How public are you with your knives?

[aicolainen]

I was going to say something about how this thread derailed into a tool/weapon discussion, but killgar summed it up quite nicely. So on topic:

Local laws:
Norway, where I live, has the strangest knife laws. Any sharp object that can be used to hurt somebody is forbidden to carry. So far, so stupid, but the best has yet to come. If you have a relevant reason to carry a knife, or any other sharp object like a screw driver or a ski pole, then it's suddenly OK - Apparently. But he law doesn't specify what is to be considered relevant reason, so we have to make our best guess and take our chances.
The really interesting side effect of this is that you could, but likely won't, get charged for illegally carrying a weapon in public if you forget a screw driver in your back pocket when you leave work. But you can legally open carry a machete at the grocery store, if you are actually just making a stop on your way to the jungle.

Moral of the story, stay out of trouble and keep a low profile and you can carry most anything you could possibly need. Note, self defense is not a reason to carry anything, and automatics are forbidden by law, so won't do any good to go crazy tactical.

How public am I?
Myself, I'm not really into big knifes so I'm not likely to get in trouble no matter where or when I carry.
I mostly opt for a deep carry knife for EDC, and SOG Flash 1 has seen a lot of pocket time lately. My folding knife decease is less than a year going, so I haven't really had a lot to choose from up until now, but I'm starting to get a feel for what I like and new knives arrive maybe more often than my bank account appreciates nowadays. With the selection I have now, I can take the knife I find most suitable for the tasks ahead, but generally i find that "less is more".

Both knives and guns are unfortunately on a downward slope when it comes to social acceptance and political correctness, so whenever I need my knife in office or other urban setting, I do my thing and put it back in pocket.
In any outdoor setting I carry the knife I find suitable in they way I find most suitable, and never worry. If you are dressed for any kind of practical work or outdoor activity, knives are considered part of the uniform, and nobody lifts an eyebrow.

I'm probably not the most outgoing person, and try to avoid unnecessary attention, but that won't keep me from using my knife in public when needed. However I'm very glad to see other knife owners wear their knives more visibly and maybe even act more proactively to help solve tasks for other people with their knives. Because I think the only way we can educate the general public and preserve our rights is to let people actually experience that there are lots of responsible knife owners, and also see that a knives are really useful tools that can assist in a lot of daily chores. We wouldn't achieve this by totally hiding our knives.


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[SW-EDC]

Let's just say here in So. Cali, my co-workers are morons.
Don't get knives, guns, freedom, keep more of your money, etc.
I really don't give a shit as most are financial train wrecks voting for the other side.
My wife and I are fine (financially) and will watch them fall (again) unfortunately..if that's the case.

 

[sabre cat]

In regards to the bold parts, I think you're position is more a matter of personal philosophy rather than real-world reality.

Philosophically it could be said that a gun/knife/frying pan is not a weapon unless and until someone USES it to harm another person. But the fact is, many items have been designed specifically as weapons, and many items are specifically defined as weapons in the law.

As far as knives, the Gerber Mark 2, and the Fairbairn/Sykes dagger, aren't exactly "utility" knives. Just to name a few.

And then there are items like brass knuckles (and knuckle knives). It's hard to argue that those have any use other than as weapons.

And although I consider many anti-knife laws to be stupid, the fact is- how we define a knife (weapon or tool) means absolutely nothing to the cop who arrests you, or the prosecutor who files charges against you, if the written law considers your knife to be a weapon. If the law says a knife is a weapon, and if it's against the law to carry or possess that knife, then that's all it takes to send a person to jail, where they can then explain to their fellow inmates at length, and over many months, how a knife isn't a weapon, it's a tool.

There is the way we want things to be, and then there is the way things are. And unfortunately here in the US, as well as many other countries, knives are often defined as weapons by the law. And you ain't gonna beat the law with a philosophy.

LOL. You may be right. I still am waiting for the law, common sense, and philosophy all to be on the same page. Doubt that I will ever see it happen.

I will admit that many things have been designed specifically as weapons. Some more effective than others. Many are so well designed that they are not practical for anything else. Let's use the M1 Abrams tank for our example. One of the best battle tanks of all time. I won't even try to argue that it is not a weapon. That would just be silly. However, it still needs a crew to be used effectively, so we are back to the point where someone has to take some sort of action. This is also true with the Gerber Mark II, the Fairbairn/Sykes dagger, and brass knuckles. Action has to be taken. In a way, that is my point. Action has to be taken. That tank or dagger is not really a danger to anyone until a person makes it so.

