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Ebay seller "SPORTCOLBS" ... Listing descriptions misleading
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Well.....when you see things like THIS It really isnt too much of a stretch of the imagination, especially considering the known fakes some chinese manufacturers put out these days. Especially when you see the same ol' sellers selling multiple copies of the same knife over and over again month after month. I swear i've seen an NYKCA knife and a "collectors club" knife being sold at least 30 or 40 times already (at least one a month or two).....every one in mint condition too.....matter of fact you'd be hard pressed to find signs of age on any of these sellers knives most days. Just where does anyone think all these "like new" vintage knives are coming from?....hmmm. Add to it that both these sellers have a long history with jim parker and his cutlery business/s whom have already been shown to have purchased trade names, tooling, stamps and dies from our beloved but now defunct old businesses upon their liquidation and have unceremoniously used them on new knives in the past.
It makes me sick really.....and to think a collector like roland would think that fakes are good for the hobby makes me even sicker. All the fakes do is cheapen the hobby and cheapen the real thing, IMHO.
I'd rather have the real thing in poor condition than to have a fake that looks like new and have to wonder if my collection was real or was crap.
The real pity is that these abominations, if they are such, will be sold again by these collectors as real someday.
All because they want to believe what they want to believe, regardless if the truth may be staring them in the face and they just cant read the knife or the seller very well.
The real pity is that there is actually a market for parker knives. They could make their knives and mark them with their own brand and be legit, but i guess it is easier and far more profitable to benefit from ignorance.
It makes one wonder why that poor old stamp got "mushy" and had to be retired.
All this is my own opinion and mere speculation, mind you. YMMV.
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Gastonknife
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I do not know sportcolbs and if there is any proof or even reliable facts of any number to indicate he is a "faker" then I will be the first to help string him up. But, you pull 1 thread out from almost 5 years ago and you might suspect that he possibly does this or that, by your own admission of no facts or particulars - there is now a global conspiracy to make an old slip joint, age it, and sell it half a world away. Dude, are you for real? Are there aliens flying around your home too? Listen to yourself. Yes, there are fakes made in china. Yes, there are dealers who do not have the best ethics. I doubt this guy would be around so long if he didn't have satisfied customers. If he has fakes - prove it - get some facts. I'll be glad to go along with you them and condemn him. But, otherwise be sensible and don't accuse anyone on this forum of anything without at least something more than your feelings. It's not right to do so.
Esav Benyamin
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Of course it's right. What kind of proof do you think we can get, send private investigators to China to infiltrate factories? This is a discussion forum. Until we talk about the problem, we can't decide if it exists or what the scale is.
Karda if i make you sick, you must be almost dead from concerns with the millions of children who die every year due to starvation, wars and treatable illnesses.
Fakes exist in every field of collectibles and have done so for a long time. It's why true experts can gain employment from their knowledge and experience.
Fakes add intrigue and therefore interest. They motivate us to examine every knife very closely and to read and learn from each other.
Some fakes are very well done and likely even the true experts get fooled on occasion. Fakes are one aspect of knives that add to making 'mastery' of 'knife knowledge' an ongoing challenge. Challenges feed our interest. Like with skiing, even after 30 or more years there are still subtleties to be discovered, so we keep at it, ever striving for perfect flight.
I am passionate about knives, but it is just my hobby. Corruption in the knife business is of no great importance compared to the great many problems and situations that are truly of significance.
Knifin' is fun.
roland
Fakes exist in every field of collectibles and have done so for a long time. It's why true experts can gain employment from their knowledge and experience.
Fakes add intrigue and therefore interest. They motivate us to examine every knife very closely and to read and learn from each other.
Some fakes are very well done and likely even the true experts get fooled on occasion. Fakes are one aspect of knives that add to making 'mastery' of 'knife knowledge' an ongoing challenge. Challenges feed our interest. Like with skiing, even after 30 or more years there are still subtleties to be discovered, so we keep at it, ever striving for perfect flight.
I am passionate about knives, but it is just my hobby. Corruption in the knife business is of no great importance compared to the great many problems and situations that are truly of significance.
Knifin' is fun.
roland
Listen to me?....lol
Listen to yourselves.
Fakers can be in business for generations. As long as there are suckers to be had that will sing their praises and eagerly buy their fakes. The late jim parker sr. made a carreer of selling fakes along with his own house brand. Both of these sellers were intimately connected with him and mentored by him, one being his own son.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Think what you want to think.
