How strong is the Liner lock for Spyderco Military?

I am sorry Sal. Those two are not comparable. However if you take two screwdrivers whereas one is pointy and featering a convex edge with the same mass as the other equally pointy screwdriver featuring a straight edge with a pronounced shoulder - than I'd choose the first one ;).

~Paul~

Haha, and still no - I'm not a lawyer :D
 
dePaul said:
I am sorry Sal. Those two are not comparable. However if you take two screwdrivers whereas one is pointy and featering a convex edge with the same mass as the other equally pointy screwdriver featuring a straight edge with a pronounced shoulder - than I'd choose the first one ;).

~Paul~

Haha, and still no - I'm not a lawyer :D
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Thats a terrible analogy... FYI the Military is a FFG so it doesnt have a pronounced shoulder so compared to another FFG blade with a thicker tip it would penetrate easier and deeper all things equal and same amount of force pushing both.
 
kawr said:
I guarantee that if Spyderco goes with thicker tips then we'll have a similar crapstorm with people whining about slicing/penetrating performance. I for one prefer the knife that performs well at what its supposed to do. CUT. I can always pay 10 bucks and get a pocket prybar if thats what I need. I think that Spyderco trys its best to find that solid middle ground between prybar toughness and razor sharp thinness and pretty much succeeds at that.
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A thin convexed edge doesn't have to look like a prybar. Think Opinel ;). Unfortunatelly Opinels come from the factory with rather poor level of sharpness. However, a couple strokes on a sharpening stone gives them an exceptionell level of sharpness and efficiency.

~Paul~
 
kreole said:
Couple things...

"Drag" refers to the resistance of material passing through air or fluid, neither of which meat is :o

Anyway, if the edges are on blades of the same stock thickness, then #2 is going to have more resistance going into the meat for quite a bit of the tip, making it worse at penetrating. What you say about them being equal at the initial penetration (i.e., "at the very edge") can be true, but getting the rest of the tip in is going to be easier with #1. Your argument effectively ignores that more than the very edge penetrates material stabbed in every real situation. Also, cutting with the very edge/tip is called slicing, not penetrating/puncturing/stabbing, so really you're changing the argument.
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It looks like there is a matter of misunderstanding due to the language barriere. The word penetrate does in mind mean to cut through a certain material with either the edge or push the point from one side to the other. The thickness of the material to be cut is not important. I am not talking about disturbing the surface (of the material to be cut) in this case.

~Paul~
 
STR said:
The drawing is not adequate. Lets look at a real pic instead. Para Military 2 left. Demko Custom Triad locking American Lawman HD folder right. Which do you suppose would penetrate easier or slice better? Not to take anything away from one over the other as both do a good job but to make the same cuts or go to the same depths the difference will be the force required. It stands to reason that more force means higher chances of there being less control. If one can make the same cuts with far more control of the cuts it stands to reason that it would be safer also.

I see inertia as being a factor. With enough inertia you could force the Demko as deep as the Para 2 but you could do it just as deep with far less inertia force using the Spyderco and with the same force the Spyderco would go lots further into the meat.

STR
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I am sorry but I am not familiar with the Demko Triad knife. As I said, it all depends on very small geometrical differences. Or as I said in my first post: "Blade geometry is far more complicated than that."

~Paul~
 
kawr said:
Thats a terrible analogy... FYI the Military is a FFG so it doesnt have a pronounced shoulder so compared to another FFG blade with a thicker tip it would penetrate easier and deeper all things equal and same amount of force pushing both.
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The Military is NOT a FFG. A full flat ground blade displays an unbroken line from the back of the blade to the very tip of the edge. The Military has a secondary bevel on a flat body. This "shoulder" in between the body and the edge is the very reason for enhanced friction.

~Paul~
 
dePaul said:
The Military is NOT a FFG. A full flat ground blade displays an unbroken line from the back of the blade to the very tip of the edge. The Military has a secondary bevel on a flat body. This "shoulder" is between the body and the edge is the very reason for enhanced friction.

~Paul~
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Are you SURE you are not a lawyer?

The Military is what everyone else here calls FFG. What you call FFG is often referred to as a flat zero grind by others. It is helpful to stick with common nomenclature when the goal is to communicate.
 
Sorry for that. I assumed the lingo was about the same in all countries. Probably not :D. However, this doesn't change anything in regard to the friction issue ;).

~Paul~

PS I assure you. I am not a lawyer!
 
