Edge Pro Matrix resin bond diamond stones

That’s great advice. Most of us don’t have the magnifying capability to see an edge that close up. For the longest time, until you touched upon it in another thread, I couldn’t understand why some of my stropped edges seemed less sharp than they were before I started.

I have this stuff called nanocloth, that I bought early on because people smarter than me said to. It’s a little squishy, which I’ve come to think might not be such a great characteristic.
 
What kind of glass is recommended for flattening the diamond matrix stones. I’ve got the 240 grit aluminum oxide but not sure if I need float glass or plate glass or?
Also should I flatten the diamond matrix stones before the first use?

I’ve got the complete set coming and I’m really looking forward to using them on the tsprof ko3.
Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. Lots of great info here.
 
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Diemaker said:
EP dresses all the Matrix stones before shipping them so they are ready to go. Remember light pressure, only edge trailing strokes once you reach the apex, keep them wet while in use, and about 10-15 strokes per 3" of blade length after the first stone. Can't wait to hear what you think of them!
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Diemaker said:
My favorite flats are Cambria engineered quartz. They develop a nice texture that really enhances the cutting action of the abrasive.
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I think any kind of flat glass will work too however.
 
@ Diemaker Wow Wade, that is a pretty damning review! I wish you would have come here and posted your thoughts about the Matrix stones as you were using them so I could maybe help out. They are totally different than the Venevs and need to be used differently for their best performance. I do have a few questions, please. I am only listing for clarity, not to be overbearing, I am really interested in your answers.

1 - What grits did you get?
2 - How much time, how many knives did you spend with them?
3 - How many times did you dress them? Did you use around 240 grit loose abrasive on a flat plate?
4 - Did you use light pressure?
5 - Did you use only edge trailing strokes to refine?
6 - Can you give me a link to the Facebook group that you refer to?

Man, you got to talk to me here, I need to understand how you based your opinion on my stones, please. I know how they stack up against Venevs and if you find they performed so poorly then something or things were done wrong. I certainly won't be saying the Matrix stones are the best since there is no such thing. It's kind of like ice cream flavors, we all have our favorites. If this is too much thread drift then let's take it up in the Matrix stone thread, which sickpuppy1 linked to in post #6.
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I the guy I got the stones from sold me a whole set that he used only 3 times when I got them I tried using them the way they were then I tried dressing which didn't help and it was with 240 aluminum oxide powder that the guy go from edge pro's site when he ordered them.

I had a full set of your stones and tried them all,I used light pressure when sharpening with the Matrix stones and I never like to use a lot of pressure when sharpening with any stone as I feel it give poor result's.
I like to use trailing edge strokes when finishing with most of the stones I use and I did the same thing with the Matrix stones.

If you go to Edge Snobs on Facebook and look up Scott Gunn he did a review on them a while back,he doesn't think your stones are terrible and he found the same thing that I did that the Matrix stones don't give the edge as much bite as the Venev stones,Scot won't care if you join the group and reach out to him.
 
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wade7575 said:
I the guy I got the stones from sold me a whole set that he used only 3 times when I got them I tried using them the way they were then I tried dressing which didn't help and it was with 240 aluminum oxide powder that the guy go from edge pro's site when he ordered them.

I had a full set of your stones and tried them all,I used light pressure when sharpening with the Matrix stones and I never like to use a lot of pressure when sharpening with any stone as I feel it give poor result's.
I like to use trailing edge strokes when finishing with most of the stones I use and I did the same thing with the Matrix stones.

If you go to Edge Snobs on Facebook and look up Scott Gunn he did a review on them a while back,he doesn't think your stones are terrible and he found the same thing that I did that the Matrix stones don't give the edge as much bite as the Venev stones,Scot won't care if you join the group and reach out to him.
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It sounds like you did everything right so I will just chalk it up to you like a different flavor of ice cream. If we all liked the same thing there wouldn't be nearly as many stone choices to play with. Keep in mind the lightest pressure a Venev will still cut at is the most pressure you want to use on a Matrix stone, they are totally different in this regard. As for "bite" what grits did you finish with and why not just step down a grit, or two?
 
Just bought a TSPROFT K03 and need a set stones for Harder steel so i bought the Edge Pro DM . I have a Japanese Kamo R2 steel 210 mm has a few very small nicks but very sharp. My question is what grit on the DM should i start with? As you can see I'm a newbie LOL.
 
Mr.Wizard said:
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I think any kind of flat glass will work too however.
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I use a large ceramic tile. It works fine.

fools1234 said:
Just bought a TSPROFT K03 and need a set stones for Harder steel so i bought the Edge Pro DM . I have a Japanese Kamo R2 steel 210 mm has a few very small nicks but very sharp. My question is what grit on the DM should i start with? As you can see I'm a newbie LOL.
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You could try with the 250 grit stone, but you probably want the 80 to remove those nicks. Go light with the 80 and use it only to get until the edge angle is set and the nicks are gone. If you don't know what I mean by "until the edge angle is set" I can elaborate.

