So, at the end of the day gentlemen... what's the point? There are about 4 people out there still jumping up and down. What do you need? People want Micks dates of service. His DD214 was posted. Does that not suffice? How many people need to be spoonfed the information? How come more people like SkinnyDale aren't out there getting it?

Apparently SkinnyDale didn't get it. I read that Mogadishu Mick was not tabbed, that he was physically DX'd. SkinnyDale says there's a graduation photo from Ranger School. Since nothing confirming anything about SkinnyDale's account of things was presented, that's all a bunch of typing as far as I am concerned.

And DocArnie (DentistAlmostArnie)...... hilarious post man. EVERYONE knows the history of that article and that there were recants done by both the writer and the editor for errors. Maybe that information hasnt made it out there yet.... way accross the pond.

Certainly someone at Badlands could produce a scan of said retractions. Serious reporters and editors do that in writing you know.

If that's too much trouble just give me a date and I'll find my own back issue.

My personal interest in this is to put it to rest. Third party denials, half-assed refutations without proof, and a litany of personal attacks ain't getting it done.

 

[NorthStarXO]

Ah, now Andy that's just a little over the top, don't you think?

I am NOT Andy and no I don't think it's over the top. How many knives look like other people's knives with slight modifications. There's everyone complainin' about it all the time with the exception of the custom guys but there was a thread recently about a "custom" make who was using kits and dressing them up and selling them for 10X cost.

My point is that Lynn saw a knife design that was popular and created a less expensive version, different steel, difference finish, same shape. I don't think that they're exactly identical by any means. He took a design and made his version.

And he was NOT a Ranger, nor was he EVER a Ranger. Go to military.com, sign up for an account, look him up using his "real" name. He was never a Ranger.

 

[STR]

And he was NOT a Ranger, nor was he EVER a Ranger. Go to military.com, sign up for an account, look him up using his "real" name. He was never a Ranger.

Define "He" please. Are you speaking there about Lynn or Mick? Sorry if it sounds like a stupid question. You flow from "He took a design and then made his own version" and then next paragraph to, "and no he was not a Ranger...."

STR

 

[NorthStarXO]

Mick.

As far as I know I've never seen anything about Lynn's service or lack of. And this isn't about Lynn anyway.

 

[Monocrom]

...... And this isn't about Lynn anyway.

With all due respect, if he didn't make such a blatant copy of a Strider knife and advertise it the way he did; this thread wouldn't exist.

 

[jokrswylde]

I'm pretty sure it would come up regardless of CS. It seems to be a hot button issue.

 

[Ken Brock]

And this isn't about Lynn anyway.

Actually, if you look up the original thread title it WAS about Lynn

 

[Jim G.]

With all due respect, if he didn't make such a blatant copy of a Strider knife and advertise it the way he did; this thread wouldn't exist.

As I stated earlier in this thread. i am glad it came up. I dont buy CS knives and from reading about Mick I won't be buying Striders either unless someone can answer my simple question.

I could give a crap about him being an ex-con. If he misrepresented himself as far as his military career goes that is a big deal to me. As a vet myself I find it unfanthamable that someone would lie, embellish, distort (insert word of choice) his own military credentials in order to make a buck off of those who have and/ or are now serving their country so honerably. If he has done this, and so far the evidence says he has he deserves to rot in that special part of hell reserved for baby killers, child molesters, and puppy torturers for his misreprentations make him no better in my book.
I ask simple questions and all I get is double speak, From experience I know when someone is continually skirting the issue it is because they know they are misrepresenting the facts.

 

[Boats]

It was also about "dissing Strider."

Linked to the dissing:

Please don’t throw away hundreds and hundreds of dollars on similar knives sold by convicted felons and rip off artists posing as elite “military operators”. Get the real G.I. Tanto from Cold Steel and get more than your money’s worth.

This thread is on track IMO.

Lynn has no shame.
It isn't possible to "diss" Strider about being a "military operator."

 

[Jim G.]

It was also about "dissing Strider."

