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CS- love 'em, hate 'em- time to address some issues
- Thread starter DngrRuss1
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- Aug 27, 2004
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- 12,957
Thank you.
I stand corrected. I have to say that search engine of theirs is not doing its job. I know I typed in self opening and some other variations of that in the searches I did at the patent web site. It never came up for me once. What is so weird is that those other guys referenced in there with that patent link you provided did come up a time or two but I never saw the one you posted for us.
Looks like :foot: to me on my part. I'll admit it. Actually it makes me feel a lot better to know finally and not have to speculate.
STR
I stand corrected. I have to say that search engine of theirs is not doing its job. I know I typed in self opening and some other variations of that in the searches I did at the patent web site. It never came up for me once. What is so weird is that those other guys referenced in there with that patent link you provided did come up a time or two but I never saw the one you posted for us.
Looks like :foot: to me on my part. I'll admit it. Actually it makes me feel a lot better to know finally and not have to speculate.
STR
Sorry- didn't abandon this thread- gotta work for a living...tim8557 said:
And, (more ranting), I have yet to unload any personal attacks on any members or any other knife makers. Yet, it is perfectly ok to make things personal when bashing CS and LT. One of the most popular ones is calling LT "fat", or something similiar. Cuz we all know that fat guys must all be dishonest and stupid, therefore, that should sum up all of one's debate against CS and LT in a nice tidy bundle.
Let's see- Most Americans are overwieght, so I must assume that most members here on BF are also overweight. And, logically, if LT's weight is an indication of his integrity, honesty, skills, etc., and is a reflection of his company as a whole, then the same must be true of those members here that have some extra pounds. So, when http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/images/me.jpg posts anything, then I assume that we will give him the same disrespect and assume that he is dishonest and wrong too, huh?
Someone stated previously that what makes the haters so rude and feel so free to act with such impugnity, is the anonymity of the internet. Real easy to bash someone that is not right in front of you. In the case of LT, however, feel free to forgoe your anonymity and approach him personally. Go to a show like the Blade Show, or SHOT Show, or how about the CS Challenge? I can tell you that he is apporachable, and is more than willing to engage both his fans and foes. So, if you want to ask him questions regarding product and the companies direction, feel free. If you want to call him a fat thief, well, you can do that too, I just don't think you will be very happy with the results.
Can't get to a show? Write the man a letter. Send him a tape or CD of your rantings either pro or against- but be sure to let him know who you are so he can respond appropriately. Sending him a bitch-slap via mail with no ability for him to respond is just pointless.
STR said:
Does this mean that you might now re-consider the "thief" label you have thrown over LT? Your previous posts for CS were reasonable and well thought out- whether you liked a particular piece or not. You were also one who was quick to defend CS and LT against the haters when they were firing ridiculous and insulting attacks, or putting out "facts" that were nothing of the kind. Then, the Wave controversy hit. You then did a complete 180 and became one of the most staunch detractors of CS and LT and basically recanted all your previous positive or neutral comments. You took one issue personally and then threw out the baby with the bathwater.
Any change there?
Joe Dirt said:
I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that a device can be patented, not an action. Emerson's Wave is an integral part of the spine- Demko's is a plate attached to a riser. Different device doing a similiar job.
Sort of like patenting a particular kind of baseball bat- but you cannot patent the swing.
Again- I'm not a lawyer so I might ot be entirely accurate.
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
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The abstract says "A blade opening element is mounted on the closed exposed edge of the blade adjacent the handle portion and extends both transversely and longitudinally from the blade ..." Emerson's doesn't extend transversely from the blade.
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While I am not a lawyer, I do seem to recall from another topic that it is very possible for to very similar patents to exist. It is the responsibility of the patent holder to bring any type of complaint forward, not the patent office. They only dig so deep to see if there are any similar patents. If the complaint has merit, then the infringing patent can be revoked.
Little off the current descussion, but as far as my opinnion of Cold Steel, I must say that for the money you can get a decent fixed blade or folding knife from them. Not top of the line by any means, but much better than any "flea market special". I've had quite a few over the years and have never had any major problems. I've stabbed apart an broken computer with my kobun, stabbed through my buddies car door with a older vaquaro grande, and currently have a mini-pal on my key ring. I've had alota luck with the voyager series as well. For someone who wants a fixed blade that they don't really need and dosen't want to break the bank, they might be worth a look. Thier daggers are wide and pointy at the tip, thier tantos go through steel and live, and the folders that I've had didn't make me worry too much about loosing fingers. I must say though, that I haven't tried any thing from them in a while as far as the newer folders go. -Do they steal, or at least barrow, ideas, sure. But that should only make thier knives better in the long run, whether you agree with it or not.
My sincere apologies go to Mr. Demko. I had the feeling it would turn out like this. I never really doubted what Mr. Demko said after he was contacted by KV.
However, no apologies to you, DngrRuss1, what you wrote remains a lie...now more than ever. Have you bothered to look at the date of the patent? It's not that the search engine didn't do its job, this patent was issued on May 02, 2006. That's why we couldn't find it! How do you suppose LT licenced a patent for the AK47 half a year (or according to you considering the lead times over 2 years) before the patent was actually issued?
It seems that Cold Steel is in the green for now as I doubt that Emerson will charge this patent (way too expensive). But I think it is pretty clear that a loop hole was exploited here.
Even though Cold Steel is now home free...if this is what you call integrity, then we have to agree to disagree.
