Edge Pro Matrix resin bond diamond stones

Discussion in 'Maintenance, Tinkering & Embellishment' started by Diemaker, Jun 14, 2018.

  1. Wingchun

    Wingchun

    5
    Mar 25, 2020
    Hi. I’m new to the forum so ‘hi’ everyone. I’m kind of new to sharpening to. Thank you very much to all of you that share all your experiences and help beginners to start with such precious informations.
    And special thanks to Diemaker for being so open and accessible.
    I have knives with VG10, S35VN, M390, CTS-XHP, SG-2. Will the diamond matrix be ok with all those steel ?
    I’ve read all the thread but like I said I’m beginner so not sure I’ve got all of it.
    my second question is directly for David. Have you released your bench stone yet ? Is there informations somewhere about it ?

    again a big thanks to everyone
     
  2. Diemaker

    Diemaker KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    609
    Apr 28, 2017
    To be honest I haven't sharpened any of the steels you list but do know the first 3 would be excellent choices for the Matrix stones. They work fine on any steel that will hold an edge, IME, so far. The bench stones are still in the works. I have 200lbs of aluminum cut up into blanks and am currently programming the fixtures I will use to hold them when I machine them. I am lousy at estimating how long a project will take so no idea when these will be available, but all my spare time is focused on getting them done. All of my suppliers are considered essential businesses so I shouldn't have problems there. Once I am getting the bodies machined I will post an update on my bench stone thread.
     
  3. Wingchun

    Wingchun

    5
    Mar 25, 2020
    Thanks. Didn’t see the bench stone thread, sorry.
    Take care
     
  4. Diemaker

    Diemaker KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    609
    Apr 28, 2017
    Nothing to be sorry of, it is pretty hidden. I'm pretty embarrassed about how long this has drug on.
     
  5. Wingchun

    Wingchun

    5
    Mar 25, 2020
    Nothing to be embarrassed with. You have to do it the right way otherwise it make no sense. You will just have to be ready to follow when you will release them cause you should sell plenty.
     
  6. ygorshenin

    ygorshenin

    2
    Apr 2, 2020
    Hi, Diemaker!

    First of all, thank you very much for the stones you made - I bought 2300 and 4000 and they're very good. I used them for finishing S30V (59-60 HRC), M390 (60-62 HRC) and 20CV (60-62 HRC) - and the finish was quite good, but a little bit toothy. I think, the reason is that I used edge leading passes, not edge trailing. I know, you wrote that Matrix stones above 1100 must be used with edge trailing passes only, but I do not understand how to remove burr with edge trailing passes. With edge leading passes I can remove the burr quickly, but with edge trailing passes it seems that the burr just folds back and forth, but is still here.

    I had similar problems with the burr on some steels when I used Edge Pro polishing tapes - they just create a burr and do not remove it with edge trailing passes.

    So, my question is - could you please explain how to remove burr on Edge Pro with Matrix stones and edge trailing passes? I really like these stones and would like to use them properly.

    UPDATE: probably I use Matrix stones with edge-trailing passes incorrectly. I switch to the Matrix 2300 after Boride CS-HD 1200, and I use it in the following manner:
    * ~6 edge-trailing strokes on the first side
    * ~6 edge-trailing strokes on the second side
    * ~6 edge-trailing strokes on the first side
    * ~6 edge-trailing strokes on the second side
    etc... and the large burr starts to appear.

    Probably I do too many passes - I just read that you suggest just do ten or so pulling strokes on each side. Am I right?
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
  7. Diemaker

    Diemaker KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    609
    Apr 28, 2017
    I have been recommending edge trailing passes with any grit once you reach the apex. No reason not to and quite a few reasons against edge leading passes. I rarely have problems with burrs and only have found one good steel that had much of any burr with the Matrix stones, and it was bad. It was 15v and I was told it was the heat treat as later tries didn't burr nearly as much. The way I remove a burr is with a strop, what is on that strop depends on the steel. Usually, it is bare but I will add 1-micron diamond for super steels, Maxamet in my case. Diamond is ok for lesser steels but limit yourself to 2 or 3 passes as your apex will disappear fast. IMO the worst way to remove a burr is with an edge leading pass as it will fold the burr between the steel and stone damaging the fine apex.

    Yep, 10 strokes per 3" of blade is enough, even with light pressure, to remove the scratches from the last Matrix stone, as long as everything is consistent and repeating. It doesn't matter how hard your steel is, including Maxamet and ceramics. This should still be true with your 2300 after the Boride 1200 but do confirm. I do all of my strokes on one side instead of flipping back and forth. When I change stones to the next finer grit I flip the knife so I don't grind on the same side twice in a row, this does help with burr removal.
     
  8. ygorshenin

    ygorshenin

    2
    Apr 2, 2020
    Thanks for you reply! Yesterday evening I tried to refresh the edge on my folding knife - 20CV, 60-62 HRC. I remember the angle of the micro-bevel, so I started directly with Matrix 2300. 10 pull strokes on the one side, flip, 10 pull strokes on the other side. Same for Matrix 4000, then I switched to the leather strop with Dialux White compound. 4 pull strokes on the one side, 4 pull strokes on the other side. And I get a wonderful edge! No micro-chips, very smooth, cuts fantastically! I think I started to understand how to use finishing Matrix stones.

