Goncz Titanium Knife / Flashlights

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As a non frequent member of the BF here my mail fom the CPF where I hang out more:

Guys, you don't believe this:

I got all the stuff. I'm not sure how Mr Ted Bear did this but all is here. BUT guess what:
-first of all, NO letter with would you please excuse 'us' (as Mr G is often referring to himself) for all these 8 month . No mail or what so ever in the last months.
- the charger is still NOT WORKING, after a few hours it's still red and VERY hot. After disconnecting it, it does not turn to the green light anymore. Unbelievable that I got again a defective charger...or are they (still) all like this?

-reflector gives still no round circled light(or is it the bulb, although this problem remains with different bulbs?)
-got a M3 as a 'make it up', although no 'very special limited edition light' as first/last promised. I rather would got my money back but this was never an option despite all promises.
-the M3 is a nice light, but the G M3 (3 X 123)is really NO match for my (the REAL...) SF M3, 9P or even my SF M2. Quite yellow beam it is.
- the head/bezel is all right, no scratch or unanodized spot.

So nothing except the bezel has improved yet.

I still think it's a potentially good flashlight. If Mr. Goncz had listened to his customers and focused on the necessary improvements and customerservice it could have been a real good flashlight. Now is everybody (I am) disapointed, I think Mr G is (should)also.

I feel sorry that I ever buyed this light, it was an expensive lesson. Next time I would buy a SF or tigerlight, but that's my personal opinion.

I think after writing this, Mr. G will not even sell me a spare bulb (which I will never need since the flashlight is still like a rotten apple...) even though I'm not a member of the German communist party . Perhaps I will mod it to a 5 Watt LS (after removing the LOGO...) or use it as a hammer.

disclaimer: All I wrote down is my personal experience/opinion. The Goncz light could be the best light in the world. Mine just isn't (working), in my opinion of course. Of course of course . Decide for yourself.

However, BIG cheers to Jeff!!! Thanks!!!
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Note: I always had quite friendly converstions (mail) with Mr. Goncz. Nothing personal. But normally he don't answer my mails.

Fact is that my charger still not works.

Reactions from mr. Goncz are most welcome...


Whistler from the CPF

CPF Thread
 
WHISTLER,

I am not sure if you wrote the posting or somebody else imported as the name under is posted never heard of it. Anyway I wil respond to it.

The reflector that was a white spot on it could have been dameged in the transport as all products that goes out is tested and inspected and you as SF fun magination can take wide spectrum as what happend to the head????

As to crying babies let me provide you with a hankerchief...

The charger is working as it was tested. The charger module get hot while is charging. The charging Amprege is over 2 Amps. and that is lot of energy. You should leave it on until the light turns to green. There is an instruction manual with it and you should read it!!!

The M-3 light is with a low serial number and that what I promissed you.

The beam is not yellow as was here, the difference is that the bulb is a Halogen bulb with 3200 kelvin, that has all the light are red and not as white as the Xenon gas bulbs.

Just for the facts today We had tested the light M-3 bulbs at 9 volt and the reading is: 9 Volt, 53.56 CP. = 673.24 lumen at 3,199 Kelvin. that is fact, Certified. The initial output maybe higher as the Duracell bateries are measured 3.2 Volt.

And this will ruin your day: we also measured the M-2 lights Xenon bulbs: 6 Volt, 26.41 CP. = 331,97 lumen. (compare it to your favorite light)

As to compare it to your favorite light:

Watterproof 130 feet (tested by Ted Bear 180 feet 100 psi= 6atm.
Quick focusing.
Switch in tail cap.
The reflector surface is about 30% bigger, thereby cathing more light from the bulb.
The maintanance is also 1/3 as if the bulb burn out You just replace the bulb not the whole reflector.
Etc. Etc. and we can prof that the lightouput is far higher than you favorite SF lights. If you do not believe it we take beates.

From your tone is a windictive posting to harm us or trying. We do have backbone and can take it.

We compensated you very well with extra head $40.00, $65.00 the M-3 light and 3 Duracell batteries $15.00, $37.00 the first shipping costs tha adds up to $157.00 for the order that you placed that was $170.00 total. No body will give you that deal and one of the reason you got it for cameradary as you using some of the pacemakers , that I was part of the team who developed it.