While you are collecting possible fake vintage knives, i will be out there collecting the ones i know are real vintage pieces from individuals and known reputable dealers whom have no connection whatsoever with the parker legacy.
I never said you make me sick, roland, but your attitude that fake knives are somehow good for the hobby is absolutely unbelievable. Then again i realise that people will justify almost anything to themselves to keep from feeling that they were somehow taken for a ride by someone they put trust in. Parker relied on this fact for his whole carreer.
That is very interesting. It is purely speculation, but if he had one stamp for sale, I would be surprised if he doesn't have more. An authentic stamp is not someting the average person just ends up having laying around the house.
If you spend some time in BRL's sub forum, you wil find an amazing number of fakes. I had no idea there was a market for fake slip joints until I did some learnin from BRL... If a person does enough of them, you could make a living doing it. Especially if they are produced for say 8-10 dollars off shore, and sell them for 40-100 dollars.
Absolutely Esav. It is this kind of discussion that helps us all expand our knowledge base. When I wrote this thread, I really hadn't given any thought to the fact that the seller may be selling knives that aren't authentic, and honestly didn't even do a search for past posts about this. My only point was for people just getting started, to really pay attention to the listing and the knives. The knives in question, Case red bone knives which are NOT red bone, were spotted immediately, but I have owned my fair share of true red bone Case knives, and it was obvious. A person not well versed in red bone, could think that there were different variations of red bone (which there are), and bought the knife thinking it was something it wasn't . Only to find out later, when they decided to sell, or show someone else the knife, that it isn't what it was suppose to be.
Roland, it is true that there are more important things in life, but for me personally, the act of knowingly selling items that are fake, is still right up there on my list...
As you mention, it is a hobby and suppose to be for fun. However, I personally don't want to have to put that much effort into figuring out whether or not a knife I'm looking at buying is fake. We shouldn't have to worry about that, and I'm not much on gambling. Especially when it is someone that plays on the lack of information and knowledge of people...
I enjoy looking at knives posted in BRL's subforum and trying to figure out if they are fake or not. I do not want to play that game when it is my money though. It is sad to know that th eperson who posted the knife in doubt, also payed money for it. Sometimes quite a bit of money.
I remember reading something that BRL had mentioned before. He said that if a seller uses a red background for their pictures, ther eis a good chance, they are a scammer. While I knw that it may not always be true, it is funny that the sellers in question in thi sthread, use red backgrounds
Karda, when i discover that a knife i have bought is not all original i don't get upset because my ego isn't hurt. (I'm not referring to expenditures of hundreds or thousands of dollars. for those i get a professional consult first).
I try to learn something from every knife i buy and fakes teach.
I don't mind that others have different viewpoints, and feel no need to try to convince anybody of anything. I do enjoy knife discussions because there usually is something to be learned.
I very much appreciate this forum for the the great amount learned in the last 4+ years that i have been a regular here. There is much more that i can learn about knives, but with what i do know, i can spot many of the 're-works' on ebay. There are a great many of them out there.
roland
I try to learn something from every knife i buy and fakes teach.
I don't mind that others have different viewpoints, and feel no need to try to convince anybody of anything. I do enjoy knife discussions because there usually is something to be learned.
I very much appreciate this forum for the the great amount learned in the last 4+ years that i have been a regular here. There is much more that i can learn about knives, but with what i do know, i can spot many of the 're-works' on ebay. There are a great many of them out there.
roland
Gastonknife
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Karda
I do not collect fake knives. I know enough. But, I do not go around calling others names when I know of no facts to substantiate them as well. I do not need you to lead me anywhere - never asked for your help or opinion. Just told you to back up your claims and ease up on the worldwide conspiracy to fool someone about a slipjoint knife. I suppose you know who shot JFK too. Get a grip dude. You are really flaking out.
I do not collect fake knives. I know enough. But, I do not go around calling others names when I know of no facts to substantiate them as well. I do not need you to lead me anywhere - never asked for your help or opinion. Just told you to back up your claims and ease up on the worldwide conspiracy to fool someone about a slipjoint knife. I suppose you know who shot JFK too. Get a grip dude. You are really flaking out.
Why yes, i do happen to know who shot JFK, modern forensics has already proven that beyond doubt.
