Compact tacticaL hawk...

Senserazer said:
Baby hawk, is that the 10 3/4inch version? Or an even smaller one not on their websites?
I'm asking because I'm looking for a concealable EDC hawk. Been looking at both the WK II Hunter's Axe (for the size) and the WK II Winkler/Sayoc RnD Compact Hawk. Recommendations? Edwood, you're the guru on this subject as far as I'm concerned.
I want a hawk that I can primarily use for bushcraft etc. (why I am leaning towards the hunter), but I also want it to be useful in a self defense situation should I ever be unlucky enough to need it. Truth be told there are other things I would rather carry for a self-def item, but knives, pepper spray, volt emitting devices, handguns, all are outlawed here. An axe is still considered a tool though. As long as the cutting edge is no more than 12cm (4.7")
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I would go with the Camp axe myself. The blunt force trauma that can be caused by the hammer side of the axe is something to think about.

And since it looks more like a tool than a weapon, it has de added advantage of being discreet.
Whatever you end up getting, you need to get a training version of the axe you’re going to be using. If you ever have to use it as a weapon it’s better to know at least how it handles. Get some training.


[video=youtube;MOeB2yMU_q8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOeB2yMU_q8[/video]

The hanging log is the best tool for training with a hawk I have used. Thank you Mr. McLemore


Let the enemy come till he's almost close enough to touch, then let him have it and jump out and finish him up with
your hatchet.
--MAJOR ROBERT ROGERS, 1759
 
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Edwood7 said:
I would go with the Camp axe myself. The blunt force trauma that can be caused by the hammer side of the axe is something to think about.

And since it looks more like a tool than a weapon, it has de added advantage of being discreet.
Whatever you end up getting, you need to get a training version of the axe you’re going to be using. If you ever have to use it as a weapon it’s better to know at least how it handles. Get some training.
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The "less threatening" appearance of the hunter was also one of the things I considered. Also, in a self defense situation, where ideally I just hurt my opponent enough that he doesn't hurt me, I think the hammer will serve me better than the spike. I don't have the concern of body armor and the like, and the goal is not to cripple the person.
I'll be going with the shorter camper one though, the hunter, for EDC carry purposes, I'll just have to cope with the length for chopping wood.

On a side note: Do any of you have knowledge of a good european tomahawk smith? As I live in europe US import is rather costly, though I think a Winkler is well worth it?
 
I like my Demko Hawk.

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http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/990496-Demko-Hawk-in-Afghanistan
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...959-Demko-Hawk
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...teel-Tomahawks
 
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Edwood7, I have another question about the hawk in your picture. Isn't that a KG finish with wooden handles? It says on Winkler's website that he can't do a KG finish on an axe with wooden scales, how did you go about that? :)
Thanks in advance!
 
Senserazer said:
Edwood7, I have another question about the hawk in your picture. Isn't that a KG finish with wooden handles? It says on Winkler's website that he can't do a KG finish on an axe with wooden scales, how did you go about that? :)
Thanks in advance!
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Its a Caswell finsh.
 
Okay then I get it! :)

I just ordered the Hunter's Axe and a Bet knife (grinded down to 4 1/2" blade, for legal purposes). How am I supposed to wait 6-12 weeks?! :D hahah! I'm looking forward to it!
 
I have been thinking, and I would suggest that you take a closer look at Dan's Camp Axe. The Hunter's Axe is only 9" long, that's very short. IMO, it's more for hunters that need to cut through a pelvis, carry large loads and/or their kill. It's compact for less space and weight.
OTOH, the Camp Axe is 14" long, that's an entire extra grip on the handle. I've used the Sayoc a little bit, and it seems like it's heft would help it chop, add another inch and a larger bit, and the extra mass of the hammer and you have a serious chopper for the size.
I've owned two 11.5" hatchets/hawks they are both very light as well. One of those was bought for backpacking, and it sucked at chopping. I had to work my ass off just to get through a 5-6" piece of wood. The other is the RMJ Jenny Wren, another compact lightweight fighting hawk. It's thicker and heavier than my little Western, and I think it can chop better, but it's still too light for bushcraft, IMO.
I just can't imagine that a 9" long hawk/hatchet/axe will be enough for bushcraft. I would suggest talking with Dan a little more about it, even call him directly. He'll steer you in the right direction. Besides the Camp Axe is only $60 US more, and still compact enough to carry on your person.
 
