Dark Ops Petition/Contact...

[disorder]

i think i have to add something.
my scrima instructor is one of ER designer. the owners of ER confirm the story how is told.And they are watching the things.
Of course i dont have any real evidence - i dont have a pic of DO types running away with knives or whatever - but i trust enough people at ER to think that somethin' smells.
plus, while i see the blatant similarities...

Anyway, just clear a point: ER - at least unofficially at this time - confiirm what has been told.
if they would sue , is another different thing.

sorry ,but i needed to clarify this.

 

[Quiet Storm]

Thanks for your support, guys.

I don't expect that our Three Stooges here turn out to be the same person.
Blades_Two and sendec strike me as two guys who wanted to play devil's advocate until they noticed that they're fighting a losing battle, resorting to outrageous pseudo-arguments to "save the day" instead of simply admitting that their assessment of DOK is flawed.
fedaykincmndr is just...well...weird.

I'm not so sure our little friend QS is German by birth.

Forgot to add that I'm not your "little friend".

 

[DaveH]

actually you guys are playing into Frank's "hand". I think his feeling is any press is good press and by continuing to stir things up with threads like this on, your getting him even more advertising, attention, buzz etc.

Also his feeling is that BF is such a small audience it won't matter, ad that his knives will be so good that all the naysayers, doubters and etc. Will have to eat their words.

 

[Quiet Storm]

Only time will tell.
He can already forget about most of the European knife market. And I think Franky's mistaken: BFC may be a small market when it comes to low-end knives. But many of Bladeforums 28,000+ members are willing to pay $200+ for a knife, so we definitely are a relatively big section of the high-end knife market.
And I doubt that a whole lot of soldiers and cops will buy into his crap.

I really hope that ER somehow gets to sue the sh** out of him.

 

[sendec]

Just to remind everyone, for a while, Mercworx had everyone up in arms just like this. People said the knives didn't exist, that they were fake, that the copy was lame, that they ripped off a strider design, etc.

Good point - IIRC people were also saying the same stuff about Extrema Ratio for a while, and now they are the upstanding, hapless victims of an internet conspiracy - pass the tinfoil.

 

[Photo Murray]

Sendec do you work for DOK. it sounds like your there BF stirer/advertiser. they do have a stupid ad campaign so who knows.

 

[Quiet Storm]

Comparing the MercWorx case to DOK is like comparing Janet Jackson's nipple slip to Watergate.

Besides, I don't see that many people recommending MercWorx products to anyone here...so no, it didn't get "all cleared up" AFAIK.
It's true that some people post positive reviews of their knives.
I don't doubt that DOKs will be fairly decent, maybe even good knives. Apparently some people just don't understand that I never said that DOK's overall quality is bad.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

I think we have people carefully misremembering history. The three companies are quite unlike each other.

Mercworx's biggest problem was quality control and customer service on their folders. That's never been properly solved and Mercworx has never become a major company.

Extrema Ratio's problem was selling strange-looking and expensive knives in a foreign market with essentially no advertising. Frank Miller took care of that with aggressive customer service and communication.

None of which describes his stewardship of DOK.

 

[Keith Montgomery]

Good point - IIRC people were also saying the same stuff about Extrema Ratio for a while, and now they are the upstanding, hapless victims of an internet conspiracy - pass the tinfoil.

Nobody ever said that ER knives never existed, or that they were fake or that they ripped of a strider design, other than maybe the wrapped handle, which wasn't a Strider innovation in the first place. I have no idea what "that the copy was lame" means, but I don't recall people saying that either. Actually, I don't recall much of that being said about Mercworx either. I know that people were dissing their ad campaign and for awhile were complaining about their knives not being available, but it was nothing like what is happening with Dark Ops.

 

[sendec]

Sendec do you work for DOK. it sounds like your there BF stirer/advertiser. they do have a stupid ad campaign so who knows.

No.

I have no fiscal interest in DOK, ER or any other knife company. I have never visited DOK's website, nor have I ever seen any of their ads.

I just find the vehemence with which DOK is attacked here fascinating, and a little disturbing. Note that I have never said anything in favor of their knives, just in favor of allowing them to do business and letting the free market determine their fate. I relate the attacks on DOK to the attacks on music lyrics and Janet's nipple. Who are the anti-DOKs to determine prior to the launch of a product what their ad campaign should look like and what I should buy? I'll express my opinion about their product after and if they actually launch and if they have a product that does what I need done better than someone elses', and I'll do so with my checkbook either way.

Contrary to self delusion, I dont believe that anyone here can speak for the entire BFC community. While groupthink seems to run rampant, not everyone subscribes. I also do not think that ridicule and dog-piling is a really effective means to effect positive change.

 

[Cougar Allen]

It's interesting how several people who don't seem to know what's going on are so insistent that no one else knows any more than they do. One even claims that ER doesn't know any more about it than he does. Where did you get the information that ER doesn't know any more than you do?

