Harness Jacks- any collectors?

[waverave]

NYK compared to Electric!!
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Charlie, do the grooves in the top of that punch blade have function or was that decorative?

 

[waynorth]

I suspect the idea was to help move the punch into the leather to enlarge the cut. The patent punch before the spiral had a smooth back, otherwise identical, and having tried both several times, I honestly couldn't tell the difference!! The grooves look cool though!!

 

[Lostball]

What wonderful examples Charlie!!!!!!!!!

 

[paulhilborn]

NYK!!

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NYK compared to Electric!!
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NYK Locking punch:
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My GOODNESS Charlie, those are absolutely STUNNING and unfortunately, I do not have a NYK punch

 

[cigarrodog]

No, not me, but the ones you have sure are sweet.

 

[herder]

Really neat to see those beautiful modern harness jack models from vaporstang, cigarrodog, Paul H., and black mamba, wonderful knives.

waynorth, That first etched New York Hammer Brand makes my eyes pop out of their sockets, incredible example!!!
The other ones are only really great.

 

[waynorth]

One of my favorites, made more special as it is a gift from my friend Duncan

My favorite Punch!!!

Man, I had fun designing that knife!!! Great example Paul!!
Bill cursed me for a while, for talking him into doing the "candle-end" (pointy tip), but I think it has enhanced all the subsequent #85 pattern knives. I think he is beginning to agree!!

 

[waynorth]

Really neat to see those beautiful modern harness jack models from vaporstang, cigarrodog, Paul H., and black mamba, wonderful knives.

waynorth, That first etched New York Hammer Brand makes my eyes pop out of their sockets, incredible example!!!
The other ones are only really great.

Glad you like that NYK, herder!! And the others!!

 

[Campbellclanman]

Charlie- I hope you dont mind me coming in...I have to agree with the work on that 85- and that Naponock style Punch - well I am only just beginning myself as to what a genius idea it was to use that - just a phenomenal knife in Paul's Hand there!

E-mail coming your way tonight....

I have finished updating photo's of my harness Jacks ( well the older ones ) as I am trying ( I do stress the trying part ) to piece together a study on the Punches for myself, I am going to end up cataloging the photos with printout information etc.
I have yet to photograph my later model HJ's, also yet to photograph my Scouts and their Punches - I think all this mission I am starting on will take a while.
I hope you dont mind me sharing some of these on the topic you guys are on, as I took these the other day, not adding any information - merely adding some pics

New York's Punch...

Here is the New York knife Co Punch - different views....

Note the Laminated Tangs that you see here folks....

Again a nice understanding view of what and how New Yorks styled their Laminated Tanged Punches...

Oh this lovely Ebony Beast - Charlie- recognise this Lovely Lady? Another example of the New York Punch at it's best...

Another example of what Charlie was talking about with the Spiral Styled Punch of New Yorks...
This Punch ( forgive me Charlie ) is a Scout - and a darned nice one at that if I may say that...

Speaking of the Naponock Punch - I was blessed- and I pretty much do mean blessed with some amazing HJ's some time ago- I haven't forgotten this - I am sure that these were picked to make me look and learn and study about these knives, I cant describe in words how forever grateful I am for this - its taken its time - but I am only starting to learn and look forward to learning more - I will show you in my next post what I mean by this...
This is a very old Winchester Harness Jack- punch look familiar ? now just imagine the hard brain blowing work Charlie and Bill have had to do to basically "reinvent" the wheel to make these available to you and I now...pretty cool ...
Check out this gorgeous old Knife - I was speaking to Charlie on the phone a while back about this particular Knife, Winchester Bought Naponock - and in the early days of Western ownership of Naponock ( I'm guessing here ) perhaps old Factory stock of remaining Punches were used- or the use of the tools continued for a short period - then...... for some reason the Punches existence stopped - perhaps too expensive? perhaps the cease of a Winchester Harness Jack altogether after a period may have also factored into it? now if I have any of this wrong- that's ok and I ask that Charlie or others most certainly come in as I stand to be corrected .

A closer view.... lovely tang Stamp - look past the corrosion and just look at the style of this old Punch, note the wee Choil

 

[Campbellclanman]

So when looking at different HJ's that come my way- they may have Tang stamps of names I have never heard of- usually a quick glance in Goins / Bernard Levine 4 etc can give you and idea if they were a Manufacturer or Merchant / Importer etc whom HAD Knives made for them by ...such ' such.

