Extremely limited in my choice of blades

[Reeek]

Originally Posted by Reeek
That's how Scots are. I worked for one in my early 20's- they come off like ass holes all the time. Not sure if it's genetics or just customary . . .

F*ck you racist c*nt.

I'd like to explain myself to the members here who I consider a remote family. When I made this comment I was really just trying to hit back at the OP when he started to get snappy early in the thread. I do not consider myself a racist and I apologize to everyone for my comment and how it sounded. In fact I am still upset by the notion that I sounded that way. I lost my cool a little bit and tried to fight back and I was out of line. I received an infraction for the comment and I accept it. Just because my old boss was hard to work for does not warrant a blanket insult to all Scots.

I'm sorry.

 

[GregS]

bear spray is more or less the same stuff as mace/pepper spray, am I correct?
If so it's in the same boat as carrying a gun over here. So unless they are an on-duty LEO, it's somewhat outside of our OP's desire to carry something more or less within the law (and I would assume even more difficult to get your hands on than guns, on account of the lower demand, it's comparitive newness, and lack of legitimate examples to steal for black-market sale). If they are an LEO, it worries me their asking this question.

Crap:grumpy:, I would've never thought bear spray (same thing as mace and pepper spray btw) would be illegal, anywhere. A stout walking stick was a very good suggestion. Plus you can twirl it like a pimp. Best of luck, I'm sorry your laws are so invasive.

 

[mdauben]

Yeah but they will still be classed in the same bunch as lock knives. Believe me. I'll get done. At the least get it taken off me, I don't want that either.

Why? They are not lockblades and they are specifically equal to or less than 3 inches, which meets the restrictions you listed. They were specifically designed for the UK market to meet those requirements.

The spyderco uk hovers just on the grey area of the law, but when it comes to the discretion of the cop, he will always take it off you, at least.

Well, if these knives, which are specifically designed to meet the letter of the law are not safe from over-zealous LE personnel, then would not anything else useful you could have be equally subject to confiscation or arrest?

And another thing that bears mentioning, if you do use a knife, any knife- in the UK for self defense, chances are very good that you'll be arrested and charged. No matter how justified. You're supposed to roll into the fetal postion and take your lumps when attacked in the UK. "Self defense" doesn't play well there- the laws favor the criminals.

Ugh! Thats pretty sad.

 

[Dagon]

Yeah Glasgow is a great holiday hot spot.

Actually when my gf and I visited it a few years ago we liked it quite a bit. And, next to Charles Rennie Mackintosh buildings I especially liked The Corinthian: probably the nicest bar I've ever been.

Maybe the smallest douk-douk. Around 2 1/2" blade, slipjoint with a strong spring. Looks more like something grandpa would carry, rather than a hooligan.

Douk-douks are awesome cutting tools, and the slipjoint is so stiff you can almost consider it as a lock. I think that of my 100-something knives, the douk-douk was the sharpest out of the box.

I have an orange UKPK, it's great and here is another -very stylish- recommendation: the Moki Thuja UK. It looks like a locking 2.5" knife but it isn't. Moki's are always extremely well finished and very sharp. A top brand, and the design is stylish, a cop finding it on your body ***might*** not consider it as a weapon:

By the way, Jaymz, I grabbed this image from the UK based online dealer www.heinnie.com, and I have perfect service experience with them: very fast shipping and reasonable shipping costs. The Moki costs 62,95 pounds at their site. The UKPK costs 84.95 pounds there. And if you still are afraid of losing your knife to an unreasonable police agent, there is always the classic, strong yet elegant Victorinox Soldier, which is amazing at the price, and anyway you should buy it while you still can. I carry mine as often as my other knives combined...

Finally, I do wonder, if you get caught with a locking knife in scotland, and assuming you look decent and are not aggressive or drunk, would you get "only" a fine (how much?) or would you get prison time? I also wonder if they're as strict if you'd be walking in the beautiful nature of the scottish highlands with it.

 

[Nathan Gould]

It's not really for scaring people.

I live in a rough area, just outside Glasgow and if I get attacked by a few people, having a little blade will give me an advantage in a scuffle. Providing I can hang onto it.

be careful saying things like that in public, in the uk anything is an offensive weapon if it can be proved that you carry it with the intention of causing harm wether in self defence or not.

I'd just reiterate that you intended to use it to scare away attackers not cause harm.

 

[YayILikePie]

I've heard good things about Shing knives. Seems like it'd be a bit on the pricey side for EDC, at least for me.