You know what?, you do not appriciate the deal you got and not pleased with the products send it back and you will get your money back with 5% the bank rate intrest on top of it.

So, You have the choice we get the light, you get you money back and we will fergot you as we did the last year snow and the CPF.

The lights speak for themself. Not everybody likes the Germans, but they drive a Mercedes.

As to my comments: just the way it is. You like the product, If you do not do not buy it. SIMPLE...

Cordially

John

:mad: :) :)
 
Originally posted by Goncz
Just for the facts today We had tested the light M-3 bulbs at 9 volt and the reading is: 9 Volt, 53.56 CP. = 673.24 lumen at 3,199 Kelvin. that is fact, Certified. The initial output maybe higher as the Duracell bateries are measured 3.2 Volt.

And this will ruin your day: we also measured the M-2 lights Xenon bulbs: 6 Volt, 26.41 CP. = 331,97 lumen. (compare it to your favorite light)

Cordially

John

:mad: :) :) [/B]
Click to expand...

If those G "M2" and "M3" lights are anywhere near those lumen outputs of 670/330 I will gladly eat my hat and what-not. Paper and electronic "ink" is patient as we say in germany :D

If those claims can be backed up with independent testing I´ll be quite - so far when confronted with beamshots and real world comparisons of "G" lights output claims with lights being in that lumen range and by far outshining the G products or with lights having "paper specs" very much lower and still outshining his the G claim was it was all conspiracy against him and his products by people paid by competitors - as if they would really care.

The other interesting point is that the only favorable reviews seem to be done by people who didn´t had the pleasure yet to have "real lights" to their disposal - as soon as people with experience of such lights do such testing :rolleyes:

Lets see how long we´ll take this time until a new flame war gets rolling - I will stand at the sidelines and see how it plays out this time - this will be my last email in any G related thread :D

Oh and here G´s reasoning on why his paper specs and real life don´t match up as well when he was asked: Question: "So what is the deal with the lumen ratings on these lights? I know that beam pic's don't always show the real story but these lights don't even seem to be in the same ball park as there ratings" - Quote: "As to the Lumen, we are sticking to the statements and we expecting the bulb to perform as the factory assured Us. The matter of fact the M-10-COMET will have a optional 100 watt Xenon bulb that will realy leave the others 500 yards in dark! The items that we are not producing unfortunately we do not control the end result. However we stand behind the statements." ENDQUOTE

And here´s the beamshot pics - judge for yourself :cool:

Gonczed.jpg


Klaus
 
:confused:

Looks like the SF M6 on LOLA kills the Goncz M5...

It also appears that the Streamlight is brighter with more spill than the M5.

Hmmm.

Edited to add: Does the beam actually appear that yellow?
 
Hey,

Anybody questioning the outputs: Put the money on the table!!!

As to the posted shots: I was not there and no idea of the battery charge level condition etc. So is Doctored pictures... anybody can see. There is no evidence that the light is actualy the stated one, As well some lights are 9 Volt etc. with 4 inch reflector. In a concentrated beam you can have more lumen than in a larger beam, but that is above your understanding.

How can you make a statements that you never head the light in your hand? So get off my back!!!!! Und schnell !!!!
 
I've been restraining myself, but this time it's too much.

600+ lumens out of a 9V setup? compared to 105 (or at most, 200 in the HOLA?) from SF/SL? There must be something different in the measurement method. Maybe SF is like NAD... underrating their output by the most conservative method. Either way, the beamshots are good evidence.

Goncz, sir, do take the time to post your own beamshots. I'm curious to see them.

I cannot help myself from laughing.

Oh, dear.

-j
 
BART,

Just revisited your statement: If you did not received pictures on the disc, than you could not have done anything with the Webpage except the frames, which is not much. So what is the beef: You promisssed the complition, which you did not and still got the $65.00 light , 3 batteries $15.00 shiping about $10.00 so you got $90.00 and we got nothing...????
 
Mr. Goncz, I'm not sure I understand the disagreement about output correctly. It sounds like none of your output claims are based on measuring the output of the actual flashlight -- they're all based either on calculated output or on running the bulb with a different power source and measuring its output with that power source. Do I understand you correctly?
 