Linked to the dissing:


Quote:

Please don’t throw away hundreds and hundreds of dollars on similar knives sold by convicted felons and rip off artists posing as elite “military operators”. Get the real G.I. Tanto from Cold Steel and get more than your money’s worth.

This thread is on track IMO.

Lynn has no shame.
It isn't possible to "diss" Strider about being a "military operator."

It wasn't about Strider at all till the origional poster who must be a Strider fan recognised the description of his hero and named him specifically. CS ad copy does not mention Strider or Strider knives by name.

Look it this blatant rip off. then he even says it, and disses Strider.. http://www.coldsteel.com/80ft.html.

 

[wolfmann601]

That's what it comes down to, isn't it. What business is it of ours whether there's any truth to his advertising or not? Why should we care whether we're doing business with a hero or a liar?

So we do background checks on every knife maker/maufacturer out there?

This is not about the advertising or business. If you think the man is a Coward, poser or liar never buy a Strider and make sure you tell all your friends never to buy one either. There are lots of great production knives out there.

That should end it one would think. If you decide never ever to buy a Strider and advise all your friends the same and you have done so because of his Military record (or lack of) why continue?

There comes a point when it no longer is truth seeking, it's down right persecution.

That point been reached, this is not productive guys.....................

 

[NorthStarXO]

I meant is wasn't about Lynn Thompson's military service. The thread turned that way and I still think it's f-in' funny as hell what Cold Steel put out there. It's the truth and since when is putting out a better product or in this case a more affordable product a sin? It's the American way! And even worse since when did truth in advertising become a bad thing.

Some people can't stand when the truth comes out about them or their idols. Or when it lowers the values of their collection?

 

[Jim G.]

Now back to the important stuff so we can put this thread to rest.

1) When was Mick Strider in the Military?
2) When if ever did he work spec-ops as a member of a contract group as alluded to by Michelle?
3) Can someone post or list the issue that the retraction of the article DocArnie posted earlier happened in as Michelle posted it did?

 

[Vaako]

Vaako, please give this issue a rest. At this point no one is going to be convinced. I appreciate your points, and some of them have merit. If you would like to have a discussion on knife designs being stolen, copied, or borrowed from each other, please use the Blade Discussion Forum for it from this point on.

I won't refer to it again on this thread. You have my word on that.

In essence it ceased to be an issue on page 28 which is why, out of respect for Mr. Emerson, I agreed to abide by his opinion on the issue.

It seems that wasn't good enough for some folks. Some are choosing to turn Mr. Emerson's clarification into something it's not. They seem to have the same problem with a number of posts, both their own and mine.

As the site owner, if you mean, "stop posting on this thread at all", just say so and I'll immediately comply.
----------------

First of all, I never "alluded to" anything regarding this issue.I stated the fact that a lot of knife makers, especially those who are friends, are in close communication with each other and make sure they are not stepping on each other toes, even if one's design has A similarity in some respect to anothers.

No. That's not what you originally said, Michelle, and you most definitely alluded to something else as well. Thank God for a forum, it clarifies selective memories and reinterpretations.

SO, I am really confused at this point because Mick, Duane and Ernest are....... all friends. Not just that, they are in talks right now about a possible collaboration in the near future.

That's what you said. They're friends and possibly future business partners. Friends and potential business partners make sure they don't step on each other's toes, as you put it.

That's what I was alluding to: your remarks in post #164.

you have to insult Your Hero Mr. Emerson, by ALLUDING to the fact that he is being disingenuous, covering something up, or lying.

First, I respect Mr. Emerson, that doesn't make him my hero. Second, I'm not claiming he's being disingenuous at all, nor am I insulting him. He's stated that the owners of Strider are his friends both personally and professionally. Third, he's also stated his belief that Strider hasn't copied his design and that he doesn't want any divisive issues generated.

in a letter to Kieth Montgomery Please resist the urge to create conflict between us, as there is none.

That is why I said, "I fully understand why Ernest Emerson said what he did, Michelle alluded to as much several pages back, and out of my own personal respect for the man I'll abide by it."

