CS Recon Scout Fails Miserably

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Andrew Lynch
...In a way I agree with you.....For if you did call a knife maker, or a tool maker and asked about some types of use that you did, or plan to do, with the tool in question,,,AND the maker tells you that your tool was "Never designed to do that."....Then you have your answer!

There is no need to go on and on trying to blame the tool for failing to do what it was never designed to do,,,Just don't buy it....or if you did buy it, used it, and broke it, and find out later from the maker that it was not designed to do what you did to it, then don't blame the tool....

Now I make a darn strong knife myself,,,,And I do make it to stand up to normal use,,,But I don't think I would use my own knife to do 'everything' I can think of on a camping trip,,,,

I don't think I would use my knife to chop down a 2 foot thick oak tree,,,I would not use my knife to jack up a car,,,,,I would not use my own knife to pound 16 penny nails to build a wood deck,,,,,

An Axe, a tire iron, and a hammer are better tools for them jobs,It's no big deal,,,there is just no way for me to build a knife blade that can do all such jobs without taking away from the ability of the knife to do what it's main job is,,,,,ie , to cut stuff.

The main design of a knife has to be: To be able to cut stuff,,,to cut the normal stuff that a person runs into,,,

I make my knives to cut the things that I run into in a normal day,,,,paper, plastic,,,carpet, meat,,,,felt,,,,leather...If I were to design my knife blades also to be able to pound in a 16 penny nails (with the blade), Then the future design would be so different, that it would hurt the ability to be usefull for the cutting of paper/plastic. meat. etc....(the stuff it was made to do in the first place)

I have no doubt that I could design and forge a tool to be used to split 8 inch logs with, (no matter the knots in the wood..LOL)....I'm sure we all could design such a tool, that would NEVER be in danger of breaking,,a tool you could sledge hammer away on with no danger of it breaking,,,,

But would that tool still be able to cape a deer?...could it dig out a splinter from your child's eye lid in the rain?.. could you carry it all day without it getting heavy?. ..Does it look normal sitting next to the fork and dinner plate?.....thats a hard list of things for a log-splitter to do.
 
D.F.

Maybe you haven't noticed, there are actually different kinds of knives, big ones, small ones, thin ones, thick ones, the one in question was a thick one, fairly big one, ment for rough handling not splitting feathers for fletching.

It certainly is not that hard a concept to grasp, or maybe it is ...

TLM
 
Face it, many (most) knife owners are so gentle with their knives they would do fine with a slip-joint folder. My BM 941 does a fine job of cutting small stuff. What I need a big knife to do is cut big stuff, it isn't for detail work. Now that we're past asking why the CS RS broke, my big knife is a Fehrman Final Judgement and it's fine doing the baton thing. Check the
photos at Hoods Woods. Photo's are of the Hood Hunter, but the FJ is built the same. It's designed for heavy use and batoning is in its job description.
 
Peoria46:
Be factual and have some decorum
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I was in fact more factual than the median here, as for decorum, I have been called a liar after just stating a fact here so often, that I can certainly have some fun with your attitudes.

TLM
 
I can not believe you people. This is a 5/16th thick heavy bladed bowie knife. Its not made for spreading jam. Its not made for slicing tomatoes. Its not made for trimming your fingernails. It a SUVIVAL/COMBAT KNIFE!!! It should be able to baton a log in half. Other people have done it with small, weaker knives. Nutn' did it with the same model of knife. Fact of the matter is, the knife should not have failed! Cold Steel should replace it, but personally, if it was my knife that broke, I would be getting a different brand, and avoiding Cold Steel.
 
DaQo'tah Forge said:
I have no doubt that I could design and forge a tool to be used to split 8 inch logs with, (no matter the knots in the wood..LOL)....


But would that tool still be able to cape a deer?...could it dig out a splinter from your child's eye lid in the rain?.. could you carry it all day without it getting heavy?. ..Does it look normal sitting next to the fork and dinner plate?.....thats a hard list of things for a log-splitter to do.
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No it isn't. If you read the above you will note that lots of people baton large wood with puukkos. The only danger on knots there is turning the edge, not having the knife crack in half.

The Recon Scout is a fairly massive slab of steel, as noted it is not made to be a fine cutting tool, it is vastly outperformed by other knives for that type of work.

As for axes being thicker than knives, a rule of thumb for wood cutting axes is 0.25" thick at two inches back from the edge, that is the same as on a high end bowie. Now splitting axes have thicker bits, but no one carries them hiking. In fact wood cutting axes will get damaged on knots far easier than tactical blades like the RS because the RS has a vastly *thicker* profile.

There are lots of tasks a tactical/emergency blade can do that a wood cutting axe would find abusive, like heavy knots, limbing, root grubing, bone whacking, etc. .