 

[moonwilson]

The obvious solution is that you need to get yo' self some mad ninja skillzz. When some yob gives you guff- ROUNDHOUSE KICK! :thumbup:

 

[SecSpyral]

The advice was given, if you do not like the advice, then I suggest you look elsewhere. Get a Spyderco Urban or UKPK. They fit your bill and are the BEST knives for your situation. In fact, you can even get a Spyderco Slip-Joint (like the SAK knives) NON-LOCKING knife that can not be opened one handed. And if that's not safe enough than I don't know what is.

 

[phaserrifle]

Crap:grumpy:, I would've never thought bear spray (same thing as mace and pepper spray btw) would be illegal, anywhere. A stout walking stick was a very good suggestion. Plus you can twirl it like a pimp. Best of luck, I'm sorry your laws are so invasive.

well, half of it is we don't have any bears to spray. we don't have any big predators, unless you count the mythical big cats which supposedly stalk various places such as dartmoor, exmoor, the new forest ect. or humans.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

I'd just reiterate that you intended to use it to scare away attackers not cause harm.

I cannot stress strongly enough that brandishing a knife to scare away attackers is a very, very bad idea. In any society.

Once you do so, you become the aggressor with the deadly weapon, and whatever damage they do to you can be largely discounted by the law, since you were the one who escalated the situation.

Furthermore, if you are dealing with real bad guys, waving a blade at them will only exite contempt. A real tough guy would palm it until contact, and the first time they should see it is when at least one of them is bleeding.

 

[Guerrilla Sauce]

Right, this has already been said but let's see if I can consolidate the advice given into one post.

Firstly; it is illegal, under the Prevention of Crime Act 1953, to have with you any offensive weapon in a public place in the UK. An offensive weapon is defined as anything purposely made as a weapon, anything adapted to be a weapon, and anything intended to be used as a weapon. Therefore, anything carried for use in a self defence situation is illegal; be it a walking stick, pocketknife, umbrella or any other otherwise 'legal' object.

In order to arrest someone under this law the police need 'reasonable suspicion' that you intend to use the object as a weapon. This makes carrying pens, walking sticks, and other objects that aren't immediately obvious as weapons much easier to get away with than any knife which, due to the media, are going to draw unwelcome scrutiny. On deciding whether your knife is meant as a weapon, the officer will take into account a) your actions b) your environment c) your appearance and d) your demeanour.

If you're a presentable, polite person simply going about your daily business in a small market town, then the pocket knife probably isn't going to be taken to be a weapon (in this situation I doubt you'd ever be searched anyway). If you're walking around Glasgow at night in a football shirt, shouting at strangers after having a few too many drinks, then you're probably going to spend the night in the cells.

Once in a position where you have to defend yourself, everything within reach becomes a 'legal object', providing you don't use 'excessive' force to defend yourself*.... however, simply being involved in a fight means you're going to have to explain yourself to the police. Stabbing someone with a pen makes your story of self defence that much more credible. If you're unlucky enough not to have any witnesses (or even worse, the only witnesses are the other guys mates) after using a knife in self-defence... well, good luck trying to convince a British jury you're not the bad guy (again, a 'well respected' person may be easily believed, while a stereotypical 'yob' probably won't be).

Secondly; Section 139 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 makes it illegal to have any knife, other than a non-locking sub 3" bladed pocketknife**, with you in public. If you have any other knife in public then you have to provide a 'good reason' for having it. There are no rules as to what a 'good reason' is, but it's generally something you would a) need that knife, at that time for b) be able to prove. As an example, saying you need the knife to go fishing isn't a good reason unless you can prove you're going/coming from fishing (you have other fishing gear with you). Because of the wording of the law, it isn't down to a police officer to prove you don't have a good reason, but it's down to you to prove that you do.




So my advice to you. If you want an EDC knife, go with the Spyderco UKPK, Urban or a Swiss Army Knife. If you want a weapon, be more creative.


* By excessive, it usually means really excessive; you're allowed pre-emptive strikes, and anything in your power to disable them. Stamping on them once they're unconscious, or stabbing them after you've broken both their arms... stuff like that is excessive. A lot of people take it to mean you can only defend yourself after they've hit you first, or that you can't use a weapon if they're unarmed, but that's just not true.

** Locking folders are classed in law as fixed-blades. Someone put it to a judge that, just because it's capable of folding it doesn't mean it's a folding knife; it's only a folding knife if it's foldable at all times without having to interact with the knife in any way other than applying pressure to the blade. The judge agreed.

 

[riffraff]

[...] it's only a folding knife if it's foldable at all times without having to interact with the knife in any way other than applying pressure to the blade. The judge agreed.

I'm...speechless.

 

[Jaymz]

Well Guerilla Sauce, thanks for all that info.

I read every post since I was last here and there is a lot of good advice.

