I'd say it's already gone to hell, in about 3 different directions.
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"Horizon" 2014 new knives Lightning quick opening, from china Reate custom knives inc
- Thread starter ReaTe
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I'd say it's already gone to hell, in about 3 different directions.
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The article you link to seems more concerned about sole authorship, which I somewhat loosely use to determine custom knives, and not quite as much about being created to certain specifications.
The term custom in the knife world, as well as the world of many high-end goods, has become a useful term for products that are usually made one at a time and are seen through start to finish by one, or very occasionally two, individuals. The redefinition has already happened, what people like you are suggesting is to come up with a new and different term for an entire class of product. That just seems silly, since the word that we are using describes it more than adequately. Items that are made to the end users specifications are easily described as such, no need for the word custom to solely describe them. There's also the simple issue of flexibility. What if I contact a maker and ask for a Loveless pattern drop point hunter? The end result was custom built to my specifications, but it's also one of the most reproduced knife designs ever made, so is it a custom or not? The current vernacular neatly eliminates all of those concerns by grouping many different types of blade under the broad heading of custom and allowing individual craftsmen to further describe their product.
Back to the topic at hand, I'm curious to hear impressions of the knife once some people get their hands on it. I would love to see more high quality cutlery coming from China.
Where did you get a NIB Starbenza or CRK Umnumzaan for less than 350? I've never seen that kind of price before from any reputable dealer.
@Reate, the OP
Pretty good start. I would suggest choosing a nicer looking maker's stamp or logo on the blade though, or leaving the option for a sterile blade.
I'd also suggest looking at other options such as a smooth contoured nontextured handle. Maybe even a design that has a bolster and CF/micarta scale on the nonlocking side, like these photos below (just an example)
There are a lot of full Ti or Ti framelocks with a G10/CF scale, but bolstered knives are relatively uncommon.
Not going to bite at that price.
Features wise, it's great.
The handles look great. So does the clip.
Design wise, however, it looks unsophisticated.
The logo is a travesty. Truly. I'd rather have the knife sterile than have that on it.
Fit and finish is going to be a major question for an untried and unreviewed maker. The blade finish looks like a rough sandblasting which can hide a lot.
As others have said, it's a hard sell from China at that price point. I bought both of my ZT0777 M390's at $380. Compared to what is available at the $350 price point it's a tough sell to me.
Features wise, it's great.
The handles look great. So does the clip.
Design wise, however, it looks unsophisticated.
The logo is a travesty. Truly. I'd rather have the knife sterile than have that on it.
Fit and finish is going to be a major question for an untried and unreviewed maker. The blade finish looks like a rough sandblasting which can hide a lot.
As others have said, it's a hard sell from China at that price point. I bought both of my ZT0777 M390's at $380. Compared to what is available at the $350 price point it's a tough sell to me.
I think the "Horizon A 's handle is different from the ZT560,that is a brand-new design.
Okay. You can't really compare the price of a used knife to a factory new one though. Someone had to buy that knife for 400+$ from a dealer first, then take a loss on it on the sale.
I also don't get the comparisons to the ZT 0560 earlier in this thread. Yeah it's a 200$ knife, but it only has Ti on the lockside, and a SS liner + G10 on the other. The cost of materials and machining for that liner + G10 isn't as expensive as a Ti piece, especially one with a integral (half) backspacer.
It does. Looks even better on the knife it was originally designed for
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They look nice but it's about twice the price I'd pay for them.
More than a Brous Mini Division and a lot more than ZT 0801 ?
More than a Brous Mini Division and a lot more than ZT 0801 ?
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I think that, if you go to a knife maker and ask him to create something, even if it's a common pattern, or design, then it's a custom. However, if you picked the design out of his or her gallery of previous designs, then it's more of a "mid-tech", "production" knife, because he or she had made it before. It's about getting a unique piece, something the knife maker has never made before. The definition might become a bit confusing in such scenarios, and might seem to stretch into other avenues of knife making, but it does not, and it's not enough to warrant an additional definition of the word.
"Handmade" or "Mid-Tech" might be more apt to describe what you are describing - a knife maker or 2 making knives from scratch.
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Boy,god help anyone from China who wants to try to market a knife by starting off here.
But why would they want to start off here?
I can't think of any American knife company that started off making knives in America to sell in China.
It seems they would market to the Chinese people..theres something like a Billion or more people in China..a huge market.
I would like to know the price of one of these knives for a person that lives in China..I'd bet its a lot less than $350.
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"But why would they want to start off here? "
Because this is a knife enthusiast website? Because BF is known all over the world? Why wouldn't they want to put this here? I just hope that the small portion of brand loyalists here don't discourage any other potential makers that want to bring something new to the table. There is a world outside of BM, Spyderco and Kershaw...
Because this is a knife enthusiast website? Because BF is known all over the world? Why wouldn't they want to put this here? I just hope that the small portion of brand loyalists here don't discourage any other potential makers that want to bring something new to the table. There is a world outside of BM, Spyderco and Kershaw...
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Again, neither are fair comparisons. Find an American made knife that's all machined Ti with an integral backspacer, M390 blade and bearing system- then compare prices.
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Well, it's better than someone buying a S&W or MTech...At least they have a name for the steel!
Even if it isn't what they say it is.
What's wrong with S&W or MTech? My first 2 blades were a S&W SWAT II, and some unknown Mtech model. Both were solid performers, the SWAT II has beat out many more expensive blades. I've done things to that SWAT II that make me cringe, and it kept going.
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goldie
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If everyone is perfectly happy with spydercos that are made in taiwan,these arent really too far off the mark from them.15 years ago anything made there was considered junk,too,now look where they are,& with the latest equipment its easier to come up with a good product quickly,like Kizer has done.
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You ask that on BladeForums? I'm not even going to get into it...
You're going to stand by your statement that it's better to spend a lot of cash (which you have a lot of) to get steel that's probably not as advertised vs. a Taylor made knife that's given me tons of use and cost 20 bucks?
New thread in General made to discuss this in more depth.
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People buy knives from Lionsteel, Shirogorov, and Extrema Ratio all the time (just to name some knives that originate overseas) and some have prices that are more than double of the Horizon. I don't see what the problem is, or why some people are giving ReaTe a hard time. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there are not many knives out there that offer what the Horizon does. I can only think of one that comes close, and I don't much care for it.
Don't like the recurve? Reprofile it out, no big deal. The Ti-slab design is uninspired? You should check out many other knives with the same bland design aesthetic that costs more, with lesser bladesteel, and less design features. I happen to really like Ti framelocks a lot, so this catches my eye.
If someone puts out a product that competes in workmanship and materials, and is competitive in price, they'll get my money. Country of origin is secondary. As for the Chinese, they've been forging steel for a very long time.
Don't like the recurve? Reprofile it out, no big deal. The Ti-slab design is uninspired? You should check out many other knives with the same bland design aesthetic that costs more, with lesser bladesteel, and less design features. I happen to really like Ti framelocks a lot, so this catches my eye.
If someone puts out a product that competes in workmanship and materials, and is competitive in price, they'll get my money. Country of origin is secondary. As for the Chinese, they've been forging steel for a very long time.