CS- love 'em, hate 'em- time to address some issues

GibsonFan said:
Yup, I did post it there too. Sorry if I was out-of-line to ask here?

Bear with me, I'm new here but I'm starting to get the hang of it :rolleyes:
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There is a satin trailmaster up for sale right now in the exchange.
 
bladefrienzy said:
I have a legitimate question then since some here are " in the know" with CS. Why did they Vet.Hawk my wife bought me for Christmas have a direct, blatant rip off of A.T.C. . The Oxblood colored leather sheath is plainly stamped
American Tomahawk Company. I even called the retailer to see if his remaining stock did, thay all seem to have this.
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This has been going on for over four years, and from the archives, it looks like CS and ATC came to some agreement at least three years ago. What agreement, and what's happened since, I dunno.

Thing is, I didn't know about any of this stuff. Sure, I'd heard LT publicly called something that rhymes with "twat"... no, wait, it was "twat." But I bought some knives and swords from CS and didn't think much of it.

And my response to this whole thread was that I really don't want to give a damn about what a twat some knife salesman may or may not be. But dang, I'm hearing about some el sleazo stuff here. And the image of FoxholeAtheist's busted Recon Tanto keeps sticking in my head when I think of my SRK and my Oyabun. Hope the factory remembered to temper mine.

Damn it. CS's personality is just one of the billion issues I didn't want to care about, and now look. :rolleyes:
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
There is a satin trailmaster up for sale right now in the exchange.
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Indeed there is, I asked about it a couple days ago and the owner got back to me today. I checked a bunch of his posts and he seems like a well-known, stand-up guy.... so maybe I'll end up buying his and not having to polish off that butt-ugly black finish :)

Thanks for your help guys... I was getting a little discouraged but it's starting to look like I might find one at a fair price.
 
bladeprince,

You referred and insinuated theft or stealing twice in your post before writing "borrowed":

bladeprince said:
1)By the way, who made the first drop point blade? I think just about every company out there has ripped off that design.
2)And why aren't the Japanese suing everyone for stealing their tanto style point?
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When you wrote "borrow" I followed your lead and immediately thought "steal":
bladeprince said:
If designs could not be "borrowed" or licensed, innovation would come to screeching halt.
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"Borrowing someone's idea is "Stealing" their intellectual property. There is no excuse for theft even if it is an idea.

You are wrong about Bob Lum and the Americanized tanto. You specifically wrote:
bladeprince said:
why aren't the Japanese sueing everyone for stealing their tanto style point?
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I never wrote Bob invented the tanto. I wrote he made the first Americanized tanto. All the Japanese edges leading to the point I've seen have been curved. Bob was first to make a tanto without the curve and a straight edge to the point. He also puts a convex grind on the short straight edge.

Sarcasm is hard to convey without hearing someone talk or seeing their body language. In the future if you want to use sarcasm, use the smilies to emphasize your point: :rolleyes: Or you can use the examples you found in Wikiepedia. This helps everyone understand you are being sarcastic rather than making a statement of fact.

One of the best traits of most of the knife community is the willingness to share and honor. We have been is business for seven years never received a bad check or a stolen credit card. Knifemakers are incredibly honest. I try to give back to the knife community by sharing the little knowledge I have.

If you did not mean it was OK to steal intellectual property I apologize for questioning your character.
 
Chuck Bybee said:
I never wrote Bob invented the tanto. I wrote he made the first Americanized tanto. All the Japanese edges leading to the point I've seen have been curved. Bob was first to make a tanto without the curve and a straight edge to the point. He also puts a convex grind on the short straight edge.
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I just thought I'd point out that there is also a difference between copying or modifying a millenia-old design and a five-year-old design. I doubt there are any old Japanese widows collecting royalties from the tanto point. :D

Patents exist for a reason. The freedom to enjoy the benefits of one's own idea seems pretty obvious, at least to an inventor. It doesn't stifle the innovation of others; it simply challenges others to be similarly creative and/or put a little money in the pocket of that clever guy who came up [whatever].

BTW, I don't consider patent loop-holing to be "similarly creative" either.
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
[Cold Steel] already use 420, which is every bit as junko as AUS-4, or worse.
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They're actually reducing it. They no longer make the PeaceMaker, which was made of 420. Now about the only thing they make out of 420 is...well, I forget. But they don't make more than about one or two, and I think those were the mini-fixed blades utility knives.

Pick up one of their catalogs. You'll see that they don't use 420 much at all.
 
I have seen a few posts here claiming that CS found a "loophole" in the patent issue for the wave and exploited it. I think this is typical of the CS bashing listed on this thread.

Let's see-
CS and LT saw the knife that Demko designed and was making.

They liked what they saw.

They licensed the product from Demko.

Demko had applied for and received a patent- though the number was pending.

CS licensed the use of the patent. Just because a number is not issued does not mean that the product does not either have a patent orr can not be licensed for production.

CS and LT gave Demko credit for the design and the patent from the very beginning. His picture even appears in the CS catalog (along with other knife makers whose designs CS has licensed).

On this forum, I was challenged as to the legitimacy of the patent, and OTHER FORUM MEMBERS verified it with Demko himself.

When the number was issued, I then put it here on this same thread.

I was still called a liar and CS a bunch of crooks- but I fail to see where that holds any water or where this mysterious "loophole" is.