However, no apologies to you, DngrRuss1, what you wrote remains a lie...now more than ever. Have you bothered to look at the date of the patent? It's not that the search engine didn't do its job, this patent was issued on May 02, 2006. That's why we couldn't find it! How do you suppose LT licenced a patent for the AK47 half a year (or according to you considering the lead times over 2 years) before the patent was actually issued?
It seems that Cold Steel is in the green for now as I doubt that Emerson will charge this patent (way too expensive). But I think it is pretty clear that a loop hole was exploited here.
Even though Cold Steel is now home free...if this is what you call integrity, then we have to agree to disagree.
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Reconsider? Perhaps. I may have been a bit personally involved and guilty of letting my emotions get the better of me. Time will tell.
I've already stated LT has done other things that began to sway me from his products before the Wave thing came up. The truth is I've had many CS knives and supported the company for many years; from their inception actually. My turn around was not totally over just one issue either. The Wave issue with the demo in the More Proof DVD was just the final straw for me.
Lynn talking negatively about the Karambit, pretty much makng fun of anyone making them and then turning around and coming out with one as well as his back peddling on the 420 steel were both contributors. His rambling idiot behavior like a child having a temper tantrum a while back with the publications in his catalog of the giant conspiracy against his knife that was the obvious choice for knife of the year was something that never sat very well with me either. The Gunsite issue that came up a while back bothered me as well and for that matter the Blackwater feedback was that he won't be asked back again to their seminars either. Ask yourself why LT was never invited back to either site even after he gave a seminar there. Even still I like to try to give the benefit of the doubt especially when what I hear is third party hearsay but sometimes the sources are just too good and too honorable to ignore. Perhaps we as a whole (myself included) are a bit hasty at times in our judgements. I've already admitted I was wrong on this issue of the Wave theft so I don't know what else you expect from me. For now thats the best I can do. Just as I said eariler, if you can show me a patent number I'll be the first to admit I was wrong. I believe I did that.
STR.
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DngrRuss1 said:
DngrRuss1,
I am not a robotic CS or LT hater. However based on my experience with CS products, LT is selling crap for steel. I posted a luandry list of CS products failures. If cataloguing failure of products is "hating" than they should make better products.
My .02 cents
Joe Dirt said:HoB,
The patent was filed on April 22, 2004.
I know, but clearly Cold Steel has acted on the assumption that the patent will actually be issued. It is not THAT easy to get a patent issued... and you can not licence a filed patent, you can only licence a patent that has been issued. Even though the patent protection is usually enacted backwards. So if someone else would have infringed on this patent between April 22, 2004 and May 02, 2006 Demko would receive backwards protection. However, here Cold Steel clearly acted on the basis that this patent would actually be issued, without knowing that it would. And if you read through both Emersons and Demko's patents, they are pretty darn close. Demko's patent carefully avoids the term "snatching on a container" and I assume the big difference is that Demko's device will also act as thumb-opener. Essentially this is the combination of the wave and Spyderco's cobra hood. Very original indeed....but that's just my personal $0.02.
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- Nov 9, 2005
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Yeah, I know. I'm a pedant. But did you really mean to write "2/100 of 1/100 of a dollar?"
HoB said:
The knife was already designed by Demko and the Tulwar is a suped-up Scimitar- so the lead time between design and production was greatly reduced.
For the record. I did not lie. The patent was applied was applied for 2 years ago and CS licensed the product from Demko sometime between then and now. All I said was that the patent was not Emerson's, it was Demko's. I threw that on the table and you called me a liar. I stated that Demko received patent certification, but had not received the number yet. Then you and others exhaustively searched to prove me wrong and again call me a liar. During said search, KV spoke to Demko who pretty much affirmed what I said. Again, you called me a liar. I then provide the patent number for all to see, and again you cal me a liar.
You have a really interesting interpretation of what the work "liar" means. i guess it means one who posseses facts that I do not like and must therefore attack hoping he will shut up. Sorry to dissapoint you, but that is not likely.
You will notice that I have not resorted to name-calling up to now. And, truthfully, though I would love to call you an arrogant insipid moron- I won't. That would be rude and I don't want to sink to your level with the name calling. I'll just let the readers and posters decide for themselves.
DngrRuss1 said:
These were your exact words and you wrote them in April of 2006. Both statements were wrong at the point in time when you proceeded to educate us. The patent was NOT owned by Demko when you posted this. Demko was confirmed patent holder from the day the patent was issued, even though he obtains rights dating back to April of 2004. These rights were not enacted by the time you wrote the above. And CS could not have possibly licenced a patent that wasn't issued yet. You can file ANYTHING as patent if you have the money to do so. Whether the patent will be issued or not you will not know for sure until it is actually issued. As strange as that sounds, the filing date becomes only relevant AFTER the patent is issued. So either you are omniscient that you knew in April what would happen in May or you had no basis for what you were writing.
But you are right, I don't think anymore that you are a liar. I think you simply have no clue what the hell you are talking about.
You know, there is a lot in the way you have been posting this that I took exception too because I see it as deception. Had you written:"Demko has filed for a patent on this opening mechanism, and CS plans on licencing this patent as soon as it is issued, since there seems to be a reasonable chance of Demko being issued that patent" I would have never opened my mouth. As to the name calling...if you start a thread to offer facts, you better see to it that those "facts" are verifiable. And what you call me, really, I couldn't care less.
But I am really done with this thread. This has long gone beyond silly.