Hello Old Friend, 710 content..

I cleaned and skinned three whitetails with a 710DLC-1 this morning. Great design, awesome steel.

The blade shape is really nice for cleaning, IMO - sturdy, but still has a great point and is slim enough to get into where it needs to. Got a really nice amount of belly on it, too. Just awesome.
 
Just want to share, here's a 710 I just put stand off's on myself, USAKM has the exact size you need (tho they're often out of that size).

C78AAD9C-363B-4BAF-B95A-A95AC20A64C3-865-000000B06CBAD6CA_zps7b79dab7.jpg
 
kniferbro said:
the HS suffix is actually High Sulfur not High Speed.
Click to expand...

No it's not. Where did you come up with this statement?

There may be sulfur in the chemical composition true, but it's called High Speed for a good reason. And why it became so expensive to produce knife blades from, and why Benchmade stopped using it. The material makes for an awesome cutting tool but is difficult to sharpen due to it's hardness.

From the internet after 2 minutes of searching:

"Tool steels such as high speed steel are alloys containing many elements other than iron, each of which influences its chemical properties. These elements are carbon (0.65 to 0.80 percent), chromium (3.75 to 4.00 percent), tungsten (17.25 to 18.75 percent), vanadium (0.90 to 1.30 percent), and in very small proportions cobalt, molybdenum and aluminum. Other elements that may be present in small quantities are manganese (0.10 to 0.40 percent), silicon (0.20 to 0.40 percent), nickel (about 0.30 percent), copper (0.25percent), phosphorus (about 0.30percent) and sulfur (about 0.30percent).

Broadly, high speed steels are classified into two categories according to its chemical composition: T type (tungsten based) and M type (molybdenum based.)"

M2 is what Benchmade chose.
 
Joe,

I'd only add that M2 HSS doesn't appear to contain any sulfur at all.

I checked the BM steel chart and several other sources and the M2 version of High Speed steel appears to omit any sulfur content.

ETA: I should have added CPM-M4 as not containing any sulfur either.
 
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rexromic said:
Very nice looking trio.
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Thanks rexromic!


jkarp_53 said:
No it's not. Where did you come up with this statement?

There may be sulfur in the chemical composition true, but it's called High Speed for a good reason. And why it became so expensive to produce knife blades from, and why Benchmade stopped using it. The material makes for an awesome cutting tool but is difficult to sharpen due to it's hardness.

From the internet after 2 minutes of searching:

"Tool steels such as high speed steel are alloys containing many elements other than iron, each of which influences its chemical properties. These elements are carbon (0.65 to 0.80 percent), chromium (3.75 to 4.00 percent), tungsten (17.25 to 18.75 percent), vanadium (0.90 to 1.30 percent), and in very small proportions cobalt, molybdenum and aluminum. Other elements that may be present in small quantities are manganese (0.10 to 0.40 percent), silicon (0.20 to 0.40 percent), nickel (about 0.30 percent), copper (0.25percent), phosphorus (about 0.30percent) and sulfur (about 0.30percent).

Broadly, high speed steels are classified into two categories according to its chemical composition: T type (tungsten based) and M type (molybdenum based.)"

M2 is what Benchmade chose.
Click to expand...

I am so glad you are still around Joe!
I was waiting for you to chime in on why M2 is so sought after.
You are an endless fountain of information; who is always spot on.
You have my utmost respect.
Correct me if I am wrong please.
But, I believe one of the reasons BM stopped producing knives with M2 steel; is because it was so rough on their machinery, right?
Now that is hard stuff.
That's why it's my grail steel!
I love my M2!
 
Keyman said:
Thanks rexromic!

I am so glad you are still around Joe!
I was waiting for you to chime in on why M2 is so sought after.
You are an endless fountain of information; who is always spot on.
You have my utmost respect.
Correct me if I am wrong please.
But, I believe one of the reasons BM stopped producing knives with M2 steel; is because it was so rough on their machinery, right?
Now that is hard stuff.
That's why it's my grail steel!
I love my M2!
Click to expand...

