Dark Ops Petition/Contact...

sendec said:
And frankly, what makes (us) think (we) are that important?
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Hmmm...let's see...maybe because we're almost 30,000 knife collectors and users? Maybe because probably every single one of us is considered the "knife guy" by his family and friends and therefore someone who gets to make knife recommendations to a dozen people or more?

We are an influential part of the industry, at least as far as $100+ knives are concerned.
 
Quiet Storm said:
We are an influential part of the industry, at least as far as $100+ knives are concerned.
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my hunch is that indirectly, we might be THEE MOST influential hub of the industry.
 
sendec said:
So dont buy from'em. I'm not whining about anything, it is the anti-DOK types who have their knickers in a twist.....Y'all do what you gotta, but DOK is gonna do the same.

I'm perfectly happy to see DOK fail, on merit or lack thereof.........

Some people used to claim lynching worked, too. :eek:
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But you should care more. You should be mad at them as a company. Everyone here is a knife lover and we all should be angry. Their advertising is a blackeye on each and everyone of us even if no one buys their knives and they are out of business before the year is out. There is little reason for most of the knife laws that are on the books here, but they are and the number of laws are increasing each year. Why? Becasue people have a view that knives are just used as weapons and are no longer tools to be used to make life easier. You need to go and study the DOK web page and the ads in Blade. They bolster the negitive view that the sheeple have about knives and even if you don't see it that view hurts us all. They as a knife company should see that. There are several companies and small time knife makers that could be said to make knives that are mainly used as anti people knives, self-defense etc but they have the sense not to come right out and talk about how great their knives are at killing. It is insane to do so. No one gains from that kind of sterotype in the long run. As more of this kind of crap that they are using to sell kinves gets out to the general public the more likely you are to have knee jerk reactions that end up with laws banning knives. Look at the sword ban in Australia and some of the knife laws in Europe and the reasons behind them if you think I am being a paranoid nut. If they stole any designs from ER then that will work itself out but at the very least they should be held in account for their irresponsible ads. Rant off sorry to be so long, forgive spelling errors etc :)
 
I've already cited other companies that have used lurid and violent imagery in their ads. It's advertising, for gosh sakes. "Carry a better pitchfork?" C'mon.

Be careful what you wish for. If you succeed in muzzling one entity, the karma's gonna suck. I'd like to think that people can make their own decisions and dont believe everything they read, but maybe this group is an exception.
 
... the karma's gonna suck.
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Being Lutheran, I don't believe in karma. Carma, yes... but that's a different thing.



Carma is when you do something bad and the next day your car breaks down and needs $1200 in repairs... bad carma. :D

Sometime it just seems that God has, for some reason, selected the automotive service industry to be his agents to receive penance payments. :D
 
sendec said:
the anti-DOK types
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LOL!!

Blades Two and sendec, You two seem to be of an opposing opinion to the majority in this matter, That's fine. However y'all are unnecessarily rude and condescending. Why?

Blades Two said:
For pete's sake, let it go. It isn't worth the emotion.
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I think either you've become aware of this whole DOK fiasco (fiasco is one of my favorite words BTW) a bit late in the game and are not clear on the details or you just don't realize the larger implications involved. It is an important matter to everyone here because of the potential harm that could be done to knife legislature by this company's ad campaign. The people who inhabit [all] these knife forums are analagous to the people who are in the NRA. We are all passionate about knives and are aware of the precarious image that knives have in our society. If a similar ad campaign emerged in the world of guns you can bet there would be significant reaction from the NRA.

You think it is an unfair pile-on to bash a company for their stupid-stupid ad campaign? Do you really think that this is done for enjoyment or even worse by compulsion and not because of a genuine expression of our opinion on the matter?

The fact that DOKs are blatant copies if not the actual ER knives with a cheap paint job and new handles, is a further stain on this company's reputation and deserving of our scorn.
 
To Whomever wrote "what's with bashing soldiers US or German..."

I'm a Marine and I'll bash the US Army all day. (Not that I have anything against them, it's an understood competiveness both branches are aware of and have a wonderful time pursuing.) As for the German Army, I have an immense amount of respect for them and all their members and in no way meant to sound duragatory as I have had the pleasure of meeting some of it's members and veterans.

QS, I don't want a beef with you and I'm sorry you've got your knickers all in a twist over a couple of misunderstandings (mine are quite the same). Furthermore, I acted immaturely and wrongly and hope that this can at least be resolved if not put behind us. Also, I apologize for the US Army remark, I have quite a few friends that are German and their English isn't as good as yours, thus I assumed (bad Ju Ju) that you were American. As I said I hope that these misunderstandings and bash fests (my apologies again) can be soon put to rest. I hope that we can be adults and resolve this. :footinmou

So, let's all turn our attention towards the enemy we SHOULD be pursuing, DORK Ops.

Thank you Mr. Nelson! That was the exact point of this post; to bring to everyone's attention the travesty that Dork Ops is bringing upon us all as "knife people" as QS so wonderfully put it. They are bringing upon us the attention that is "a politicians wet dream" as someone put it, and I think that it is in our best interests to either inform them of it or make their lack of credibility so widely known and understood that no self respecting human will ever purchase their ridiculous product. They are advertising their product as a tool for killing (or covert deanimation :) ). Which to the ignorant masses confirms to them that all edged tools are used in such fashions and that is their sole purpose in this world. To us, informed, most of the time intelligent humans we see this on a breech upon our integrity and a threat towards our pursued hobby. Thus, putting us in the lime-light for those who would see us hanged for daring to bring any edged tool from our homes into the street. THIS is the reason they must be stopped, advertising rights be da**ed. :grumpy:
 
fedaykincmndr said:
So, let's all turn our attention towards the enemy we SHOULD be pursuing, DORK Ops.
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Hooah. Trust a jarhead to screw things up... ;)
 
I was just pondering the irony of Quiet Storm praising his "Black Ops CQB" in another thread, while complaining about Dark Ops's choice of similar language here.