And yet, we have a huge part of our society that assumes your action and intent just because you own or carry something. Be it a folding knife, handgun, motorcycle, etc. Unfortunately, a large portion of these people desire safety instead of freedom and demand relief from our elected officials. That is when I start seeing garbage from our knee jerk politicians that makes something illegal (or it becomes a weapon) and we are handed laws that don't really help. The problem usually does not go away. At times the laws even make things worse.

There are two things that I normally see happen under these conditions. One, some of our rights and freedoms are taken away. And number two, the sheeple are still scared.

FWIW, I have to agree, you can't beat the law with a philosophy. All though, someone's philosophy was behind law to begin with.

BTW, Enjoyed your response to my opinion.

 

[pinnah]

And yet, we have a huge part of our society that assumes your action and intent just because you own or carry something. Be it a folding knife, handgun, motorcycle, etc. Unfortunately, a large portion of these people desire safety instead of freedom and demand relief from our elected officials. That is when I start seeing garbage from our knee jerk politicians that makes something illegal (or it becomes a weapon) and we are handed laws that don't really help. The problem usually does not go away. At times the laws even make things worse.

If we look at it from a public safety standpoint, I think we can agree that
A) Some things are inherently more dangerous than others and thus worthy of tighter regulations
B) Some situations pose great chances of bad things being done to more people and warrant tighter regulations.

I'm flying on a commercial flight as I type this and accept that planes, by their nature are dangerous and I'm glad that there are tight regulations on who is allowed to fly them.

Likewise, I also recognize that a commercial flight offers a higher risk of bad things being done, so I'm glad that things like big knives are prohibited in carry on (although really, the US should adopt the EU standard and allow small pen blades so I won't have to carry a de-bladed Mirca as I am).

I think if we can accept common sense understandings that a) people aren't nuts to see our knives, particularly our larger knives and fixed/locking knives, as inherently more dangerous than other day to day objects and b) there are contexts where people will be more or less accepting of a knife being used, things will go a lot smoother and will be less likely to go knee jerk and overboard on restrictions (like the current TSA ban on all blades is).

 

[shinyedges]

Good lord, the "common sense" let's make more regulations argument. Someone watches CNN to much.

You won't convince anyone here of that propaganda. How's that common sense regulations going in Chicago? Oh wait, regulating bad intentions is impossible, and disarming law abiding citizens is the only actual effect?

Take that non sense somewhere else.

 

[Thefinaledge]

If we look at it from a public safety standpoint, I think we can agree that
A) Some things are inherently more dangerous than others and thus worthy of tighter regulations
B) Some situations pose great chances of bad things being done to more people and warrant tighter regulations.

I'm flying on a commercial flight as I type this and accept that planes, by their nature are dangerous and I'm glad that there are tight regulations on who is allowed to fly them.

Likewise, I also recognize that a commercial flight offers a higher risk of bad things being done, so I'm glad that things like big knives are prohibited in carry on (although really, the US should adopt the EU standard and allow small pen blades so I won't have to carry a de-bladed Mirca as I am).

I think if we can accept common sense understandings that a) people aren't nuts to see our knives, particularly our larger knives and fixed/locking knives, as inherently more dangerous than other day to day objects and b) there are contexts where people will be more or less accepting of a knife being used, things will go a lot smoother and will be less likely to go knee jerk and overboard on restrictions (like the current TSA ban on all blades is).

A plane was hijacked with boxcutters. There goes the whole "big bad knife" argument. Some things are inherently more dangerous? Do you mean statistically some objects cause more injury and death? Because if we are going to use facts here....... Your argument is going to fail. Repeatedly.

 

[shinyedges]

I suppose you'd be supportive of banning pointy kitchen knives as well...http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm

There's a few countries that are loaded with people who think like you Pinnah, why not move there instead of transform the USA into England.

Good luck finding support here for your hog wash.

 

[shinyedges]

A plane was hijacked with boxcutters. There goes the whole "big bad knife" argument. Some things are inherently more dangerous? Do you mean statistically some objects cause more injury and death? Because if we are going to use facts here....... Your argument is going to fail. Repeatedly.

Maybe cars should banned because they can run over crowds of people

ANYTHING can be used to harm others, regulating everything is impossible and causes the erosion of freedom.

 

[Thefinaledge]

Good lord, the "common sense" let's make more regulations argument. Someone watches CNN to much.

You won't convince anyone here of that propaganda. How's that common sense regulations going in Chicago? Oh wait, regulating bad intentions is impossible, and disarming law abiding citizens is the only actual effect?

