Horace Kephart Tribute..."Beckerized"...

I would be in for several of them. very nice and the closest to the original that I have seen especially the five inch blade.
 
I believe the Kepharts made by the Colclesser Brothers for the public were 4", and 5" blades, but I believe Horace Kephart's personal model was a 4.5" blade.
 
The Warrior said:
I believe the Kepharts made by the Colclesser Brothers for the public were 4", and 5" blades, but I believe Horace Kephart's personal model was a 4.5" blade.
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Or was the blade 4.25" long? Can't remember anymore.
 
OK, I realize we're all speaking hypothetically here, so please don't assume that I'm asking this expecting that anyone has a real answer. This is purely academic.

Warrior's excellent renderings, and for that matter, all of our conversation, really are just about taking Kephart's knife, and copying the exact measurements, grinds etc... but using Kabar's manufacturing process to make it, coating the blade black, and likely using black grivory (or whatever) scales.

I mean, it's not a knife designed by EB. It doesn't use any of EB's handle designs, and really doesn't have anything for which EB could take credit. So i suppose the question about this hypothetical pre-production knife is two-part. 1) Is that really "Beckerized?" since EB really wouldn't have contributed anything to its design (except perhaps letting someone at Kabar take measurements of the Kephart knife he owns) and B) Could it get a BK# like every other Becker knife in the lineup? I mean, all the others are EB designs, so bearing a code of BK2, BK4, BK9..etc is fair game. Could this knife actually carry a BK code?
 
trailbum said:
I really think this knife would be a hit.
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Me too.

19-3ben said:
OK, I realize we're all speaking hypothetically here, so please don't assume that I'm asking this expecting that anyone has a real answer. This is purely academic.

Warrior's excellent renderings, and for that matter, all of our conversation, really are just about taking Kephart's knife, and copying the exact measurements, grinds etc... but using Kabar's manufacturing process to make it, coating the blade black, and likely using black grivory (or whatever) scales.

I mean, it's not a knife designed by EB. It doesn't use any of EB's handle designs, and really doesn't have anything for which EB could take credit. So i suppose the question about this hypothetical pre-production knife is two-part. 1) Is that really "Beckerized?" since EB really wouldn't have contributed anything to its design (except perhaps letting someone at Kabar take measurements of the Kephart knife he owns) and B) Could it get a BK# like every other Becker knife in the lineup? I mean, all the others are EB designs, so bearing a code of BK2, BK4, BK9..etc is fair game. Could this knife actually carry a BK code?
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Perhaps E would put his own spin on it. "Beckerized", was making it look like a Becker blade. Grivory handles, coating, logo, etc. Even if there wasn't anything E could take credit for, it would be an awesome tribute knife, honoring Mr. Kephart, and giving everyone a chance to use a blade that he designed. I think it would be awesome. A well known knife designer, giving tribute to a man that gave us so much. Win win, in my book. Especially if you got permission from the Kephart family, put Mr. Kephart's signature on it, etc. I love the idea personally.
 
The Warrior said:
Me too.

Perhaps E would put his own spin on it. "Beckerized", was making it look like a Becker blade. Grivory handles, coating, logo, etc. Even if there wasn't anything E could take credit for, it would be an awesome tribute knife, honoring Mr. Kephart, and giving everyone a chance to use a blade that he designed. I think it would be awesome. A well known knife designer, giving tribute to a man that gave us so much. Win win, in my book. Especially if you got permission from the Kephart family, put Mr. Kephart's signature on it, etc. I love the idea personally.
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This. A tribute.
 
19-3ben said:
OK, I realize we're all speaking hypothetically here, so please don't assume that I'm asking this expecting that anyone has a real answer. This is purely academic.

Warrior's excellent renderings, and for that matter, all of our conversation, really are just about taking Kephart's knife, and copying the exact measurements, grinds etc... but using Kabar's manufacturing process to make it, coating the blade black, and likely using black grivory (or whatever) scales.

I mean, it's not a knife designed by EB. It doesn't use any of EB's handle designs, and really doesn't have anything for which EB could take credit. So i suppose the question about this hypothetical pre-production knife is two-part. 1) Is that really "Beckerized?" since EB really wouldn't have contributed anything to its design (except perhaps letting someone at Kabar take measurements of the Kephart knife he owns) and B) Could it get a BK# like every other Becker knife in the lineup? I mean, all the others are EB designs, so bearing a code of BK2, BK4, BK9..etc is fair game. Could this knife actually carry a BK code?
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Not all of the other Becker's are Ethan's designs, I suspect, If done right Big Daddy Becker would be tickled pink to have a very true to design Kephart in his lineup.
and, I would be good with it.
 