I am sure that he has a rational and lucid explanation for this seeming contradiction.

Riiiiiight.
 
Sendec, you don't get invited to too many places do you? What is your deal with Quiet Storm?

Do you really not see the difference between how Camillus, Emerson, Strider, et al market their knives and how DOK is doing it?
 
I really don't want to get mixed up in this because I'm probably one of the most knife-ignorant people on the forums.
But yes there is a noticible difference between the ads for DOK and just about every other company, even to me.
That is the difference between saying "our products will serve you well in even the worst situation" and "our product was specifically made to stab people, all day long, and is so good for this we had to add features to control the blood flying everywhere"
My new nightmare is people who know nothing about knives forming opinions (and laws!) about our area of interest based on nothing but DOK ad copy.
 
sendec, lad, your responses are igonrant and without merit whatsoever. Can you not see that the ADVERTISING is hurting ALL of us. Of course we've passed judgment, because eventually the judment will be passed upon us if Dork Ops insane advertising is not stopped. Do you not see that the fuel provided here is, can, and will be catosrophic? These claims DO has made about "strategic blood grooves" and "covert deanimation" is the fuel that someone can and most likely will use to try and persuade lawmakers to restrict our rights as HUMANS to carry a blade. Our rights are already being infringed in that realm and all we need is some liberal crime hunter to see this horrendous advertising and use it in their favor. You also have to understand that most people don't see a distinction when it comes to cutlery. All they see is knife, blade, point, and death. That's IT! If you don't see that this type of PR can be a detriment to the hobby and love that we pursue, then I suggest you reevaluate the way you're looking at us but at yourself as well. Look at the facts and not your opinion and be open minded and see what we're saying. I garuntee you'll see what we mean if you just think about it.
 
Hurting the industry as a whole is taking it more than a bit too far. Let's face it guys, knives aren't going anywhere anytime soon, because we need them everyday.

If DOK is going to have this over-the-top marketing as their way of life, so be it. I personally think they are opening themselves up to a liability nightmare if someone is killed using their product, we already have examples of that from the gun industry, but that's something THEY will have to contend with, not the industry as a whole, primarily because the big companies don't engage in this behavior. When it comes to going for deep pockets, lawyers would have already bankrupted every single knife company out there if they could have.

Until then, if this line of marketing is working for DOK, more power to them. I talked to Frank Miller at SHOT regarding this and several other things and I came away with the impression that he's doing ok. And I have to tell you, when I read the complaints here about the advertising, I remember something from my marketing classes - "If the ad doesn't appeal to you, you aren't the target market". PYRAMONT (the company that does DOK) targets the mall ninja segment of the market with this... if they bite, so be it.

Us? We don't respond to it. Something tells me that if the advertising doesn't work, DOK will change their tune. If it does, they won't. Time is the ultimate judge.
 
What happens to ER if they lose market share b/c of DO's "advertising". I see 1sks is liquidating its ER stock. Is that related to poor sales for ER or DO ripoffs. No disrespect intended. Just asking.

Kref
 
fedaykincmndr said:
sendec, lad, your responses are igonrant and without merit whatsoever.
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Uh, you misspelled "igonrant"(sic).

My responses are based on the First Amendment, a dislike for prior restraint, faith in the free market and a respect for small businesses. I dont have to see their ads, and dont have to like what they do, to acknowledge their right to do it.

If you have some evidence that the tone and tenor of advertising has some global negative impact I'd like to see it. This appears to be one of those areas where opinion has transmogrified into fact. Cite me a peer reviewed study that shows a statistically significant result in which advertising of a product had a significant causal influence on the outcome of a statistically significant number of civil and criminal trials, and you'll have something. There may be anecdotal evidence, but that doesnt rise to the level of proof, especially with the gargantuan amount of litigation in the US. You could make the "Pink Fuzzy Bunny Material Divider" and if somebody does something wrong with one of your knives you are still in the poop, and your politically correct language isnt gonna save ya.

You are entitled to your own opinions, you are not entitled to your own facts. Show me the proof.
 
sendec said:
Uh, you mispelled "igonrant"(sic).

My responses are based on the First Amendment, a dislike for prior restraint, faith in the free market and a respect for small businesses. I dont have to see their ads, and dont have to like what they do, to acknowledge their right to do it.

If you have some evidence that the tone and tenor of advertising has some global negative impact I'd like to see it. This appears to be one of those areas where opinion has transmogrified into fact. Cite me a peer reviewed study that shows a statistically significant result in which advertising of a product had a significant causal influence on the outcome of a statistically significant number of civil and criminal trials, and you'll have something. There may be anecdotal evidence, but that doesnt rise to the level of proof, especially with the gargantuan amount of litigation in the US. You could make the "Pink Fuzzy Bunny Material Divider" and if somebody does something wrong with one of your knives you are still in the poop, and your politically correct language isnt gonna save ya.

You are entitled to your own opinions, you are not entitled to your own facts. Show me the proof.
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Why does the issue on this thread have anything to do with the First Amendment or prior restraint? What government censorship are your referring to? It seems to me the issue is whether or not Dark Ops are ripoffs of Extrema Ratio or not. We can agree or disagree about that. But the First Amendment doesn't have anything to do with it.

Kref
 
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