STR said:
The drawing is not adequate. Lets look at a real pic instead. Para Military 2 left. Demko Custom Triad locking American Lawman HD folder right. Which do you suppose would penetrate easier or slice better? Not to take anything away from one over the other as both do a good job but to make the same cuts or go to the same depths the difference will be the force required. It stands to reason that more force means higher chances of there being less control. If one can make the same cuts with far more control of the cuts it stands to reason that it would be safer also.

I see inertia as being a factor. With enough inertia you could force the Demko as deep as the Para 2 but you could do it just as deep with far less inertia force using the Spyderco and with the same force the Spyderco would go lots further into the meat.

STR
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I thought all of that was Obvious. :confused:
 
As a card carrying (non-lawyer) knuckle dragger, I would be happy to take a hard look a an abuse rated folder. You can't have too many knives.
 
I think the question is a straight forward one and simply answered if we don't overthink it.

We have two knitting needles (or ice picks if you prefer) of .200" diameter. Being knitting needles, both taper to a point. On one the radius at the point is .016" on the other .062". Given equal pressure behind them which will penetrate the barrier of flesh (or whatever soft material) first?

It will be the one with the smaller radius, the sharper tip.

Take our same needles, ice picks this time and made of identical steel with the same radii at the tips. Given the job of an ice pick- to be stabbed at high velocity into a frozen mass of ice and so break it up into smaller portions_ which radius will be better.

It will be the larger-heavy duty-radius. It will tend to resist deformation longer and still be pointy enough for the job.

(Of course you can always toss a towel over the mass of ice and break it up with a hammer, which would be easy. But a real knife guy wouldn't do that, they would take a folder and beat on the end of it with a hammer to drive it into the block to break up the ice, make a video of it and then debate for 10 pages which lock is strongest based on their ice breaking up test.)

So the use to which you intend to put a tool should determine the qualities of it's construction (the length of blade, type of steel, grind, width, etc.). The latter can also be markers to the purposes of a knife and it's role.

Looking at a knife tells you more about how it should be used than it's name. If a knife is called "The Military" it does not mean it can dig ditches, or do what a 6" Ka-bar did in Korea.

A Besh wedge, or American grind tanto, will not penetrate as easily as other blade types. But it is heck-a-hard to break the tip on a Buck Bravo.

tipoc
 
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To be sure, I kinda expected the "Military" would have been built more like Rick Hinderer's XM-18, thick and beefy. Especially given the rough sounding name.

But I guess there are fixed blades that are better suited to use as a prybar(as well as actual prybars of course).
 
STR said:
You would think that would be the case wouldn't you?
Apparently things are more complicated than that though. ;)
STR
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I dunno man, I think it's clear as day. :D

Don't even need an Engineering degree for that one. :D
 
That's ok Paul,

Your "non answer" speaks cleary enough.

Ankerson said:
I thought all of that was Obvious. :confused:
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Mr. Ankerson might be seeing some light, time will tell.

Perhaps we will be fortunatel enough to pry an answer out of Singularity?

sal
 
Noctis3880 said:
To be sure, I kinda expected the "Military" would have been built more like Rick Hinderer's XM-18, thick and beefy. Especially given the rough sounding name.

But I guess there are fixed blades that are better suited to use as a prybar(as well as actual prybars of course).
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Hi Noctis.

Spyderco is primarily about the cut.

I carry a small Ed Schempp forged titanium prybar, that will pry better than any knife, fixed or folder.

sal
 
dePaul said:
The Military is NOT a FFG. A full flat ground blade displays an unbroken line from the back of the blade to the very tip of the edge. The Military has a secondary bevel on a flat body. This "shoulder" in between the body and the edge is the very reason for enhanced friction.

~Paul~
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that would be a zero edge with a full flat grind.
 
Sal Glesser said:
That's ok Paul,

Your "non answer" speaks cleary enough.



Mr. Ankerson might be seeing some light, time will tell.

Perhaps we will be fortunatel enough to pry an answer out of Singularity?

sal
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Sal,

I like thin bladed slicers too now, always have. :D

I am as you say a Knuckledragger, but I like to have a choice of what I carry and I like both. :thumbup:

I still can't wait to get the Para 2 once it gets here. :D :thumbup:

Ideal for me would be to have a choice of a thin bladed slicer and lets say more of a HD (Abuse Type) knife both with awesome steel, quality and F&F all from Spyderco. :thumbup:

I do know what slices and penetrates better and enough about blade and edge geometry to know what will do what. I can figure out the basics and the common since stuff. I am not an expert, nor do I claim to be, I leave that up to you and the other knife companies.

I can make them cut once I get them. :D
 
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