Dagon - Thanks for the links to the UK site. I'll probably end up getting something a bit less expensive than what you recommended though.
Maybe this, although not from thebladeshop, as advised!
http://www.thebladeshop.com/Buck_Parallex_2_8_Black_Stainless_Handle_Black_B_p/318bttx.htm
Or this
http://www.thebladeshop.com/CRKT_Gallagher_Badger_Green_Black_G10_Handle_Pla_p/cr7120.htm
Inexpensive, so if I get it confiscated, I've not lost much.

I cannot stress strongly enough that brandishing a knife to scare away attackers is a very, very bad idea. In any society.

Once you do so, you become the aggressor with the deadly weapon, and whatever damage they do to you can be largely discounted by the law, since you were the one who escalated the situation.

Furthermore, if you are dealing with real bad guys, waving a blade at them will only exite contempt. A real tough guy would palm it until contact, and the first time they should see it is when at least one of them is bleeding.

I would never brandish a knife to scare away attackers, as I have said before. I don't know about being a tough guy, but I'm 6ft 1 and about 16 and a half stone and definitely not soft.

The last part of your post is bang on. I never ever want to have to use a knife, but yes, Glasgow is a nice place in the City Centre (some of the time). but on the other hand, the surrounding areas are lets say "rough as fuck".

It wasn't penned "THE MURDER CITY" in 2003 for nothing. Sad but true.
I've been threatened at knife point on 2 occasions.

Here is a link to some info on the disgusting crime rates and comparative figures.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1331201/posts

For example, last month, I saw a guy getting beat up by 4 or 5 people from my living room and kitchen window. The fight had started in my neighbours house and spilled into the street.

Granted that the guy getting beat up was a complete asshole and is always up in other peoples business - unlike me, who keeps himself to himself. I don't even know my neighbours names!

I won't go into too much detail about how badly this guy got beat up, but below is the dent in the car that he got rammed head first into.

And jut to go back to Guerilla Sauce's post - My appearance can sometimes be a bit "dodgy". Although I'm not a scumbag, I do like my hoodies, hats, baggy jeans and loose Timberland boots, some may say "wigger".

As I've said before - the area I live in is rough, but I do dress differently from the norm of "chavs" or "neds". My style is distinguishably different from the stereotype.

Another stereotype that maybe could be included is the fact that I suffer from depression. I don't exactly have the happiest or most jolly face. Maybe that would go against me. In fact, if you look up depression in the Merck Medical Manual, it states that the depressed person may appear frowning and with down turned mouth!

But I'm smartening up as time goes on and dressing more respectably.

I have no criminal record and live a fairly respectable life and have goals and aspiration and I'm engaged, with my girlfriend living with me.

I in no way needed several reiterations, about brandishing a knife to scare attackers being the wrong idea, as I made it very clear that this was not the case.

Thanks again everyone who gave some positive input. Now I can make a fairly educated decision, whether or not to carry a knife for my....... wood carving hobby?

 

[stercus]

Both of the knives you've selected are locking blades.

 

[Jaymz]

Damn. I really should stop coming on here at 4am! I got cunfuzzled.

So a liner lock is a lock. What's the one called in the spyderco ukpk again? Push blade or something?

 

[stercus]

That's called a slip-joint, a spring holds the blade in place and the knife closes as soon as the spring tension is overcome. A liner-lock has a piece of metal that locks the blade in place and must be moved aside before the knife can be closed.

Wikipedia section on knife locks.

 

[Jaymz]

That's called a slip-joint, a spring holds the blade in place and the knife closes as soon as the spring tension is overcome. A liner-lock has a piece of metal that locks the blade in place and must be moved aside before the knife can be closed.

Wikipedia section on knife locks.

Yeah cheers. Just got them mixed up. I read all that on wiki as well. It will all sink in sooner or later!

 

[stercus]

Hope you find one that suits you! Some of these lock types can be hard to figure out without a good diagram or holding one in your hand.

 

[Jaymz]

Hope you find one that suits you! Some of these lock types can be hard to figure out without a good diagram or holding one in your hand.

Yeah I bet. I've seen a video on youtube of autoLAWKS. Seemed like a pointless over-complication to me.

Also seen button locks? I think that's what it was called.

I hope I find a titanium blade, but have only seen one in my searches and it was a blunt pointed, fixed blade. It was also over 3 inches. :grumpy:

 

[Coronite]

Jaymz, in the traditional Scottish dress, isn't a fixed blade a compulsory part of the attire? Of course walking around in a kilt everyday would be a little inpractical.

Another good alternative to the Spydie UKPK would be Fallkniven U1.

//Rickard//