Thanks KM...and I haven't even had breakfast yet. :cool:

Yes, belts and tooling equipment didn't last long due to the hardness of the steel. While my 710HS is a safe queen my 835HS Ascent is a user, came that way, and is a joy to cut with. This steel is also my Grail. :thumbup:
 
pbcg said:
Joe,

I'd only add that M2 HSS doesn't appear to contain any sulfur at all.

I checked the BM steel chart and several other sources and the M2 version of High Speed steel appears to omit any sulfur content.

ETA: I should have added CPM-M4 as not containing any sulfur either.
Click to expand...

Thanks P., I wouldn't be surprised regarding whether sulphur was used or not. I simply picked a quote from a materials chart, obviously someone's opinion if what you read is more to the point.

...Joe
 
The M2 steel version AFCK is very high on my list of must have BM knives.

Joe, if you ever tire of yours be sure to let me know!;):D
 
jkarp_53 said:
No it's not. Where did you come up with this statement?

There may be sulfur in the chemical composition true, but it's called High Speed for a good reason. And why it became so expensive to produce knife blades from, and why Benchmade stopped using it. The material makes for an awesome cutting tool but is difficult to sharpen due to it's hardness.

From the internet after 2 minutes of searching:

"Tool steels such as high speed steel are alloys containing many elements other than iron, each of which influences its chemical properties. These elements are carbon (0.65 to 0.80 percent), chromium (3.75 to 4.00 percent), tungsten (17.25 to 18.75 percent), vanadium (0.90 to 1.30 percent), and in very small proportions cobalt, molybdenum and aluminum. Other elements that may be present in small quantities are manganese (0.10 to 0.40 percent), silicon (0.20 to 0.40 percent), nickel (about 0.30 percent), copper (0.25percent), phosphorus (about 0.30percent) and sulfur (about 0.30percent).

Broadly, high speed steels are classified into two categories according to its chemical composition: T type (tungsten based) and M type (molybdenum based.)"

M2 is what Benchmade chose.
Click to expand...

Yes M2 is a high speed steel, but high speed steels are not denoted by 'HS'. You can have a high speed steel with out the added sulfur.

The high sulfur (HS) modification is standard for larger diameter
bars, providing enhanced machinability and grindability.
Click to expand...

The added sulfur is common in high speed steels because of the fact that they are extremely wear resistant, so by the HS modification, grindabilility and end-user ease of sharpening is increased.

Like I said above not all high speed steels have the added sulfur (note CPM REX 121)

HS standing for 'high speed' is a misnomer, coincidentally the acronym appears to denote 'High Speed' but high speed steels are high speed regardless of the suffix. Its simply misinformation that's regurgitated

Of course you could be right and Crucible Industries is wrong :rolleyes:

http://www.crucible.com/PDFs/\DataSheets2010\dsM4v1 2010.pdf
http://www.crucible.com/Products.aspx?c=DoList (again note CPM REX 121, no added sulfur)
 
Keyman, or JKarp: Being a 710 lover, but admittedly for only a year though, how long ago did the M2 go out of production? How impossible are they to find now? thanks for any insights guys, I appreciate it. Josh
 
kniferbro said:
HS standing for 'high speed' is a misnomer, coincidentally the acronym appears to denote 'High Speed' but high speed steels are high speed regardless of the suffix. Its simply misinformation that's regurgitated

Of course you could be right and Crucible Industries is wrong :rolleyes:

http://www.crucible.com/PDFs/\DataSheets2010\dsM4v1 2010.pdf
http://www.crucible.com/Products.aspx?c=DoList (again note CPM REX 121, no added sulfur)
Click to expand...

OK - I'm a simple guy. In the late 90's I on a job fixing a guy's computer. On his desk was a Benchmade 710HS knife, and the beauty and, after asking, sharpness of the edge impressed me anough to go get one for myself. Laser marked on the blade and on the one I own, and on everyone else that has a 710 is either HS or HSS as marked on the older variants.

I won't debate whether Crucible is wrong; I'm saying that everyone I know that has owned a knife in M2 is comfortable calling it a High Speed Steel blade, and this is based on materials charts everywhere that I look. Again, this is from our friends over at Wikipedia:

"High-speed steel (HSS or HS) is a subset of tool steels, commonly used in tool bits and cutting tools.

