CRK Sebenza Problem

[benjaminw11]

nothing

 

[cotdt]

Nope.

Its a frame lock for starters.

I know what a frame lock is. Do you?

Benjamin, how much up and down blade play is there?

 

[coolhand68]

Perhaps judgment of CRK should be reserved until someone from his shop has a chance to chime in. It's always good to hear both sides of the issue before dog piling on either end. CRK has an outstanding rep, are some of you prepared to throw him under the bus based on one testimony?

 

[Tripton]

I know what a frame lock is. Do you?

Benjamin, how much up and down blade play is there?

You show me where the liner is on a Sebenza and I will answer your question.

 

[The Government]

I've heard of the "flicking" voiding the warranty but I've never heard of CRK actually using that policy. It seems they may be starting to do so.

I remember reading a post where Mr. Reeve talked about how some of his employees would spend hours adjusting the lockbar tension on a knife that came in for warranty until it was back in its sweet spot. Hours = money and with the economy we're in I'd imagine that there aren't a lot of people out there dropping $300-$400 on a knife. Everybody is trying to save money.

Also there is nothing wrong with benjaminw11's post, he's actually been quite calm and to the point.

I can see what you are saying economically, but as far as long term interests CRK made a bad decision. He is only going to save so much money by not fixing this knife compared to how much money he will lose when people learn about this -especially if it continues. The long term losses are substantial. Just this thread has given me the jidders about CRK as a whole.

They say one dissatisfied customer will loose you at least 25-30 customers when "the net" is informed. Does the cost of fixing one knife equal the loss of 25-30 customers and the hit on CRK's reputation -I doubt it, and I don't think I will ever consider a CRK unless this thread takes a drastic turn for the better. -just saying.

 

[Tripton]

I can see what you are saying economically, but as far as long term interests CRK made a bad decision. He is only going to save so much money by not fixing this knife compared to how much money he will lose when people learn about this -especially if it continues. The long term losses are substantial. Just this thread has given me the jidders about CRK as a whole.

They say one dissatisfied customer will loose you at least 25-30 customers when "the net" is informed. Does the cost of fixing one knife equal the loss of 25-30 customers and the hit on CRK's reputation -I doubt it, and I don't think I will ever consider a CRK unless this thread takes a drastic turn for the better. -just saying.

So why is there always 25-30 people that get the jitters out of a mere mention of such an experience, with no substantial evidence to back it up?

 

[cotdt]

You show me where the liner is on a Sebenza and I will answer your question.

I meant the lockbar. It needs to be adjusted.

So why is there always 25-30 people that get the jitters out of a mere mention of such an experience, with no substantial evidence to back it up?

What kind of evidence are you looking for? How would you feel if you were in Benjamin's shoes?

 

[Tripton]

I meant the lockbar. It needs to be adjusted.

Yep. Make it longer.

Problem solved.





Unless of course, you meant peening it. That is not something that a normal person can do without destroying a knife.

 

[benjaminw11]

I meant the lockbar. It needs to be adjusted.



What kind of evidence are you looking for? How would you feel if you were in Benjamin's shoes?

I appreciate the sympathy. Thanks man.

 

[Tripton]

What kind of evidence are you looking for? How would you feel if you were in Benjamin's shoes?

Do you just believe everything that you read on the internet?


I could come in here and complain about how the lockup sucked of my reputable company knife when I got it, but I carried it anyway and decided later that I didnt like it.

Then, I could say that I called the manufacturer and they called me a liar and told me they would fix it, but for half the cost of a new one.

I could say that...but it didnt happen. People would believe it and jump on an anti-company bandwagon.

So what?


I am not calling the OP a liar, but until or if someone from CRK chimes in here, we are getting one side of an unlikely story.

 

[The Government]

So why is there always 25-30 people that get the jitters out of a mere mention of such an experience, with no substantial evidence to back it up?

25-30 is just an average that I learned about in a computer information class, it could be much more or much less. The concept is that people who shop online do not have the same amount of faith for what they are buying. Many people probably buy their first CRK without ever actually holding one first -this means they buy into the positive hype enough to spend over 100 dollars of their money -so what would make you assume that the positive hype has more of an effect than the negative hype? When people share bad experiences it has the same effect of marketers sharing all the hype. Sure we cant believe all the negative experiences, but we cant believe all the marketing hype either -so we balance the two in our own ways.

That is part of the function of bladeforums. We share our experiences for a number of reasons -often the threads we see deal with a person needing reassurance that they are making a wise decision -if a enough people tell them not to do it, or to buy something else they just might.

 

[Tripton]

25-30 is just an average that I learned about in a computer information class, it could be much more or much less. The concept is that people who shop online do not have the same amount of faith for what they are buying. Many people probably buy their first CRK without ever actually holding one first -this means they buy into the positive hype enough to spend over 100 dollars of their money -so what would make you assume that the positive hype has more of an effect than the negative hype? When people share bad experiences it has the same effect of marketers sharing all the hype. Sure we cant believe all the negative experiences, but we cant believe all the marketing hype either -so we balance the two in our own ways.

That is part of the function of bladeforums. We share our experiences to for a number of reasons -often the threads we see deal with a person needing reassurance that they are making a wise decision -if a enough people tell them not to do it, or to buy something else they just might.

Yeah. That is why people should be careful about who they throw under the bus by mentioning names and products without trying to resolve things out of the public eye first.

The internet is where I learned that all liner locks suck, all Glocks go kB, and Obama is not a US citizen...

 

[The Government]

Yeah. That is why people should be careful about who they throw under the bus by mentioning names and products without trying to resolve things out of the public eye first.