Take that non sense somewhere else.

Its the pre crime police. Whoa there buddy, put down that big knife and step away from the bread and peanut butter! You might a could have wigged out and gone all 1980s slasher film on grandma. We know you didn't, and probably never would, but we are going to confiscate your knife, take some of your money and chuck you in the clink. Because you know, feelings

 

[shinyedges]

Its the pre crime police. Whoa there buddy, put down that big knife and step away from the bread and peanut butter! You might a could have wigged out and gone all 1980s slasher film on grandma. We know you didn't, and probably never would, but we are going to confiscate your knife, take some of your money and chuck you in the clink. Because you know, feelings

Lol unbelievable right? They want the government to make them 100% safe 100% of the time. Fearful, illogical, emotionally stunted individuals.

 

[Thefinaledge]

Maybe cars should banned because they can run over crowds of people

ANYTHING can be used to harm others, regulating everything is impossible and causes the erosion of freedom.

Reminds me of My name is Earl. Rock has been upgraded to felony but good news stick is still a misdemeanor!

 

[pinnah]

Regulating blade length doesn't make sense when you have all the information. For example: Did you know that it only takes a blade length of 1/2 of an inch to kill a fully grown man.

Hey Trevor, the way I see it, the fact that you can kill somebody with a 1/2" blade doesn't invalidate the efficacy of, say, a 3" blade limit as is common in some high crime cities in exactly the same way that the fact that you can kill a person with a car at 15mph doesn't invalidate the efficacy of a 35mph speed limit is common in some residential neighborhoods.

The point of a 35mph isn't to stop all car related deaths. The point is to minimize the overall number of deaths and to give cops something to charge people with when they act up and speed dangerously. In a city like Boston which is near me, they have problems with drunken college students getting into brawls and with gang violence and their 3" blade limit is designed to minimize the number of knife related deaths and injuries (not eliminate them) and to give cops somethings to use to arrest guys who are posing a threat.

This is sensible to me, just as a 35mph is. Note, I break both laws regularly but I don't in trouble with the law and I use a lot of discretion.

My 6" buck 119 special is a horrible weapon

I think that most people would see a 6" Buck 119 as a more dangerous weapon in the hands of your run of the mill drunk and disorderly type or your average street thug than, say, a 3" Buck 113. I'll reckon there are some martial arts types who would prefer a 3" blade, but that's not what the laws are about. The laws are about the average case, and the average thugs and bar fights.

Personally in a fight, I'd much rather have my old-school maglite. The same flashlight carried by police. I hold it by the button and I have about a foot and a half of metal to swing at you and block your knife. I don't have a "chip on my shoulder" either. I am just passionate about my hobby

Trevor, 99% of this thread is about using judgement in context. If I were out walking my dog in the early evening and encountered you carrying one of those big D-cell Maglite and if you were between the ages of 15 and 35, I would just immediately assume you were up to no good. The same would be true if you were carting a 10" screwdriver, a baseball bat, axe or climbing axe.

True story... In college, a buddy and climbing partner of mine rode the subway to a climbing store to buy a climbing axe and when he returned, he said, "It's a lot easier to get a seat on the subway when you're carrying an ice axe."

Things out of context make people nervous and for good reason. Knives used indiscriminately and without justification make people nervous and for good reason, IMO.

 

[Thefinaledge]

Repeated comparisons that don't follow. Pinnah, start showing some facts that support your claim. Your comparisons are apples and barbie dolls. So far apart its out of this world.

 

[shinyedges]

Repeated comparisons that don't follow. Pinnah, start showing some facts that support your claim. Your comparisons are apples and barbie dolls. So far apart its out of this world.

He loses the debate before it starts, his entire opinion is based on emotion. Not logic or reality.

Hard to reason with people who are unreasonable.

 

[Jens Schuetz]

Hey Trevor, the way I see it, the fact that you can kill somebody with a 1/2" blade doesn't invalidate the efficacy of, say, a 3" blade limit as is common in some high crime cities in exactly the same way that the fact that you can kill a person with a car at 15mph doesn't invalidate the efficacy of a 35mph speed limit is common in some residential neighborhoods.

The point of a 35mph isn't to stop all car related deaths. The point is to minimize the overall number of deaths and to give cops something to charge people with when they act up and speed dangerously. In a city like Boston which is near me, they have problems with drunken college students getting into brawls and with gang violence and their 3" blade limit is designed to minimize the number of knife related deaths and injuries (not eliminate them) and to give cops somethings to use to arrest guys who are posing a threat.