FAL'ER said:
Not all of the other Becker's are Ethan's designs, I suspect, If done right Big Daddy Becker would be tickled pink to have a very true to design Kephart in his lineup.
and, I would be good with it.
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I know I'd be a happy camper if it came to fruition.
 
with all respects to Ethan, and i GUESS he'd agree...

if you put a tweener handle on a a spear point like the Kephart... it wouldn't be THE Kephart.

if somehow KaBar (or someone) could do the blade geometry justice even... no. wrong handle. the handle is a lot of it imho. forget the dual convexing and spine relief, and distal tapering.

coating? COATING? oh, goodness. no no no. no no. no. and no.

that's just me...

the mistake that every single current "brand" has made, in coming up with a Kephart... well, mistakes:

one: basing is on drawing or the museum Kephart - no real data, no real handling, and a worn out knife

two: no clear understanding... if it's not 100% Kephart, it's not a Kephart. that's even without the blessing of the Kephart foundation/family/museum/etc...

three: see above, any interpretation or variant, is not a Kephart. you can't put tweener handles on that blade and call it a Kephart, unless the Family says "that's cool" and even then, imho...

four: the steel. seriously. cruicible steels for the copies i've seen? at least no coatings, but newp. not a Kephart.

it's either the thing, or it's a cool authorized collaboration.

afaik, NOBODY, is any of those... nobody. how can they be? they have NO data. also, no authorizations.

hey, fun fact: the number of people allowed to touch and measure the museum Kephart is approximately: NONE

Since Ethan has a "like new" basically not worn out, never sharpened, pristine item: his knife is THE authority on what that knife should be, and he knows the family now. anyone with a copy on the market? probably never saw an original, certainly didn't see this one, and is based on articles, drawings, and speculation...

as much as i respect the intent of many enthusiasts, provenance on a thing like this is everything, only Ehtan has it for this case. i have a snarky pro-comment i'll reserve over sips of rye, privately :D

all, or none.

keep your eyes peeled. i know too much. yet. not enough :D
 
The Warrior said:
I know I'd be a happy camper if it came to fruition.
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the only sad part, is that your designs are probably too good, and KaBar/Ethan/etc would have to basically go out of their way to produce designs that didn't "infringe" on your designs, as it were. or in other words, you'd have to completely sign off that your designs are not their designs, etc...

like movie scripts, and lots of intellectual design, the fan stuff has to be dismissed at cost of the production stuff, even where it's obvious in intent and design that the makers had a clear pathway, many a fan might think otherwise

in my view: there are N (let's say 37) basic knife designs, and Ethan has use a few of those, and a few i'd like to see him make, but that are not unique to anyone...

from a mathemagical point of point: establish a handle for human use (and materials and ...): beyond that, there is an edged tool. assume practical and not fantasy (ie: one point). assume working edge on one side, assume usable lengths based on task, opposite to that of the thumb pad. shapes: determine work and usage: cutting, skinning, wood craft carving, slicing, etc. establish point relation: up, centered, down; choose tip shape based on several profiles; establish edge profiles; ...

even then, not easy... but the math is clear.
 
Bladite said:
with all respects to Ethan, and i GUESS he'd agree...

if you put a tweener handle on a a spear point like the Kephart... it wouldn't be THE Kephart.

if somehow KaBar (or someone) could do the blade geometry justice even... no. wrong handle. the handle is a lot of it imho. forget the dual convexing and spine relief, and distal tapering.

coating? COATING? oh, goodness. no no no. no no. no. and no.

that's just me...

the mistake that every single current "brand" has made, in coming up with a Kephart... well, mistakes:

one: basing is on drawing or the museum Kephart - no real data, no real handling, and a worn out knife

two: no clear understanding... if it's not 100% Kephart, it's not a Kephart. that's even without the blessing of the Kephart foundation/family/museum/etc...

three: see above, any interpretation or variant, is not a Kephart. you can't put tweener handles on that blade and call it a Kephart, unless the Family says "that's cool" and even then, imho...

four: the steel. seriously. cruicible steels for the copies i've seen? at least no coatings, but newp. not a Kephart.

it's either the thing, or it's a cool authorized collaboration.

afaik, NOBODY, is any of those... nobody. how can they be? they have NO data. also, no authorizations.

hey, fun fact: the number of people allowed to touch and measure the museum Kephart is approximately: NONE

Since Ethan has a "like new" basically not worn out, never sharpened, pristine item: his knife is THE authority on what that knife should be, and he knows the family now. anyone with a copy on the market? probably never saw an original, certainly didn't see this one, and is based on articles, drawings, and speculation...

as much as i respect the intent of many enthusiasts, provenance on a thing like this is everything, only Ehtan has it for this case. i have a snarky pro-comment i'll reserve over sips of rye, privately :D

all, or none.

keep your eyes peeled. i know too much. yet. not enough :D
Click to expand...
Damn you're windy. :D I couldn't agree more. No tweener handle on a Kephart. Besides the tweener handles being too small for me anyway, I agree that it should have the Kephart shaped handle. As far as the coating, I think at least a clear coat would be good, to prohibit rusting. Can always strip it off, no matter what coating it would have on it.