It is often used in power-saw blades and drill bits. It is superior to the older high-carbon steel tools used extensively through the 1940s in that it can withstand higher temperatures without losing its temper (hardness). This property allows HSS to cut faster than high carbon steel, hence the name high-speed steel. At room temperature, in their generally recommended heat treatment, HSS grades generally display high hardness (above HRC60) and abrasion resistance (generally linked to tungsten and vanadium content often used in HSS) compared with common carbon and tool steels."

Now that's enough on this, with respect to the OP, thanks.
 
jkarp_53 said:
OK - I'm a simple guy. In the late 90's I on a job fixing a guy's computer. On his desk was a Benchmade 710HS knife, and the beauty and, after asking, sharpness of the edge impressed me anough to go get one for myself. Laser marked on the blade and on the one I own, and on everyone else that has a 710 is either HS or HSS as marked on the older variants.

I won't debate whether Crucible is wrong; I'm saying that everyone I know that has owned a knife in M2 is comfortable calling it a High Speed Steel blade, and this is based on materials charts everywhere that I look. Again, this is from our friends over at Wikipedia:

"High-speed steel (HSS or HS) is a subset of tool steels, commonly used in tool bits and cutting tools.

It is often used in power-saw blades and drill bits. It is superior to the older high-carbon steel tools used extensively through the 1940s in that it can withstand higher temperatures without losing its temper (hardness). This property allows HSS to cut faster than high carbon steel, hence the name high-speed steel. At room temperature, in their generally recommended heat treatment, HSS grades generally display high hardness (above HRC60) and abrasion resistance (generally linked to tungsten and vanadium content often used in HSS) compared with common carbon and tool steels."

Now that's enough on this, with respect to the OP, thanks.
Click to expand...

I was never saying that M2 isn't a High Speed steel, sorry if it came off that way. Just trying to clear up the confusion on HS being High Sulfur, a common modification done to HSS (High Speed Steels).
 
Thanks for all the info knifebro.
Still more stuff I never knew, but very interesting none the less!

L2bravo said:
Keyman, or JKarp: Being a 710 lover, but admittedly for only a year though, how long ago did the M2 go out of production? How impossible are they to find now? thanks for any insights guys, I appreciate it. Josh
Click to expand...
The last knives produced in M2 steel by BM were the Limited Edition M2 Ritters (the mini and the full size) 200+ of each in '06 I believe.
If I'm wrong someone will surely let us know. ;)
The M2 710's must have come out either that same year or earlier.
They can be a bear to find.
But, some folks have them just sitting in thier safes un-used. (thank God)
Be ready to pay a pretty penny though.
To me, M2 is worth the high price tag.
I mean really.....
A knife with a blade made from a material that is so hard the manufacturers stopped using it?
Please!?
I'll take it and use it! :cool:
 
Keyman
The last knives produced in M2 steel by BM were the Limited Edition M2 Ritters (the mini and the full size) 200+ of each in '06 I believe.
If I'm wrong someone will surely let us know.
The M2 710's must have come out either that same year or earlier.
They can be a bear to find
Click to expand...

There's one for sale on eBay, guy claims he's carried his for 12 years, not a bad price either if this M2 is as great as you claim;)
 
rajincagin said:
There's one for sale on eBay, guy claims he's carried his for 12 years, not a bad price either if this M2 is as great as you claim;)
Click to expand...

I just ended up paying about the same price for a full size Ritter in M2. (Grail replacement)
I lost my original full size Ritter I bought in '06 this last summer. :(
I have a mini, a full size & a 710 all in M2.
To me, it's worth it.
Just remember...you've got to be able to sharpen it too.
I use the Lansky system with diamond stones.
 
The 12 year old mentioned on the 'Bay is a good looking user, lots of life left. Best part of buying an EDC version in M2 is no worries about using it!
 
kniferbro said:
Yes M2 is a high speed steel, but high speed steels are not denoted by 'HS'.
Click to expand...

You're making this too hard. ;) The HS in 710HS is a Benchmade catalog designation. I don't think Benchmade ever took an official position on what the HS stood for - maybe Holy Smoke. ;) The CE version was the 710HSSR. As you noted in another post, HSS is a common abbreviation for high speed steel.
 
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