Pay some attention with the 250 to remove the scratches from the 80. I usually do back and forth strokes with the 250 and then finish with edge trailing only. This is just to remove the 80 grit scratches more easily. It's not required. For me the 2300 is optional for most steels and the 4000 is unnecessary for all of them. I still use it, but it's not required. For at least 1/2 the steels I've tried the 1100 leaves a great edge. For some it's a little toothy.
 
Wingchun said:
Hi. I’m new to the forum so ‘hi’ everyone. I’m kind of new to sharpening to. Thank you very much to all of you that share all your experiences and help beginners to start with such precious informations.
And special thanks to Diemaker for being so open and accessible.
I have knives with VG10, S35VN, M390, CTS-XHP, SG-2. Will the diamond matrix be ok with all those steel ?
I’ve read all the thread but like I said I’m beginner so not sure I’ve got all of it.
my second question is directly for David. Have you released your bench stone yet ? Is there informations somewhere about it ?

again a big thanks to everyone
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I have (and do) sharpened all those except SG-2. These stones are great with all of them. You don't need diamonds for VG10 or XPH, but they do a nice job. I use my EP matrix for almost everything because I prefer the speed and the edge they produce.

Diemaker said:
I have been recommending edge trailing passes with any grit once you reach the apex. No reason not to and quite a few reasons against edge leading passes. I rarely have problems with burrs and only have found one good steel that had much of any burr with the Matrix stones, and it was bad. It was 15v and I was told it was the heat treat as later tries didn't burr nearly as much. The way I remove a burr is with a strop, what is on that strop depends on the steel. Usually, it is bare but I will add 1-micron diamond for super steels, Maxamet in my case. Diamond is ok for lesser steels but limit yourself to 2 or 3 passes as your apex will disappear fast. IMO the worst way to remove a burr is with an edge leading pass as it will fold the burr between the steel and stone damaging the fine apex.

Yep, 10 strokes per 3" of blade is enough, even with light pressure, to remove the scratches from the last Matrix stone, as long as everything is consistent and repeating. It doesn't matter how hard your steel is, including Maxamet and ceramics. This should still be true with your 2300 after the Boride 1200 but do confirm. I do all of my strokes on one side instead of flipping back and forth. When I change stones to the next finer grit I flip the knife so I don't grind on the same side twice in a row, this does help with burr removal.
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10 passes on the same side? I'll have try this and see if there's any noticeable difference in edge quality. I generally do 3-4 per side, then 2 per side, then 1 per side for until I'm at 10 or more passes for each side. The last few passes are as light as I can go and burrs are rarely a problem. Not flipping would certainly be easier. Does flipping not produce a better edge when done on the last stone? The remaining burr would have to be smaller.
 
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wade7575 said:
I the guy I got the stones from sold me a whole set that he used only 3 times when I got them I tried using them the way they were then I tried dressing which didn't help and it was with 240 aluminum oxide powder that the guy go from edge pro's site when he ordered them.

I had a full set of your stones and tried them all,I used light pressure when sharpening with the Matrix stones and I never like to use a lot of pressure when sharpening with any stone as I feel it give poor result's.
I like to use trailing edge strokes when finishing with most of the stones I use and I did the same thing with the Matrix stones.

If you go to Edge Snobs on Facebook and look up Scott Gunn he did a review on them a while back,he doesn't think your stones are terrible and he found the same thing that I did that the Matrix stones don't give the edge as much bite as the Venev stones,Scot won't care if you join the group and reach out to him.
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I haven't read that FB page. You first have to define "bite" and make sure we're talking about the same thing. My experience with the Vanev stones (I have 3 of them, not the full set) is that they work well. They tend to produce a more "toothy" edge for me, which is what I assume the Edge Snobs guy means by "bite." I prefer a toothy edge for most uses for just this reason. I'll stop at the 1100 matrix stone for many of my blades. After the 4000 stone + a strop the edge sometimes won't dig into a flexible but smooth surface, like a nylon rope. It so smooth that it doesn't have that "bite."

My take is that EP stones deliver a smoother surface (finer scratches) at the same grit as the Venev stones. Neither is better - they're different. I don't want nor expect any bite off a 5 micron stone + 1 micron strop. My preference is to get rid of scratches as early as possible in the sharpening process, and to not introduce deep scratches when I can avoid it. For these reasons I prefer the EP stones. If the EP stones didn't exist, I'm sure I would be happy with the Vanev stones.

