How do you guys feel about China copies?

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It is your money, I think you should be able to spend it on whatever you want. Half of the stuff you buy comes from China these days. I've got some copies that are good and some that are questionable. The copies are never as good as the originals that I own. You get what you pay for.
 
I don't get it, why ppl in US try to get icon knives at any price even for beating.
Why non US citizens need to support greedy knifemaker who ask for their knives many hundreds of bucks ?
Why anyone who wants Hinderer should overpay at least twice to a military who got it for MSRP ??
I'd better get the same quality clone with no marks from the same materials for much less.
I suppose nothing will happen even if one, two or all icon names stop producing their knives.
New knifemakers would quickly take their places.
 
To me there are two questions involved, 1) copies and 2) knives made in China? Copies suck and should not be bought, because you support the ones making the copies and making a profit at the expense of the original maker. Now, the quality of knives made in China vary from crap to very good, and I think you can get good quality at a great price if the manufactures keep a handle on quality control and the manufacturing process. Now I think it is okay if one wants to buy inexpensive Chinese knives to get some use out of them without spending an arm and a leg as long as those same ones are not trying to pretend to be the real thing, come up with their own design, not just a copy the original!
 
I think each customer has his own exclusive rights to buy any knife he wants, made in any country by any manufacture or knifemaker. It's his own money, his own decision.
He could buy cheap, expensive, original, fake, copy or replica. No one to blame him. That's his own money and not the business of others.
Why should I spend $800 and up for a real Hinderer, or $450 for Strider with defective lock ?
Why I can't at the same time just get a high quality copy with no Hinderer or Strider stump and not to be blamed ?
Why I need to support people who make $200-$300 benefit from a single knife.
Why should I be afraid to admit that the Chinese are making wonderful copies on par with originals.
 
abras said:
Would you buy Mick, Rick and Chris icons paying half as much if they move their production to China or Taiwan with the same quality control ?
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I refuse to buy any of Mick's work anyways. And no I wouldn't buy any of the other two's work, if they moved to China.
 
I have two knives made in China. This was before i really cared, and they were only $15-$20. Theyre really not bad. The thing is, now that i actually have some good knives, i can say that they arent good. Theyre subpar.
 
abras said:
I don't get it, why ppl in US try to get icon knives at any price even for beating.
Why non US citizens need to support greedy knifemaker who ask for their knives many hundreds of bucks ?
Why anyone who wants Hinderer should overpay at least twice to a military who got it for MSRP ??
I'd better get the same quality clone with no marks from the same materials for much less.
I suppose nothing will happen even if one, two or all icon names stop producing their knives.
New knifemakers would quickly take their places.
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implying it will be the same quality or actually the same material ( I have seen 440a stamped at D2 before)
 
The part about these threads that I don't get is that people seem to lump the counterfeit knives with the cheapo "similar to but not claiming to be the original" copies.

I get why the actual counterfeits are evil, they hurt sales. People are either unknowingly swindled into buying a fake or are intentionally buying a look-a-like to pass off as real themselves (e.g. a woman buying a fake handbag for $150 instead of the designer's real item at $1500, knowing it's faked so well that nobody will be able to tell and then using it). Both situations deprive the true maker/designer/whatever out of making a sale.

The just "similar to in styling" knives are a different animal though. You would have to have a serious cognitive disability to ever confuse these for the items they're styled after.

I can't come up with a single scenario in which those knives cost the true designer/maker/whatever to lose a sale. It strains the credulity to suggest that someone who wants a Hinderer or a CRK would be happy with either of these:

MwwGTQk.jpg


Seriously, someone who wants a Sebenza isn't saying "well, I'll take this $7 knife instead and save $400". No random person off the street wants a Sebenza in the first place. You have to be a certified knife nut to spend hundreds of dollars on luxury knife purchases (I say this as a knife nut moron that just spent >$1k on knives).

I told a co-worker that I was ordering a $600 custom and he asked me "$600 for a knife? what is it, like, gold-plated or something?"

In what universe does someone who knows wants an XM or a Sebenza satisfy that itch by buying a <$10 SRM/Bee/Enlan/whatever knife? Seriously, people believe this is happening?

Counterfeits are evil, sure. Cheapo looks-kinda-like-it knives like the two above I'm not so sure about. I fail to see how the two knives in the picture would ever cost Chris Reeves or Rick Hinderer a sale.
 