I have tried very hard to not call people names or be insulting- and when I have fallen off that horse, I have apologized- but when I present either an opinion or a fact that you haters do not like, you feel free to brandish me a liar or impugn my integrity. Hmm... Sounds like sour grapes to me.

And to those that don't like my time schedule and seem to be waiting for my next response- be patient. When I get inof, I will present it. But my time and life does not revolve around BF and if I am not fast enough for you guys, then I am sorry but that is the way it is.

Funny how I make a lot of statements and opinions and you haters choose to only harp on a couple of weak points and my lack of expedience to try to discredit me.

Good luck...
 
bladefrienzy said:
I have a legitimate question then since some here are " in the know" with CS. Why did they Vet.Hawk my wife bought me for Christmas have a direct, blatant rip off of A.T.C. . The Oxblood colored leather sheath is plainly stamped
American Tomahawk Company. I even called the retailer to see if his remaining stock did, thay all seem to have this.

Also the head of the Hawk has about a 30% warp to it when looking down it's "spine" . When I called CS they told me this wasn't a flaw. In the same breath they could not do anything about it, but if I had purchased it from them (special projects) they would have replaced it.
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As I stated in a previous post- CS OWNED the "American Tomahawk Company" name and the folks at ATC did not do their research before using the name themselves. If they had, they would have seen that CS owned the name and in order to use it freely, they would have either needed to license it or buy it from them. Nothing nefarious or criminal on CS end, but boy the haters sure assumed that CS was in the wrong and blasted them without having all the facts.

As for the customer service issue, CS, like any other company, survives by customer service. If your account of your experience is accurate, then I can only assume that you got an idiot on the phone. Every comapny has them and CS is not immune. It sure doesn't help their rep, but I am sure that if the dolt that you spoke to is not there anymore and you should call or write again and see what happens.

Seriously, do you guys actually think that CS and LT just sit around, wringing their hands, laughing maniacally, and saying, "what can we do to screw people today? Bwahahahahaha...".

I mean, it's not like they are a tobacco company or something:D
 
I am still waiting for you to match my test where I pounded my ice pick through steel with several sledge hammers- with any CS product or bladesteel. ;)




BTW, the Ice pick is less than 3/16" thick in the weakest spot.
 
DngrRuss1 said:
Seriously, do you guys actually think that CS and LT just sit around, wringing their hands, laughing maniacally, and saying, "what can we do to screw people today? Bwahahahahaha...".

I mean, it's not like they are a tobacco company or something:D
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I thought LT purchased orphan children on the black market to use as targets for the cold steel torpedo. . . :D ;)
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
I thought LT purchased orphan children on the black market to use as targets for the cold steel torpedo. . . :D ;)
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Can you think of a better use for orphan children from the black market?


Okay... that was wrong
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
I am still waiting for you to match my test where I pounded my ice pick through steel with several sledge hammers- with any CS product or bladesteel. ;)




BTW, the Ice pick is less than 3/16" thick in the weakest spot.
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I am not going to grind any of my knives down to the spine just to creat an ice-pick.

but submit your pics to CS and see what happens.
 
DngrRuss1 said:
Can you think of a better use for orphan children from the black market?


Okay... that was wrong
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but. . . does he give a fierce stare after nailing the children with the torpedo?
This would make it all worthwhile . . .
 
DngrRuss1 said:
I am not going to grind any of my knives down to the spine just to creat an ice-pick.

but submit your pics to CS and see what happens.
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No real point. I know Cold Steel does not make a similar product, and I know they use a somewhat lesser carbon steel. 0170-63?/Carbon V- vs - 52100/SR101.

Maybe a more appropriate and interesting/informative question for you would be-

What is CS going to do if Camillus goes under? Where will they get carbon steel blades?
 
DngrRuss1 said:
I wish I had an answer for that one. I do not know. Not good news for knifeknuts though...
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Seems like you're short of a lot of answers. If you REALLY wanted to help out CS, you'd stop with the disappearing games, and pop in once a night for at least a week. It doesn't really take that much time.
 
I, for one- would like to hear the real story of how you are connected at the hip to Cold Steel. Are you an employee/PR man? Come clean.

Do you really think covering up the specifics helps your cause?

Lets be frank- Cold steel doesn't have a stellar reputation. This is mostly due to a few shoddy products/Customer service cases and LT's moronic antics, (but it is hard to separate the company from the proprietor.)

On your side there is plenty of satisfied customers with cold steel.

(& many misguided apologists trying to make excuses for a few poorly heat treated blades snapping as well. . .:jerkit:)

It is apparent to me that you are a CS representative; so admitting this fact will not change my viewpoint.

I don’t blame you, as I consider you a paid representative of the company just doing his job.

I think you would probably have an easier time if you came clean about your role here.

I will be honest- I no longer entertain any desire to ever purchase any more Cold Steel products, as I have found better products and people/companies to deal with.

This does not change the fact that I desire to see the truth revealed.
 
CS has always used marketing tactics that were more at home in consumer goods than the knife world. If they're actually trying to make an impact in this community, planting a shill is not the way to do it. I'm not making any accusations (although I'm curious), I'm just making a statement.

If CS really wants a chance to publicly defend themselves, they should send somebody to moderate a forum. No games. Simple as that.
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