Occasionally I think about changing my sig to "If you don't know what you're talking about, don't." I fear if I did that our bandwidth charges would drop considerably....

 

[Will P.]

I just find the vehemence with which DOK is attacked here fascinating, and a little disturbing. Note that I have never said anything in favor of their knives, just in favor of allowing them to do business and letting the free market determine their fate.

Get a hint... this forum is all about the free market.

I relate the attacks on DOK to the attacks on music lyrics and Janet's nipple.

Theft is clearly immoral. What does it have to do with nipples?

Who are the anti-DOKs to determine prior to the launch of a product what their ad campaign should look like and what I should buy

Dude... their ad campaign is remarkably terrible. I don't think that one's in dispute. If you haven't seen their ads or website... then how do you know? And you can buy whatever the hell you want.

I'll express my opinion about their product after and if they actually launch and if they have a product that does what I need done better than someone elses', and I'll do so with my checkbook either way.

Well, some of us adhere to a moral code that keeps us from buying from people with shady business practices.
No one is holding your wrist and keep you from throwing your money at any product whatsoever, so I'm a bit baffled about what you're whining about.

I also do not think that ridicule and dog-piling is a really effective means to effect positive change.

It works.

 

[sendec]

Well, some of us adhere to a moral code that keeps us from buying from people with shady business practices.
No one is holding your wrist and keep you from throwing your money at any product whatsoever, so I'm a bit baffled about what you're whining about.

So dont buy from'em. I'm not whining about anything, it is the anti-DOK types who have their knickers in a twist.....Y'all do what you gotta, but DOK is gonna do the same.

I'm perfectly happy to see DOK fail, on merit or lack thereof.........

Some people used to claim lynching worked, too.

 

[Quiet Storm]

Frank Miller is a thief and a liar and since he browsed BFC last night and didn't reply despite being asked for it, he's also a coward in my book.

Plain and simple.

IMO that's all there is to know about DOK. If someone wants to buy stuff from a lying sissy, do it, but don't pester me for calling him on his bullsh**.

 

[cpirtle]

Mercworx's biggest problem was quality control and customer service on their folders. That's never been properly solved and Mercworx has never become a major company.

IIRC there was also a big issue with their advertising when they came out and said they were backed by three of the biggest names in the custom knife industry and all of their knives were "custom", yet never told anyone who the big names were. They had the whole covert thing going on for a while and then came clean with the names of the makers involved and things took a turn for the better.

I could certainly be wrong because I've never taken an interest in their knives, but I thought that was some of the story.


But, speaking of Dark Ops, they showed on their web page that they were in Vegas last weekend. Did anyone see recent reditions of their knives or did they actually have a booth?

 

[Gollnick]

I have never visited DOK's website, nor have I ever seen any of their ads.

I just find the vehemence with which DOK is attacked here fascinating, and a little disturbing.

The ads and the website are one of the major issues here. If you haven't seen them, then how can you feel qualified to comment?

The design of the knives is another major issue here. Inasmuchas the knives don't exist, the only way to experience the design is to see the ads or the website. If you haven't seen the ads or the website, then you haven't, by definition, seen the knives. Again, I have to ask how you can feel qualified to comment?

 

[Gollnick]

Frank Miller is a thief and a liar and since he browsed BFC last night and didn't reply despite being asked for it, he's also a coward in my book.

Again, let's give him a bit of time. There's a lot of material here and I hope that he'll want to consider it all carefully and formulate a very careful, very complete, very thoughtful response.

 

[Quiet Storm]

Again, let's give him a bit of time. There's a lot of material here and I hope that he'll want to consider it all carefully and formulate a very careful, very complete, very thoughtful response.

Don't hold your breath.

The Dork Ops bashing on BFC has been going on for well over six months, Frank has already had plenty of time to respond.

 

[sendec]

Again, let's give him a bit of time. There's a lot of material here and I hope that he'll want to consider it all carefully and formulate a very careful, very complete, very thoughtful response.

Why should he bother? Everyone here has already passed judgement. And frankly, what makes (us) think (we) are that important? People here have shown no interest in a dialogue, they just want a chance to whip up on him.

 

[alan aragon]

i remember seeing the dark ops ads in the mags when they 1st appeared some time ago, & thought to myself, "well, i guess ER sales must not be doing too well since they're re-vamping their marketing campaign in what looks like a more radical, desperate direction". now i'm catching a whiff that ER isn't the parent manufacturer of DO, & really bugs the sh!t outa me that DO could be unwittingly bringing down the name rep of ER with their embarassing campaign. i'm definitely with quiet storm on this one. there's no defending DO here unless you're either ignorant, stubborn, or just plain dense. of course my life will go on regardless of whether ER gets vindicated in this fiasco or not, but as a knife advocate & fan, i have the full right to be pissed @ DO's wack campaign. the fact that NO ONE (frank or other) has stepped up to attempt to clear things up for the knife-buying public only consolidates my contempt for DO's BS.