So when I was looking through my older HJ's - I wanted to show you an example of how things "leap out" at you - this happened the other day.... now please Charlie if there is something I haven't got right- PLEASE feel free to come in and set me straight my friend...
So ..... looking at the Punches, often manufacturers will have their own Patented Punch - and to make it even harder they may have someone else's- so that creates another twist- did That company contract this knife - or did they commission the Punches TO that manufacturer etc- Charlie has come in and educated me so many times when I go down a wrong road ....

So when I got this gorgeous HJ - I wondered- who made this Knife- was it this- was it them? etc...
The Punch Duncan - look at the Punch!

Wow- just look at that for a Shield!! Gorgeous Bone -
The other day when taking Photos I pulled this out and thought- Oh that's a Robeson Punch, then I thought - hold on!!!! I have never known this knife to be a Robeson???? Have I?....

Fantastic Tang Stamp "Peerless Cut Co." now get this- Goins has this Tang stamp for the years 1920 - 1921!! awesome!

Now here's a good look at the Punch and the Tang Stamp...

so hold on to this....

Jake (supratentorial ) where are you lately Jake my friend?.... he gifted me this HJ that again sported a very rarely seen tang Stamp.....M .Thompson, Minneapolis.....

A good look at the Tang Stamp...

Now...look back up at the Peerless Punch - now look at this Thompson's Punch...

Now, when you gather a few Robeson HJ's together- and put them with the Peerless and the Thompson, you get this.....
slight variances in width- easily taken care of to fit the frame - but it's the same patented Punch - by Robeson..

So if I am unsure and want to double check - I call in the Bigger Boys from Robeson...

a closer look at the Big Robeson HJ Punches confirms that you could say that Robeson manufactured ALL of these Knives, incl the Peerless and the Thompson.......

Don't be confused with the slight variances of width of the channel cut in the Punch or the width of the punch itself to fit a narrower frame- they are the same.

To double check I also compare the rear of the Punches- as these all vary as well between different Patented patterns- the shoulders of the Tangs can differ in many different variables - these all have the same shoulder construction at the rear, check out the "shoulder construction" on this photo of the rear of the Punch es of the two Robinson Big HJ's and then another brand ( two older Clauss's - Oh which reminds me I bought a dead MINT Clauss HJ off Mike Berkovitch - and it got lost or stolen in the mail process ) so I have these two see their "shoulders " below so you can see the difference to confirm what I mean...
Robeson HJ's

Clauss HJ's

but then there is a smaller possibility that the Punches were bought from Robeson to be built in another Cutlers premises- but I think the earlier - for now anyway until I can pick up proof otherwise or Charlie, Herder, Mike Robuck etc can come in and help this ol brain soak in the proper information- but so far - if this was a court room, its pretty damning evidence

So you can sort of see what I am trying to do- is build a photo reference- have as much information with that photo- which can be updated anytime as new information comes in.

 

[black mamba]

The punch on this 1930s era USA Boker is about as simple as they get, but still works fine. It is interesting to me to what lengths the different manufacturers went to come up with something different. Were they really looking for something better, or was it just marketing?

 

[cigarrodog]

So when looking at different HJ's that come my way- they may have Tang stamps of names I have never heard of- usually a quick glance in Goins / Bernard Levine 4 etc can give you and idea if they were a Manufacturer or Merchant / Importer etc whom HAD Knives made for them by ...such ' such.

So when I was looking through my older HJ's - I wanted to show you an example of how things "leap out" at you - this happened the other day.... now please Charlie if there is something I haven't got right- PLEASE feel free to come in and set me straight my friend...
So ..... looking at the Punches, often manufacturers will have their own Patented Punch - and to make it even harder they may have someone else's- so that creates another twist- did That company contract this knife - or did they commission the Punches TO that manufacturer etc- Charlie has come in and educated me so many times when I go down a wrong road ....

So when I got this gorgeous HJ - I wondered- who made this Knife- was it this- was it them? etc...
The Punch Duncan - look at the Punch!

Wow- just look at that for a Shield!! Gorgeous Bone -
The other day when taking Photos I pulled this out and thought- Oh that's a Robeson Punch, then I thought - hold on!!!! I have never known this knife to be a Robeson???? Have I?....