If the photos are accurate, the numbers are seriously skewed. if the photos are accurate, the Goncz lights are NOT worth the cost.

What's the real story here?
 
Dear Mr. Goncz,
Nice that you are still fine. Since you did not answer my mails I did not know for sure.
And, yes it's me.

As to crying babies let me provide you with a hankerchief...
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I found this not an appropriate reaction to an unsatisfied customer. Especially if he had waited for 8 month nad the problems are still not solved.

Fact is that my charger is not turning green. Tested or not. With two differnt battery packs. The same problem as before.

From your tone is a windictive posting to harm us or trying. We do have backbone and can take it.
Click to expand...
A rather strange reaction. Remember, I was the one who gave you the benefit of the doubt on the CPF. That's why I bought your light. The question is more like wether I can take it, remember I'm the customer. I'm the one stuck with a defective flashlight.

You know what?, you do not appriciate the deal you got and not pleased with the products send it back and you will get your money back with 5% the bank rate intrest on top of it.
Click to expand...
Since you refused to answer my mails and fax with this proposal these terms were never an option... . When I finally reached you on the phone you promised me to take care of all within 1 week of all but nothing happened for weeks. Until Mr ted Bear took care of it...

As to the output of the lights. It's my personal perception. Nothing more or less. I never said your lights are bad or something like this. On the contrary. They are just not the best lights in the world, in my opinion of course. And there are some serious problems with my light.
 
OOPS too long for one post, so here the rest:
I'm very sad and troubled that customerservice is like this.
As mentioned elsewhere, you made a new product. Problems may occur. Then you analyze them to improve your product and make it the best in the world. Together with your enthusiast buyer/user.

I think this is enough discussion about my problems with the Goncz lights. Enough is said already, possibly too much. Nobody can verfy my story nor Mr Goncz's . If this is not an appropriate post in the spirit of the BF or does have to be changed feel free to PM me (Moderator).
 
Cougar - they're all based either on calculated output or on running the bulb with a different power source and measuring its output with that power source.
Click to expand...

Goncz - I do not overstate or understate anything. The bulbs are certified by the manufacturer and that what is count.
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Goncz - There is no question that Our M-3 lights are far supperior to aything out on the market:
Click to expand...

I just though I put all those quotes together.

I think the bottom line is this.

Mr. Goncz will insist his lights are superior to all bar none. Anyone that does not agree with this, in Mr Goncz's opinion, is subject to credibility problems.
 
I don't see why it's the customers job to prove the manufactruers claims. if you have such confidence in your product, you should be willing to send it out to independent agency to test it.

As my tagline shows, I'm experimenting with a camouflage phenolic resin handle material. Before I sold any, I sent it out to two knifemakers at my cost to test it. I ended up hearing back on some problems, so rather than continuing to sell it, I stopped selling it, and went back to attempt to fix these problems. I think I have them fixed now, but until I can do more testing(later today, hopefully), and until I hear back from another maker that I sent some to Monday, I'm not selling the stuff again.

Mr Goncz, if you have such confidence in your product, you should be willing to send it out for independent testing. You will of course claim taht you did that with some users here and on CPF. The problem is, you refuse to accept their claims when they show something that you disagree with. My suggestion would be to get together iwth one of members here or at CPF who have your product and one of it's direct competitors(to be honest, I don't know enough about flashlights to know which lights would directly compete with one of yours), then send them the money, or the batteries and bulbs themselves, to do a side by side comparison of your product with it's competitor. This way you can have new batteries and bulbs in the product(it should be the recommended, manufacturer included bulb with both lights) and can do a good comparison side by side without having problems like drained batteries or bulbs that are already partially worn out. This would give an honest side by side comparison of your light and a competitors while minimizing problems such as drained batteries, but also, as it wouldn't be you test6ing it, but an indepedent party, this would make the results more credible.

I would offer to do the test for you, but as I already said, I don't know enough about theproducts, and it wouldn't be fair to you or anyone else. Spark, great guy, but again, as a possible futurevendor of yours, would be considered on the biased side(Again, not that I think you're biased Kevin, just trying to make this as fair as possible so no one can whine). This would be my suggestion. Take it as you may. i've tried to keep this whole message as positive and professional as possible, and hope that you'll take it as nothing more than the friendly advice I intended it to be.
 