One wise man said "When you buy american mid-tech you pay 1/4 for the knife and 3/4 for a life warranty". ;)
 
Chipped Karambit said:
implying it will be the same quality or actually the same material ( I have seen 440a stamped at D2 before)
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Otoh, a good number of people who have used both feel the MTech Trailmaster clone is better than the original. Here's a a chopp-off which shows the $25 Chinese "junk" knife nicely keeping pace with a Spyder Hossom Forrester:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bpsnwg5SFs

And US makers often blow heat treats so badly that the extra properties of a super steel are removed - plus the sales talk is often so misleading and the users so clueless (and this includes people who use knife forums) that most knife buyers have no idea what they are paying for in a steel upgrade anyway.
 
abras said:
I think each customer has his own exclusive rights to buy any knife he wants, made in any country by any manufacture or knifemaker. It's his own money, his own decision.
He could buy cheap, expensive, original, fake, copy or replica. No one to blame him. That's his own money and not the business of others.
Why should I spend $800 and up for a real Hinderer, or $450 for Strider with defective lock ?
Why I can't at the same time just get a high quality copy with no Hinderer or Strider stump and not to be blamed ?
Why I need to support people who make $200-$300 benefit from a single knife.
Why should I be afraid to admit that the Chinese are making wonderful copies on par with originals.
Click to expand...

This is the silliest post I have ever read. It is clear you have never handled the original CRK and hinderers if you think the ripoffs are the same quality.

Not to mention the moral factor of these companies stealing our intellectual property. Did they have to spend all the time and money for R & D? Why would they when they can just rip off someone else proven designs.

abras said:
He could buy cheap, expensive, original, fake, copy or replica. No one to blame him. That's his own money and not the business of others.
Click to expand...

No one to blame him and not the business of others? Of course it is, that person is supporting thieves who make money on the backs of others. Every time you purchase a counterfeit you should send some money to the original designer of that product.
 
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abras said:
I think each customer has his own exclusive rights to buy any knife he wants, made in any country by any manufacture or knifemaker. It's his own money, his own decision.
He could buy cheap, expensive, original, fake, copy or replica. No one to blame him. That's his own money and not the business of others.
Why should I spend $800 and up for a real Hinderer, or $450 for Strider with defective lock ?
Why I can't at the same time just get a high quality copy with no Hinderer or Strider stump and not to be blamed ?
Why I need to support people who make $200-$300 benefit from a single knife.
Why should I be afraid to admit that the Chinese are making wonderful copies on par with originals.
Click to expand...

Bought a clone Sebenza to study and post pictures.

What I received was a piece of crap. Didn't even bother posting pictures, anyone who can be fooled by this piece of junk is seriously nutty and beyond help.
Blade does not lock, and has considerable blade play. I mean CONSIDERABLE.
5 washes were used to sandwhich the the blade. Screws and female parts are crap.
Over all pretty disappointing for $50 I paid. Worst knife I've owned, and I've owned some crappy Coast knives.
 
meanwhile said:
Otoh, a good number of people who have used both feel the MTech Trailmaster clone is better than the original. Here's a a chopp-off which shows the $25 Chinese "junk" knife nicely keeping pace with a Spyder Hossom Forrester:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bpsnwg5SFs
Click to expand...

Cold steel isn't an American made product.

And US makers often blow heat treats so badly that the extra properties of a super steel are removed - plus the sales talk is often so misleading and the users so clueless (and this includes people who use knife forums) that most knife buyers have no idea what they are paying for in a steel upgrade anyway.
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I am not doubting you, but I am seriously interested in your statement. Can you please give examples of these American made companies that "often" screw up the heat treat and ruin the added advantages of these super steels?
 
egally08 said:
Every time you purchase a counterfeit you should send some money to the original designer of that product.
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When you pay $800-1200 for a Hinderer, how much money goes to Rick's pocket ?
Copy makers should pay royalties to Rick.
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abras said:
When you pay $800-1200 for a Hinderer, how much money goes to Rick's pocket ?
Copy makers should pay royalties to Rick.
0_96432_2fa28011_L
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How does the secondary market pricing have anything to do with this discussion? Rick was already paid the full amount he asked for. So you are under the impression that every time a knife switches hands, the maker should be paid again? That's wonkey and you are just spouting irrelevance to distract from the lack of your argument

You say that they should pay him royalties, but they don't. We all know that, yet you still endorse and support them why?
 
They don't pay royalties and that's the problem. But you know, they don't break their laws. What to do, China doesn't respect copyright.
 
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