foxx said:
I have been thinking, and I would suggest that you take a closer look at Dan's Camp Axe. The Hunter's Axe is only 9" long, that's very short. IMO, it's more for hunters that need to cut through a pelvis, carry large loads and/or their kill. It's compact for less space and weight.
OTOH, the Camp Axe is 14" long, that's an entire extra grip on the handle. I've used the Sayoc a little bit, and it seems like it's heft would help it chop, add another inch and a larger bit, and the extra mass of the hammer and you have a serious chopper for the size.
I've owned two 11.5" hatchets/hawks they are both very light as well. One of those was bought for backpacking, and it sucked at chopping. I had to work my ass off just to get through a 5-6" piece of wood. The other is the RMJ Jenny Wren, another compact lightweight fighting hawk. It's thicker and heavier than my little Western, and I think it can chop better, but it's still too light for bushcraft, IMO.
I just can't imagine that a 9" long hawk/hatchet/axe will be enough for bushcraft. I would suggest talking with Dan a little more about it, even call him directly. He'll steer you in the right direction. Besides the Camp Axe is only $60 US more, and still compact enough to carry on your person.
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I did consider the camping axe, but the thing is that I am also gonna want to be able to carry the axe concealed under clothing at times, and that's gonna be hard with a 14" tool. I totally agree that chopping wood with a 9" axe is WAY more demanding than with a 14" one, there is a reason they have the length. For the bushcraft I will be doing I think the Hunter's axe will manage just fine though. Ideally I would have liked it to be 11" (of course in between, go figure..bah) as the Sayoc compact, but for a bushcraft tool the Sayoc wasn't even an option for me, looks way too menacing.
Did you deal with Dan before? Would he make me an 11" Hunter's axe do you reckon? As whatever extra cost of course, but does he makes those kind of orders?
Thanks!
 
I have only placed two orders with Dan. He was able to do some custom modifications, thicker edge sort of thing. But, you're talking about changing a CNC program, you should talk to Dan to see if that possible. He could shorten a Camp Axe, just cut it down, but a change in the balance and handle would make it a different axe.
IMO, what you are talking about doing means you need two hawks/axes. You want a short hawk, not menacing, for concealed carry. And, another hawk or camp tool for chopping. Maybe you just need to look for a wood's axe, boy's axe, Council Tools Hudson Bay, or a GB Short Forest Axe type of chopper? This will be obvious once you get the Hunter's Axe and try chopping with it. Then you'll know if you want a longer handled, and heavier chopping axe for your bushcraft. Good news, you can get used boy's axes on E-bay for cheap, or spend even more to get a new, but quite nice, modern example. Win, win either way you go.
 
I can definitely get a fairly cheap and decent, regular, hatchet from my local hardware store if need be, but I reckon the Hunter's will do me just fine. I'm not bailing out to Siberia, I'm just gonna do some light bushcraft in my spare time! ;)
 
Could anyone recommend a full tang hawk for less than $300 that would be of decent quality? Also, why are full tang hawks so much more than even some custom knives?
 
VolundoftheForge said:
Could anyone recommend a full tang hawk for less than $300 that would be of decent quality? Also, why are full tang hawks so much more than even some custom knives?
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Full tang hawks are longer, have more handle material, more steel, longer sheets of steel can cost more. Some are cut using CNC machines, then the handles are skeletonized, and/or tapered. I suspect there is just more time and energy put into a hawk, and the weight(balance and mass distribution) is more critical than that of a knife.

There's so many types of hawks, you have to pick what you want it to do, Chop, Break, or fight?
The GG&G Battlehawk can be had for $200, but it's 44oz, and made for breaching. Same with the S&W hawk, the Benchmade hawk, and even the Ontario RD Hawk, all breachers. The edges are so thick, that they'll never chop wood, as they come new.
Omnivore Bladeworks/Self Reliance Tools has some models that are about $350 or so, check them out for sure. Also look at what JK Knives has made, he's got some interesting designs.
Another maker, here on Bladeforums, is Broe. His hawks look very capable, and I'm quite sure they are quality, it's just a matter of what you want. Your style and needs are a big part of what you'll choose.
 
foxx said:
Full tang hawks are longer, have more handle material, more steel, longer sheets of steel can cost more. Some are cut using CNC machines, then the handles are skeletonized, and/or tapered. I suspect there is just more time and energy put into a hawk, and the weight(balance and mass distribution) is more critical than that of a knife.

There's so many types of hawks, you have to pick what you want it to do, Chop, Break, or fight?
The GG&G Battlehawk can be had for $200, but it's 44oz, and made for breaching. Same with the S&W hawk, the Benchmade hawk, and even the Ontario RD Hawk, all breachers. The edges are so thick, that they'll never chop wood, as they come new.
Omnivore Bladeworks/Self Reliance Tools has some models that are about $350 or so, check them out for sure. Also look at what JK Knives has made, he's got some interesting designs.
Another maker, here on Bladeforums, is Broe. His hawks look very capable, and I'm quite sure they are quality, it's just a matter of what you want. Your style and needs are a big part of what you'll choose.
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I kind of want a "do it all" like the Winkler, something I can use to defend myself but also pry a door off it's hinges with. :D
 
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