Bladite said:
the only sad part, is that your designs are probably too good, and KaBar/Ethan/etc would have to basically go out of their way to produce designs that didn't "infringe" on your designs, as it were. or in other words, you'd have to completely sign off that your designs are not their designs, etc...

like movie scripts, and lots of intellectual design, the fan stuff has to be dismissed at cost of the production stuff, even where it's obvious in intent and design that the makers had a clear pathway, many a fan might think otherwise

in my view: there are N (let's say 37) basic knife designs, and Ethan has use a few of those, and a few i'd like to see him make, but that are not unique to anyone...

from a mathemagical point of point: establish a handle for human use (and materials and ...): beyond that, there is an edged tool. assume practical and not fantasy (ie: one point). assume working edge on one side, assume usable lengths based on task, opposite to that of the thumb pad. shapes: determine work and usage: cutting, skinning, wood craft carving, slicing, etc. establish point relation: up, centered, down; choose tip shape based on several profiles; establish edge profiles; ...

even then, not easy... but the math is clear.
Click to expand...
Sorry I'm that damn good. ;) I would sign off in a hot second if need be. Besides being a huge Becker fan, and a Beckerhead, and even though I haven't met the man personally, I can't help but to like Ethan. Good people, as far as I'm concerned. He's been good to all of us. I wouldn't stand in his way. I was super excited about Ethan obtaining the Kephart, and sharing it with all of us, hence why I did the rendering. Actually, I'm surprised Ethan's Horace Kephart thread hasn't gotten more responses. Especially after he visited the Western Carolina University Library & Mountain Heritage Center, to see the original. That's freaking exciting in my book, and only you, myself, and Bill Siegle have responded to his findings.
 
I recently picked up an Ontario Blackbird which in my eyes is an OKC styled Kephart. Basically a 5" spear point blade on a typical blocky micarta Ontario style handle. I am actually so far quite smitten with the Blackbird and find the handle very comfortable, I don't intend to knock the handle at all. I was using it side by side with the Bk16 and was comparing the two. I love the 5 inch spear point blade and thought I would play around and see what that blade might look like on a tweener handle. I think it looks amazing and seeing as how a "Beckhart" has been mentioned a few times and seeing as how Ethan is a fan of the Kephart I thought I might post this here for your viewing pleasure.

I know, it isn't a Kephart with a tweener handle. Just call it a spear point tweener then. ;) Or maybe a Beckerized Dadley? Isn't the Kephart sort of Horace's refined adaptation of the Dadley?

As always, opinions and feedback are always welcomed and encouraged. :)

The original pic. I took a pic of them together to hopefully not have to deal with the proportions at all and just do a cut and paste. It seemed to work well.
tIXgwPn.jpg


The mashup. I would buy this knife in a split second without thinking twice. Maybe keeping the blade at 5 inches would make it different enough from the BK16 to make is more feasible in the product line?
MFUrlVn.jpg
 
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bearfacedkiller said:
I recently picked up an Ontario Blackbird which in my eyes is an OKC styled Kephart. Basically a 5" spear point blade on a typical blocky micarta Ontario style handle. I am actually so far quite smitten with the Blackbird and find the handle very comfortable, I don't intend to knock the handle at all. I was using it side by side with the Bk16 and was comparing the two. I love the 5 inch spear point blade and thought I would play around and see what that blade might look like on a tweener handle. I think it looks amazing and seeing as how a "Beckhart" has been mentioned a few times and seeing as how Ethan is a fan of the Kephart I thought I might post this here for your viewing pleasure.

I know, it isn't a Kephart with a tweener handle. Just call it a spear point tweener then. ;) Or maybe a Beckerized Dadley? Isn't the Kephart sort of Horace's refined adaptation of the Dadley?

As always, opinions and feedback are always welcomed and encouraged. :)

The original pic. I took a pic of them together to hopefully not have to deal with the proportions at all and just do a cut and paste. It seemed to work well.
tIXgwPn.jpg


The mashup. I would buy this knife in a split second without thinking twice. Maybe keeping the blade at 5 inches would make it different enough from the BK16 to make is more feasible in the product line?
MFUrlVn.jpg
Click to expand...
;)
 
the first photo has 5" blade the second is 4 1/2" both cool, but which do you like better?
3rd pic shows what a bk16 mod would look like.

20171027_134859.jpg 20171027_135019.jpg
20171027_141050.jpg
 
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Pretty easy to grind the nose off a BK-16 and come up with that stumpy spear-point profile. Sure, it would be about 1/4" shorter, but that's nothing.
 
Very true Daizee, you could make around a 4 incher out of a BK16 without too much work. One of these days. ;)

Bladesmith, I like bigger myself. I would go for a full 5", maybe even 5.5". Maybe 5/32" stock? Boy, now I am dreaming!
 
I am thinking about making one this weekend. I like the bigger version also. a bk16 is pretty good stock, so, something
different to make the effort worthwhile. lol
 
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