Fantastic Tang Stamp "Peerless Cut Co." now get this- Goins has this Tang stamp for the years 1920 - 1921!! awesome!

Now here's a good look at the Punch and the Tang Stamp...

so hold on to this....

Jake (supratentorial ) where are you lately Jake my friend?.... he gifted me this HJ that again sported a very rarely seen tang Stamp.....M .Thompson, Minneapolis.....

A good look at the Tang Stamp...

Now...look back up at the Peerless Punch - now look at this Thompson's Punch...

Now, when you gather a few Robeson HJ's together- and put them with the Peerless and the Thompson, you get this.....
slight variances in width- easily taken care of to fit the frame - but it's the same patented Punch - by Robeson..

So if I am unsure and want to double check - I call in the Bigger Boys from Robeson...

a closer look at the Big Robeson HJ Punches confirms that you could say that Robeson manufactured ALL of these Knives, incl the Peerless and the Thompson.......

Don't be confused with the slight variances of width of the channel cut in the Punch or the width of the punch itself to fit a narrower frame- they are the same.

To double check I also compare the rear of the Punches- as these all vary as well between different Patented patterns- the shoulders of the Tangs can differ in many different variables - these all have the same shoulder construction at the rear, check out the "shoulder construction" on this photo of the rear of the Punch es of the two Robinson Big HJ's and then another brand ( two older Clauss's - Oh which reminds me I bought a dead MINT Clauss HJ off Mike Berkovitch - and it got lost or stolen in the mail process ) so I have these two see their "shoulders " below so you can see the difference to confirm what I mean...
Robeson HJ's

Clauss HJ's

but then there is a smaller possibility that the Punches were bought from Robeson to be built in another Cutlers premises- but I think the earlier - for now anyway until I can pick up proof otherwise or Charlie, Herder, Mike Robuck etc can come in and help this ol brain soak in the proper information- but so far - if this was a court room, its pretty damning evidence

So you can sort of see what I am trying to do- is build a photo reference- have as much information with that photo- which can be updated anytime as new information comes in.

Thank you for sharing your great collection and the superb historical perspective.

 

[Campbellclanman]

Sorry folks - corrected my usual mistake- the HJ Is Winchester ( as the Tang Stamp says lol )NOT Western.

Thanks for the comments Cigarrodog - with these older HJ Knives I’m only just keeping my head above water - but making a lot of splashing noises

It’s fun watching your Molasses & Butter collection grow Jeff. I’m not too sure the differences? Maybe cheaper having a variance and patent that Punch rather than to buy from others?

Charlie Sir?

 

[waverave]

Campbellclanman those are some exceptional HJ's!!! Love the spiral punch it really adds to the flair of those old knives.

 

[Campbellclanman]

Thanks Darren, if you see Charlies HJ's on the last page ( page 10 ) THOSE are exceptional!

Charlie I remember you showing us that Locking Punch before- that must be rarer than Hens Teeth!

 

[waverave]

Thanks Darren, if you see Charlies HJ's on the last page ( page 10 ) THOSE are exceptional!

No question I am pretty much in awe of everything Charlie posts at this point.

 

[Campbellclanman]

Lots of homework coming up on this HJ- until then I am just enjoying this Primble immensely !

 

[ea42]

Duncan and Charlie, what incredible collections! Here's an oddball; a NYK Co knife with what appears to be a Robeson punch. It looks legit, everything fits like a dream, no wobble, no visible pin, spring matches the punch perfectly, but then I do wonder why they'd use such a punch unless perhaps it was some kind of experiment that didn't catch on. What say you?







Eric

 

[waynorth]

Eric, that is a beauty, and evokes the fun we have around here trying to figure out which end is up!!! I've seen Robeson punches in unexpected places. I will have to dig some out!!

 

[Rusty1]

Wonder if the Robeson punch was tried out as it sat flush in the frame, where the original or early NYK punches sad proud of the frame, were they problematic or prone to catching in the trouser/pant leg pocket. Just surmising.

Some fantastic looking Harnes Jacks within these pages, but Charlie those NYK’s are beautiful considering their age.

Eric, stunning find on your Jack, super photo of a rare one right there.

Russell