-Cliff
 
my modified busse combat NICK could perform all of those tasks, even at .090" thick, as could one of the euro4's from busse, at 1/4".

it would require more skill on the lock splitting side for the NICK, and it would require more skill on the deer capering with the euro - but both could handle it (with proper sharpening on the uero)

(edit, and both of those would look fine on the dinner table next to the butter knife (if you satin finished the uero))


(edit #2 - not sure if this post was of any good without explanation.

it doesnt matter if the knife was specifically designed for splitting logs, or specifically for cutting deer. if the knife is meant to be used for "survival" purposes, it needs to be able to handle all given tasks without failure. given a good heat treatment, a decent steel, and a little knowledge of dangerous blade geometry (squared corners), it isnt that hard to make a knife that can handle all of the chores you specified. as it has been said, splitting logs with a knife isnt as hard on it as it seems, unless there are rocks present in the wood.)
 
TLM said:
the one in question was a thick one, fairly big one, ment for rough handling not splitting feathers for fletching.

It certainly is not that hard a concept to grasp, or maybe it is ...

TLM
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LOL....Actually.....I dont think the knife in question would have had that much of a problem with splitting feathers for fletching,,,,(But the guy on the TV show, "MAIL CALL" last night did it with his fingers by the way)..But thats just my point of view haveing not ever actually held the knife in question,,,,

If I were to support my answer with FACTS, then I would just drop a note to the designer and maker of said knife, and ask if the knife could handle the "Feathers "?.......

Oh, and by the way,,,what did you mean about a concept being hard to grasp?.......I didnt understand that part of your post.....
 
Actually, I have enjoyed the tangent topics in regards to the camping. I figured out from the onset that it was a defect. A defect that QC may have been able to spot or is immaterial, but a defect non the less. Whether they replace it with another or not will depend on the attitude of the person in charge of that job when it is presented for replacement. Oh Well. Cliff, have a good day and there is a thread on the British Blade Forums similar to this one in that it discusses the limit of performance on knives by makers.
 
DaQo'tah Forge said:
Yes, it is...
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the qoute that is referenced in cliffs post is introduced with "i could". to that degree, it may be difficult for you to personally design something to fit all of the tasks that you stated.

however, with a decent steel, a good heat treatment, and a little knowledge of dangerous blade geometry (like squared corners), any knife built with even a mild amount of robustness (puuko's included) should be able to handle all of the tasks you listed.

even the fragile knives ive handled, like my ontario spec plus wich honestly feels like i could snap it in my hare hands with reletively little effort could handle all the tasks you mentioned. id be careful with it in log splitting, since the spec plus line has some serious qc issues, but as long as its not from one of the bad batches, it should be able to take it (while being able to dig out splinters, spread butter, slice bread, cut hanging string etc.)

also, adding a post of pure opinion sans any backing argument, points, logic, or examples doesnt really add anything to the discussion. by saying "your wrong." and leaving it at that, its not very convincing, even if i beleived in your side of the argument.
 
D.F.
Oh it's OK Peoria46, I'm sure he means well...LOL
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You still don't get it, one of the most "clueless" cases of stubborness I have ever met even on an american forum.

Yeah, fletching can be split with fingers, apparently some old masters preferred that way, I have allways found it easier with a SUITABLE knife not a survival tool as you are suggesting.

And no I don't mean well at all but I am having the time of this week with you. How about learning something before presenting it.

TLM

Nää ei vieläkään usko miten vähän ne tietää, mielipitiestä kun vaan ei ole tosiasioiksi.
 
D.F.
"clueless American" you say?. oh,.I see, Comrade...
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You ARE priceless, you still didn't get it.

Thanks by the way, I won a eur 10 bet with my brother, I predicted that next I'll be called a communist...

This isn't even fun anymore, I'll give you back the candy...

TLM
 
SethMurdo said:
it doesnt matter if the knife was specifically designed for splitting logs, or specifically for cutting deer.
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Again, all Im saying, (or trying to say that is...)
....is that what you think a knife is made to do, and what I think that same knife can do, might well be totally different things right?

The only point of view that really counts is the with the guy who made the knife....so ask him if he made the knife in question to do what was asked of it,,,,show him the photo,,,

The Most important "matter" is the question: what the knife was designed to do?,,,,

If I made a knife to do -"X",,,,,,and you use my knife to do - "Y" and the knife fails,,,,I would think that you used the blade to do something I never designed it to do,,,

Well before a person runs around pointing out the flaws in a blade when used to do - "Y" , ,,,( read here, hammer-split 8 inch log) that someone should find out that the knife was offically designed to do - "Y"

Chances are that the maker has a design spec sheet that would lay out what can be expected of the blade to do, and what would be concidered a risk to do...


When I look at the photo of the broken blade,,,,I think that useing that type of blade in that manner, is more near the risk side of the things it was designed to do....But thats just my point of view,,,and as I said, our point of view dont count in learning what was to blame for the broken blade,,,

Ask the maker, show him the photo,,,if the maker looks at the same photo of the knife says, "It broke?. it should have not broken doing that!",,,,then thats the answer!...no need for me or you to add to that at all...
 
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