Originally posted by Goncz
BART,

Just revisited your statement: If you did not received pictures on the disc, than you could not have done anything with the Webpage except the frames, which is not much. So what is the beef: You promisssed the complition, which you did not and still got the $65.00 light , 3 batteries $15.00 shiping about $10.00 so you got $90.00 and we got nothing...????
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John, shipping was $7.55 and batteries were not included, but that is not important.
What is important is your promise...:rolleyes:

The fact is I could not finish the site because you failed to provide proper material .

Sice you didn't e-mail me as you said, I will reply in public as well.
Just to jog your memory, here is the reply you gave to my email:
Dear Bart,
Thanks for reminding me. I did not forget the promise
and I will keep it. As You know we had some problem with
the chargers and to correct that we are now getting made new chargers
and as soon as we have them we will send you one.
You bin kind to us on the CPF and we appreciate it.
In the meantime we had the wbpage made here locally not that they
are better but because the picture etc. made it easier.
You can still build a page and run it in Europe and you can be our
Internet seller in Europe and make 40% profit on it. Also you could
put it (optimized) ON THE SEARCH ENGINES.
Thanks again and looking forward hearing from you.
With Regards,


> [Original Message]
> From: Bart <blackbart@mad.scientist.com>
> To: John Goncz <goncz1@earthlink.net>
> Date: 01/27/2003 1:24:43 AM
> Subject: Flashlights...
>
> Hi John,
>
> I wish you all the luck in the world, but I have to say I am a little
dissapointed in you...
>
> I offered to help you with a site, wich you accepted, but was not
provided proper material to work with. I tried my best, and you liked it,
and promised me a light. Next thing I see is another site... ?
>
> Please do not think I did it to get a free light, but, I thought a man to
man promise was worth something, I remember you stating the same thing on
CPF...
>
> As stated before, I wish you luck, but please don't make promisses you
will not keep.
>
> Regards,
> Bart
> --
Click to expand...
I think this is pretty straightforward...
you did promise me a rechargeable light for my work, yet shipped me a M3 instead.

What happened to your bold statements about "a man is as good as his word?" :confused:
 
I still don't understand all this mumbo-jumbo. The bottom line: Is the Goncz the best flashlight to shine into a car interior at 0200 in the morning or should a Surefire continue to be the number one choice for this type of work?

If the photos above are legit, the Goncz does not appear to be the best light for night-time duty.

What's the truth???
 
JUST A QUYICK RESPOND,

I do not see some gays is posting some picture that we were not present and posted by someone who never had the light in his hand.

If we are present, when the pictures are taken under controlled sintuation is fine as to the output the measured points are stated and we have the test in writing.

We are not prooving any thing just stating the facts and not reinventing Phisics.

... I have to run but shortly will follow it...

Thanks,
John
 
Real flashlight manufacturers send out several samples for testing by an independent lab. They rely on real lumen measurements rather than calculated numbers.
 
Let's stop the attack threads until he can read and respond to mine.

ANd wow did that sound conceited as hell. :) But I do feel(And hope he does too) that I kindly and without any insults put forward some ideas that might solve this for everyone.
 
I'm currently evaluating the Goncz M-3, but I'm comparing it to a Streamlight Stinger. Apples to oranges here.

I'm waiting on a M-2 from John, so I can fairly evaluate it against a Surefire 6-P, a Pelican M-6, and a Streamlight Twin Task 2-L.

While my evaluation may not be scientific, I'm trying to evaluate it by using it as my EDC. I'll be able to do that better once I have the M-2.

The M-3 is a very well constructed light, with some great engineering incorporated into it. As I have stated before, the beam is yellow, due to the bulb being Halogen versus Zenon, but it is still very bright. I'm anxious to obtain a Zenon bulb for the M-3, as well as the M-2 John is sending me, so I can judge the lights as close to being identical as possible.

In the meantime, lets try to stay on topic, and discuss this like rational human beings. John realizes he has some things to iron out, and if we are patient, he'll accomplish this.

Stay tuned.
 
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