    Thank you again, you made wonderful stones. Now I'm thinking about buying other Matrix stones in addition to 2300 and 4000 :D
     
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  9. jp0319

    jp0319

    10
    Mar 25, 2006
    Hello all, This thread is great and I've read it from beginning to end. I want to get the Matrix stones for my Edge Pro, but I'm really not keen on buying the entire set at this time. Diemaker (or anyone else), is there a recommended set up of stones if you're not getting them all? I thought I saw that mentioned earlier in the thread but I cannot find it now.

    Edit: I was thinking of getting four stones total.
     
  10. Blues

    Blues Lapsed SuperMod / Cattle Knife Rustler Staff Member Super Mod

    Oct 2, 1998
    What's your goal? Polished edges or something with a bit more bite? If you don't need polishing you might skip the two highest grit hones. Or if you don't need the 80 grit, you can just skip the lowest and highest.

    Just depends on what you already have on the coarse end, and the high end if polishing is your thing.
     
  11. jp0319

    jp0319

    10
    Mar 25, 2006
    Th
    Thanks for the reply. I'd "like" polished edges but its not my priority, I have the Apex stone set from 150-1000 and the polishing tapes right now.
     
  12. Mr.Wizard

    Mr.Wizard

    Feb 28, 2015
    @jp0319 It appears to be a thoughtfully spaced series of grits without any superfluous elements. You could probably get by with skipping stones but it could take a really long time to remove scratches from the previous one if you are working the entire bevel. Perhaps you could focus your attention on wherever you find the stock stones lacking? For example if you find reprofiling slow or messy but are happy with the polish tapes, make sure to get the 80 grit stone. Or if you don't like fiddling with polish tapes get the 2300 and 4000.
     
  13. Diemaker

    Diemaker KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    609
    Apr 28, 2017
    It depends on how polished you want to go but 250 to 2300 would by my pick, with the 80 next and 4k last. If you are hard on your knives or sharpen for others you will want the 80 as your coarsest stone. Since these are diamond and you really want to use light pressure you should start coarser rather than using more pressure with your first stone, they just work better this way, both the stones and what they do to your knives.

    You can skip one grit and get away with an extra 50% more strokes, 15 instead of 10 per grit per 3" of blade, but your angles have to repeat perfectly. The grit progression we picked is good for the real world. After all these years we, EP and I, still use what we sell in our own sharpening. After all we both have Matrix stones in 13 different grits to choose from so if we wanted something different it is right there on the shelf.

    I strongly urge you not to jump around on Matrix grits. Wherever you start continue with even steps, they will work much better this way. They are designed as a set, there are no extras in the middle, only on the ends.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
    scottc3 and Mr.Wizard like this.
  14. jp0319

    jp0319

    10
    Mar 25, 2006
    Maybe I'll just get the 250-2300 now and add the 80 and 4000 later when I get the money...
     
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  15. RustyIron

    RustyIron

    103
    Dec 4, 2019
    If that hits your price point, that's the best mix, in my opinion. For me, when I go to 1.1k, it's nice, but not up to my standards. 2.3k gives me edges that make me happy. And when I go to 4k, it's icing on the cake.

    250 is the biggest I go, but sometimes I wish I had the 80. When working on a blade that really needs some reprofiliing, 250 doesn't quite cut it.
     
  16. Diemaker

    Diemaker KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    609
    Apr 28, 2017
    I always finish with a leather strop and feel it is just as important as the last stone used. If you ever need to move much metal then you are not going to be happy just having the 250, it is really slow at reprofiling.
     
  17. Mr.Wizard

    Mr.Wizard

    Feb 28, 2015
    Plain leather, not pasted, I presume?
     
  18. Diemaker

    Diemaker KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    609
    Apr 28, 2017
    Generally but I only have one strop right now and it is lightly loaded with 1-micron diamond. It polishes up the bevels nicely but if you look at the apex under a microscope you won't like what you see, at least for anything short of "super" steels.
     
  19. Mr.Wizard

    Mr.Wizard

    Feb 28, 2015
    I know from scienceofsharp that no edge looks smooth under enough magnification but how are "super" steels different?
     
  20. Diemaker

    Diemaker KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    609
    Apr 28, 2017
    They are more abrasion resistant. With "normal" steels the apex will quickly disappear as you are trying to polish the bevel. The first time I tried polishing with a 1-micron diamond loaded leather strop I was watching what was happening with my microscope. After about 20 passes on each side the bevel was getting polished but it was also getting a lot smaller, strange. I had removed about .02" of the bevel and convexed the edge to the point I had to increase the angle to shave by around 15-20 degrees, on a guided sharpener at the same angle as the stones. I love strops but if your not careful you can really screw up a good edge.
     
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