I can't compare longevity as I haven't used the Vanev stones enough. After reprofiling dozens of high vanadium edges (probably ~40) and sharpening hundreds of knives my EP stones still work great and look close to new if I put in the effort to clean them (which I do rarely).
 
fools1234 - For removing metal you can't beat the 80 in the Matrix lineup, but be careful with it as it can cause random scratches above the bevel from loose diamonds. This is most likely to happen after dressing and otherwise doesn't happen much at all, but be aware of it if you REALLY don't want it happening on your knife. I wouldn't try to get all of the nicks out of the blade with the 80, I would leave the last bit for the 250 but don't try to refine the edge until the 650. The 250 is coarse enough that the apex crumbles off before refining, microscopes are great for seeing this stuff.

David Richardson - So far I just do all my passes on one side then flip to save time, I also always finish with the 4k. I always deburr with a strop, generally bare leather, and think doing one or two passes per side with the final stone may help, how much of course depends on the steel. This is something I want to try the next time I sharpen some knives, it has been months since I last sharpened a knife I have been so busy. I agree that the burr should be smaller but repeatability with the angle when flipping may detract from this so that is the source of my reservation. With these sharpeners, a .005" difference in edge height will affect how the bevel is sharpened. As in if you sharpened a .05" wide bevel with the 4k stone then swapped to an identical stone that was .005" thicker and took another 2 passes you could see with a microscope that only 20-40% of the bevel was touched by the second stone. This is with my sharpener with strong magnets and rubber on the table so my knives are pretty stable.
 
Diemaker said:
fools1234 - For removing metal you can't beat the 80 in the Matrix lineup, but be careful with it as it can cause random scratches above the bevel from loose diamonds. This is most likely to happen after dressing and otherwise doesn't happen much at all, but be aware of it if you REALLY don't want it happening on your knife. I wouldn't try to get all of the nicks out of the blade with the 80, I would leave the last bit for the 250 but don't try to refine the edge until the 650. The 250 is coarse enough that the apex crumbles off before refining, microscopes are great for seeing this stuff.

David Richardson - So far I just do all my passes on one side then flip to save time, I also always finish with the 4k. I always deburr with a strop, generally bare leather, and think doing one or two passes per side with the final stone may help, how much of course depends on the steel. This is something I want to try the next time I sharpen some knives, it has been months since I last sharpened a knife I have been so busy. I agree that the burr should be smaller but repeatability with the angle when flipping may detract from this so that is the source of my reservation. With these sharpeners, a .005" difference in edge height will affect how the bevel is sharpened. As in if you sharpened a .05" wide bevel with the 4k stone then swapped to an identical stone that was .005" thicker and took another 2 passes you could see with a microscope that only 20-40% of the bevel was touched by the second stone. This is with my sharpener with strong magnets and rubber on the table so my knives are pretty stable.
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Thanks for the feedback, and good point. I use a drill stop collar and reset the guide height for each stone. I mark my blade with sharpie to position it in the same place on the table. I seriously doubt I can within 0.005" of stone thickness even when resetting. I use magnets and 3 layers of tape. I had not considered rubber on the table. Good idea.
 
Hello everyone.
Next week I'll be getting a TSProf and I'm looking for stones that suit my sharpening needs. I sharpen a lot of european kitchen knives (for friends etc.), but also have folders with harder PM steels. One option would be to get a set of 3 Choseras and get some diamond stones to tackle the hard to grind steels. I have no intention to polish bevels, I sharpen knives as "users". I don't mind some bite to my edges and looks are not a concern for me.
Now my question is, can I get away with just the diamond stones or would you recommend getting an additional stone set (like the Choseras for soft steels)? I never strop my edges and remove burrs on the stones. I'd like the no-strop approach. ;-)
Would it make sense for my needs to get a finer stone than the 1100 or maybe even stop at the 650?
Thanks for any help.
 
I think the Matrix stones would be all you need without any reservations for the steels you will sharpen. I think you really need to go one stone past the 650, it will add a lot to the keeness of the edge. I would also say deburr with a strop vs a stone, it really helps with the integrity of the apex. If you use a final edge-leading stroke to deburr it tends to fold the burr between the stone and bevel causing all kinds of problems. Keep in mind that you REALLY need to use edge-trailing strokes only once you apex, both for the apex and the stones.

Another reason to only use the Matrix stones is because they don't shed grit and don't make as much of a mess. Once you get used to this it's hard to go back.
 
Are the edge-trailing strokes something specific to your stones? I've apexed edge-leading with metal bonded diamond plates before and was quiet happy with the outcome. Featherlight touch is of course a must for this.

I'm always in for mess-free sharpening. ;-)
 
I don't think the trailing edge strokes are specific to the Matrix stones but perhaps more specific to diamond vs less aggressive abrasives. I have observed that edge-trailing strokes are less likely to cause micro-chipping vs edge-leading. This is something I have observed sharpening a lot of different knives from steel to ceramic. It seems to be more of an issue the finer the stone, but maybe that is just the limits of my microscope. Sure wish I had a SEM, that was easy to use.
 
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