This is sensible to me, just as a 35mph is. Note, I break both laws regularly but I don't in trouble with the law and I use a lot of discretion.



I think that most people would see a 6" Buck 119 as a more dangerous weapon in the hands of your run of the mill drunk and disorderly type or your average street thug than, say, a 3" Buck 113. I'll reckon there are some martial arts types who would prefer a 3" blade, but that's not what the laws are about. The laws are about the average case, and the average thugs and bar fights.



Trevor, 99% of this thread is about using judgement in context. If I were out walking my dog in the early evening and encountered you carrying one of those big D-cell Maglite and if you were between the ages of 15 and 35, I would just immediately assume you were up to no good. The same would be true if you were carting a 10" screwdriver, a baseball bat, axe or climbing axe.

True story... In college, a buddy and climbing partner of mine rode the subway to a climbing store to buy a climbing axe and when he returned, he said, "It's a lot easier to get a seat on the subway when you're carrying an ice axe."

Things out of context make people nervous and for good reason. Knives used indiscriminately and without justification make people nervous and for good reason, IMO.

You are still trying logic?
Respect!
The desire for the olden days is stronger. I'm with both sides here.
I understand your arguments but also wish they weren't true when it comes to knives.

I don't think you'll convince anybody here that civilians with a tank instead of a normal car would be more dangerous in an accident and could do more harm if they get angry in the heat of the moment or even planned to use it as a weapon. If I wanted to drive that kind of automobile to Costco I'll be unable to follow your logic or at least pretend to. Is it precrime to prevent civillians from driving tanks because most wouldnt have accidents, rage or be terrorists or is just reducing the probability of such incidents in a reasonable way?

The only problem is where is the balance between protecting society as a whole and individual freedom?

Its great that we are in a democracy. We could spend our time more effectivly to write senators. You can write some senators and us knife nuts too.

 

[Wilsonhome]

Trevor, 99% of this thread is about using judgement in context. If I were out walking my dog in the early evening and encountered you carrying one of those big D-cell Maglite and if you were between the ages of 15 and 35, I would just immediately assume you were up to no good. The same would be true if you were carting a 10" screwdriver, a baseball bat, axe or climbing axe.

.

This is really all you needed to say. If you see someone carrying a flashlight in the early evening you think they are up to no good. Honestly, this explains your views on knives very well.

 

[James Y]

Let's just say here in So. Cali, my co-workers are morons.
Don't get knives, guns, freedom, keep more of your money, etc.
I really don't give a shit as most are financial train wrecks voting for the other side.
My wife and I are fine (financially) and will watch them fall (again) unfortunately..if that's the case.

I live in So. Cal, but my co-workers have no problems with my knives. And I work in an environment that many here might describe is 'liberal' (a massage/wellness center). I only open them when I need to cut something or open packages. They're quite familiar with it and don't even raise an eyebrow when I use a knife, not even the owners of the place. I don't make a big deal about it, either. One co-worker even got himself an S30V Blur after seeing me use various knives for years.

Many knife people are hyper-critical of So. Cal, but there are LOTS of worse places regarding acceptance of knives. And like anywhere else, it all depends on your personal environment. You could go to a state that is touted as 'knife and gun-friendly' and end up around a bunch of people who think carrying a knife as a tool is evil or stupid and should be banned. Keep in mind, too, that a HIGH percentage of the American-born people in CA are not originally from CA but from other states. I'm actually CA born and bred.

Jim

 

[pinnah]

The only problem is where is the balance between protecting society as a whole and individual freedom?

A central tension in any democracy, to be sure.

 

[pinnah]

This is really all you needed to say. If you see someone carrying a flashlight in the early evening you think they are up to no good. Honestly, this explains your views on knives very well.

No, that's not what I said.

I frequently encounter people with flashlights in my neighborhood on evening walk. These days, they are almost all small AA LED type things although occasionally I'll see an old plastic D battery light.

But a D cell Maglite is another matter. I know enough cops to know exactly why people carry them and if see a scruffy guy of a certain age carrying one, I'm immediately on guard.

You would be too.

 

[shinyedges]

No, that's not what I said.

I frequently encounter people with flashlights in my neighborhood on evening walk. These days, they are almost all small AA LED type things although occasionally I'll see an old plastic D battery light.

But a D cell Maglite is another matter. I know enough cops to know exactly why people carry them and if see a scruffy guy of a certain age carrying one, I'm immediately on guard.

You would be too.

So let's regulate the size of flashlight people can carry as well? How about when they carry flashlights too? Every word you type illuminates us further into your thought process. Thanks.