I never asked for your approval of my speculations. Everyone has the right to make up their own minds about what they collect or whom they buy from. I choose to purchase from those whom do not have a history or legacy of shady dealings, others do not. It is their choice. You rolls the dice and takes your chances. I choose not to support such antics. YMMV.
Apparently, I'm not alone in my speculation:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...y-knife-quot-right-quot?p=2771159#post2771159
If you do a search of Bfc you will turn up no less than 15 threads where sportcolbs knives, integrity and business dealing have been called into question. If anyone is doing business with shady people they take their chances.
I'm sure there is more threads on other forums.
I never asked for your approval of my speculations. Everyone has the right to make up their own minds about what they collect or whom they buy from. I choose to purchase from those whom do not have a history or legacy of shady dealings, others do not. It is their choice. You rolls the dice and takes your chances. I choose not to support such antics. YMMV.
Apparently, I'm not alone in my speculation:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...y-knife-quot-right-quot?p=2771159#post2771159
If you do a search of Bfc you will turn up no less than 15 threads where sportcolbs knives, integrity and business dealing have been called into question. If anyone is doing business with shady people they take their chances.
I'm sure there is more threads on other forums.
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I don't think I would call it a conspiracy. When you think about it, knives would be a great thing to counterfit... They can be made very cheaply off shore, they are small, so you can ship a bunch of them, very cheaply, they don't take up much space, and there is a market.
The seller in question has close to 30,000 transactions, just on Ebay. If you sell 30,000 knives and can make 40-100 dollars on each knife, we are talking close to, or over 1 million dollars. So, if you look at it that way, there is some motivation for people that have no morals.
Lets look at Buck knives. Outstanding knives, and reasonably priced. If you search in the Buck subforum, you will find various knives that are fake. Some are being sold overseas, but others have made there way here to the U.S. We aren't talking expensive knives, but obviously someone thought there was enough money to be made, to fake what are reasonably inexpensive knives...
It sounds like you are in denial about this. When a seller has had people questioning their practices for 8 or 9 years, there might just be something to it. They convict people of murder without having a body. We just had that happen localy last month. I don't think we need to have the knife in hand, to come to a conclusion that maybe there is something wrong. YMMV
Yep... I have to say, my curiosity is getting the best of me. I'm going to pull up the knives that the seller has listed (assuming I haven't been blocked from his listings
), not just red bone Case knives, and see if anything looks out of whack. If I don't find anything, it doesn't mean its not there, just that I may not be able to pick up on it. I am far from an expert on any knives, so its not impossible.I am not surprised, but I have not gotten any response from Ebay after reporting the listings
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The seller also doesn't get any notification of who reported the listing, so he wouldn't block you for that. All he'll know is that ebay yanked the listing if they do. If they're fakes it makes take several people to convince ebay. They won't take just one person's word in case that person is lying or just doesn't know.
Karda, you said it yourself you are speculating. Why not post here again if and when you can show proof of wrongdoing. Speculation can be very dangerous, just ask a commodities broker. Bottom line is you are guessing there is wrong doing, which in my mind does not warrant besmerching anyones reputation. The other threads you have provided links to refer to inuendo and more speculation....not proof. It just seems fair that instead of reposting the same theories over and over again that solid proof be provided.
If and when i find irrefutable proof i will post it when one of you posts proof that either of the sellers mentioned doesnt and never has done what i and others with better knowledge than i have speculated they may be doing. Until then i will take what i've read about these two from reputable sources and stay far away. It doesnt mean anyone else has to. We all are old enough to make our own choices and spend our money where we please. If you notice...both these sellers at the very least have some vintage blades listed, with used blades that have had the life buffed out of them to gain the highest price possible. Yet neither disclose this fact in their ad's. Caveat Emptor.
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I have no reason to prove or disprove anything. You seem to forget that from yourself and the OP have come accusations and summations based on guesses, hunches, innuendo, speculation or whatever else it is called. The burden of proof lies with the both of you, all I am saying is that attacking someones reputation via the Internet should carry the responsibility of actual proof of wrongdoing, just like in the real world. If they are proven to have done wrong I would be the first to string em up, but stringing someone up without proof I believe is called a lynching. The Internet and these forums are a great place for learning, but the anonymity of the Internet far too often allows one individual or group to crucify someone with nothing more than a hunch. As for the "I and others with better knowledge" remark, I get my knowledge the old fashioned way, by studying the fact based evidence.
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