You have claimed a few pages back that Ernest Emerson and Strider are friends and potentially collaborating on something. Ernest Emerson has confirmed his friendship and asked that individuals (meaning me) "resist the urge to create conflict between us, as there is none."

Out of my respect for Mr. Emerson, I agreed to drop the issue which is why I said, "out of my own personal respect for the man I'll abide by it."

I'm not implying he's covering anything up. That's what you're implying I said, for reasons of your own.

Is that simple enough?

 

[Cougar Allen]

So we do background checks on every knife maker/maufacturer out there?

We check up on everybody who tells wild stories, even if they're just ordinary members and not makers or manufacturers or dealers. I don't think we ever mentioned it to you, Wolfmann, but when you first joined Bladeforums one of the moderators thought your personal story sounded a little wild so he investigated. It only took him a few minutes to confirm that everything you'd said was perfectly true (understated, actually). That's the way it usually works with the truth; it's very easy to confirm. Lies, though ... lies are different ...

 

[Spark]

We don't run detailed background checks on everyone, or even anyone in particular, lets get that clear. However, if something sounds like bullshit, you can't blame anyone for questioning it's veracity and doing some digging, right? That seems to be the case here as well. Public records, and publically made statements are a double edged sword.

 

[Grayscouts]

This thread started as Lynn stealing designs from Strider. So whoever started this thread, opened it up for people to discuss Strider Knives and Mickey Ray Burger.

I agree with Spark on this, as a veteran I despise any veteran or arm chair warrior making up past military service to hype up himself or his product.

For one, if anyone here who really believes that a E1 Private, who never was a Ranger, but a Paratrooper, and then gets kicked out of the military, and then our military could not find enough volunteers from the Special Operations Command to get sent to a HOSTILE area, so they call a kicked out PRIVATE to come save the day. Does this make sense? If it smells like SHIT, it ain't a ROSE.

MICKEY RAY BURGER's DOD file has his MOS as 11B1P (Infantryman, Paratrooper Qualified). If he was a RANGER it would be 11B1V. Going thru RIP does NOT make a RANGER, going thru Ranger school and earning the TAB is what makes a RANGER. Being scrolled, which is nothing but a unit patch, does NOT make a RANGER. If you have the scroll and are then sent to 2ID, you don't keep the scroll on your uniform. Its the TAB that says you are a RANGER. Our military has hundreds of Special Operatives with more than 2 years service and hundreds of hours of training, and we are to believe that a E1 PRIVATE is called upon to SAVE the WORLD?????

I have known Rangers and Special Forces Operatives thru the years, and one of the first things I learned about these gentlemen, is they are career military individuals. They are not kicked out of the Army after 2 years. It takes years to make a Special Operations Operative. If Mickey Ray had earned a RANGER TAB, it would be on his DOD file. Even if he got kicked out after receiving it, they DO NOT take the designation away from his MOS.

All these people defending Mickey Ray just shows that a sucker is born everyday.

Paul

 

[Boats]

So we do background checks on every knife maker/maufacturer out there?

Did you run out of 2x4s? Your zeal for castigating frauds seems to have inexplicably ebbed in this thread in the GB&U.

This is not about the advertising or business.

Yes, it is. Almost uniquely so. Hardcore individuals ought to be up for a scrape anyways.

If you think the man is a Coward, poser or liar never buy a Strider and make sure you tell all your friends never to buy one either. There are lots of great production knives out there.

Yes there are. But there are also recurrent threads about SKI. Why not have a one stop clearinghouse on the various issues?

That should end it one would think. If you decide never ever to buy a Strider and advise all your friends the same and you have done so because of his Military record (or lack of) why continue?

Because Mick is constantly "updating" his bio? Just one reason among many to see this through.

There comes a point when it no longer is truth seeking, it's down right persecution.

Since the truth isn't out yet, we're not in persecution territory yet.

That point been reached, this is not productive guys.....................

It's not productive for the subjects of the thread. This thread obviously distracts them from further fiction writing.

This thread is very instructive for the forum community.