The internet is where I learned that all liner locks suck, all Glocks go kB, and Obama is not a US citizen...

HAHAHAHAHA -Touche

wisdom will always be a factor, if only we all had it. I know a lot of the time I dont, but Im working on it:thumbup:.

 

[T.K.C.]

I would also call the place that you bought it from as well.I would have knifecenter replace the knife!!! I must say I am shocked at all this. I am also sorry that this is your first experience with CRK. Rest assured that this is NOT the norm.

 

[benjaminw11]

Yeah. That is why people should be careful about who they throw under the bus by mentioning names and products without trying to resolve things out of the public eye first.

The internet is where I learned that all liner locks suck, all Glocks go kB, and Obama is not a US citizen...

And thats why with a little common sense, and some knowledge we can try to sift through the BS and try to get the truth out of what we read. However I am a believer that the internet brings more good than bad, therefore I embrace it.

 

[Kaizen1]

This kind of a message to the forum really irks me. First, the customer is always right is not true. If the knife was abused beyond the scope of the warranty, then why should a manufacturer have to absorb the cost of repair. That eventually just causes prices to the rest of us buyers to go up. Next, who better then the designer and manufacturer of the knife, Chris Reeve himself, would know if a knife was abused or not? We have a manufacturer who is known for great service, producing a knife that a LOT of people consider the grail, or the knife that all other folders are judged by. Why would Chris Reeve not want to resolve this problem. What benefit does he possibly get by refusing to honor a warranty? None! Has anyone heard of this happening prior to this? I haven't.

In addition, there was no need for the poster to identify the manufacturer and disparage Chris Reeve himself. He could have posted a generic question for advice. Now, without any of us knowing the true facts of the situation, people are already making judgements. Maybe the poster is lying (I'm not saying he is,) or maybe the knifecenter where the knife was purchased used the Sebenza as a display model where hundreds of people played with it. We don't know, but already we have people saying they are no longer thinking of buying a Sebenza. So without knowing the truth of the matter, a well thought of manufacturer has already been hit financially by this single post. That's not right nor fair. I would think that a knife that had a manufacturing defect, would be simple to identify to the designer. If that was the case, we would all expect a warranty to be honored. Knifecenter should be contacted. Maybe they might remember that there was a reason for this Sebenza to be like this, and they would take of it. Exhaust all your possibilities before badmouthing a manufacturer. Word of mouth is like a sword, that can cut both friend or foe when used irresponsibly.

If he is telling the truth and did not abuse the knife and did contact CRK within a couple of weeks (which is perfectly reasonable), why shouldn't he post this on the forum? He already tried to discuss the matter privately with the company who, if he is telling the truth, refused to work with him in a reasonable manner. Going public like this is the last resort for some no name guy that just wanted a high quality knife if a company isn't doing what they're supposed to be doing. It would be a different story if he didn't first take this up with CRK.

Chris Reeve can't read anyone's mind to tell if they're lying or not. He does have experience, but that won't make him infallible in his judgment. I don't see a reason to assume the customer is a liar and I don't see a reason to assume that he is absolutely being truthful. But he's going to need to speak about it before we find out what actually happened.

 

[Thomason]

Then after about 2 weeks I get a call from Chris Reeve himself...... He then calls me a liar.....

....I think I was talking to Chris Reeve himself.....

Who where you talking to? Do you know? In the first quote you accuse Reeve of calling you a liar. In the second quote you don't seem so sure.

 

[cotdt]

I don't think CRK will lose 25-30 sales. There are new threads once every month with complaints about CRK, and yet they seem to be doing well, as they have been for decades. I see unfavorable comparisons of the Sebenza against cheaper knives (like BM710 and Spyderco Millie) all the time but that is never going to kill the company. You guys need to stop worrying.

 

[Chris Reeve Knives]

Here are pictures of Ben Wiener’s knife – a knife that, in the six months that it has been in his possession, has been abused and which he is expecting us to repair at no charge.



You can see the bright shiny spot where the lock has been gouged by the repeated, sharp scraping of the blade across it.


You can see wear on the washers (the circular lines), and the dings.



On the pivot bearing (left) you can see a straight line that is as a result of the pounding it has received. The arrow on the stop sleeve (right) points to the line pounded in by the continued shock of the back of the blade smashing against it.


The scratches and wear on the blade are rather advanced for a knife that only about six months old.



Our guarantee states “…..this guarantee does not cover natural materials, incorrect applications, neglect or abuse……” I have been making, using and testing knives for 35 years. I know what abuse looks like.

The Sebenza folding knife has been made for nearly 20 years and thousands have been made and used hard all over the world. The Sebenza has been referred to as the gold standard in the folding knife industry – not by us but by our competitors in the industry. These competitors have voted for us to receive Blade Magazine’s Manufacturing Quality Award nine times; we did not get these awards by making things that do not last or fall apart within six months of the customer buying it. If Sebenza locks wore out so quickly with such gentle use as this young man says, then I would have been out of business many years ago. Our knives stand up for hard use alongside any product in the market.

The Sebenza does not have a worldwide reputation for nothing. We don’t have a reputation for excellent customer service just by accident. I do not take it lightly to call a customer to tell him that I will not replace a part on his knife free of charge - all of my staff, and Anne and I, bend over backwards to please our customers. But there is a limit to customer service when a knife has been utterly abused.

We will continue to make extremely high performing knives, and will continue to offer industry leading customer service. We base our business on high integrity and recognize where there is a lack of it.

Chris Reeve

 

[DaveH]

Edited my post.

Looks like abuse to me, especially the mashed lock face.