Hype vs. Honesty

i (as many others here) severely dislike cs's advertising.

this said, i have a cs recon1 which i use as my every-day all-purpose knife and i happen to think it's a good knife.

as for the steel companies use, i won't start another lecture on 'chemical composition vs. thermal treatment'. 440 should be a good enough steel for just about any purpose, save salt-water.
but i guess, this is more of a religious question :)...


00h
 
Cobalt said:
Well, say what you will about CS, but when I talked to Lynn umpteen years ago and worked the deal for Cliff to get a Trailmaster and Recon Scout to destroy and compare to other blades, Lynn had no problem with that. He may be a BS'er but then he believes his own BS, because he is willing to put up, unlike so many others in the industry.

His knives fared miserable against Busse's Basic .
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Sounds like you were close to Mr. Thompson at the time. Do you know what his reaction was to the results of these tests?
 
STR said:
Apparently you have not read post number 86 Cliff which is what I am responding to there in that quote.
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That was kind of extreme, likely influenced by the recent 420 introduction which threw a lot of people and caused the company to take a large downgrade in perspective from many people. They still have lots of solid products, I like many of the FRN models as nice working knives similar to the FRN Spyderco's like the Endura.

What that is much cheaper is on the market that can outperform this $150 Trail Master Bowie?
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You raised the arguement that if looked at from a price perspective the Trailmaster can "outperform" a custom forged bowie because it is 2-3 times cheaper and thus the performance if scaled by cost could allow Cold Steel's promotion.

However you can easily pick up a cheap bowie and make the same arguement which invalidates it. It isn't going to have 10x the performance of a Tramontina, and from a price/performance ratio it would get mauled by the Becker Combat Bowie.

db said:
In fact it seems to make more sense to me to test the knives with warranties that are very limited rather than the ones with the replace it no matter what warranty.
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That is an interesting perspective, do you buy all your gear under similar guidelines?

-Cliff
 
from a price/performance ratio it would get mauled by the Becker Combat Bowie.
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Yeah until you pryed with it.

Aren't both the Carbon V and the steel in that Becker exactly the same steel only in different thickness? I believe they are.

STR
 
Originally Posted by db
In fact it seems to make more sense to me to test the knives with warranties that are very limited rather than the ones with the replace it no matter what
warranty.

Cliff said...
"That is an interesting perspective, do you buy all your gear under similar guidelines?"
I don't base my buying on any warranty.
 
STR said:
Yeah until you pryed with it.
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The Trailmaster is stronger through the main body, it is significantly thicker, however the tip taper is very fine so it isn't going to be stronger there, and this is only one aspect. The Becker is also much more durable in regard to grip, has a better sheath, similar sharpness, better cutting ability. The Trailmaster would take it significantly in chopping, but again the Becker is a lot cheaper, factor that in and it becomes hard to argue for the Trailmaster outperforming it on a performance/price basis.

Aren't both the Carbon V and the steel in that Becker exactly the same steel only in different thickness? I believe they are.
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There are lots of rumors about the steel and manufacturer and relationship between Cold Steel and Camillus. I have heard many including how they are made and heat treated. Generally though, unless someone is willing to say something on public forum I treat it all as idle gossip.

An Ontario bowie would also be hard to beat from a price perspective, something like the Marine Raider has the weight and heft to compete directly with the Trailmaster, assuming you get a solid one anyway, the one I had was decent.

Initial sharpness is likely far less than optimal, but with a few minutes of prep the performance would be more than comparable considering the price.
-Cliff
 
benchmademan said:
i know this is an old post but i haven't been around i awhile. i chose not to expound upon my earlier post with details out of respect for the people involved. i am not involved in that situation so it's not my business. however, the public details (search this forum or other forums on the net for all the details) were more than enough for me to never deal with CS or LT and more than enough for me to see what kind of a person he is and what kind of company he runs. not sharing evidence and not having evidence are two different things. if you want to know, you can dig a little and find out.

besides, they are my reasons. you have your own.

merry christmas.
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So, you make a provocative statement including veiled accusations and insinuations, and when someone demands proof- or at least some degree of evidence- you tell him to go and do the research to back your statements? What and interesting debating tactic.

Wrong, ineffective, arrogant and poorly executed- but interesting.
 
DngrRuss1 said:
... when someone demands proof- or at least some degree of evidence- you tell him ..
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He tells you exactly where to find the proof, you don't look for it which takes all of two seconds using the means he provided, then you use the lowest form of discourse, an ad hominem arguement.

You have in fact been involved in threads where people listed their problems in detail with Cold Steel such as the recent thread about the Black Sable which many people feel is a rip off of Brian Tighe's custom.

That alone is enough for a lot of people. Then there are other issues such as Thompson's disparaging comments about steels, designs, or promotions and then him turning around and doing the same thing or worse.

In regards to the Thompson/Strider affair, you say he didn't, those involved say he did. When you start thinking about other issues like the above it isn't difficult to see where perspectives like those you quoted come from.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
There are lots of rumors about the steel and manufacturer and relationship between Cold Steel and Camillus. I have heard many including how they are made and heat treated. Generally though, unless someone is willing to say something on public forum I treat it all as idle gossip.
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There are a few cases (reported in the Trad forum here, IIRC) where people bought Camillus seconds and got CS folders with the name ground off- in one case, with the "Carbon V" still showing.
 
Blue Sky said:
Sounds like you were close to Mr. Thompson at the time. Do you know what his reaction was to the results of these tests?
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no, not so close just had met him and talked to him in CA and NV. He is very amiable and really doesn't care what people think. He believes what is in his own mind regardless of what happens outside of it.

He really believed that his trailmaster could best anything out there including the Battlemistress. And he was willing to offer double the money for a Battlemistress to anyone who would send him one. I had one at the time, but I had no intention of giving it up. Instead I asked him to give up two of his knives for a heads up comparison and he did with no hesitation. Most makers would have thought they were being set up, which he wasn't as I liked his knives and I still have a few from back then including a trailmaster that I bought from him at one of the shows. It is Carbon V and convexed. I am not sure if it was normal but that one is severely sharp. Anyway, he is actually a very interesting person to talk to and very friendly in person.

I have no problem with his company or his product, I kow where it stands in the scheme of things. His Carbon V stuff is made in the USA (by Camillus)and that is good enough for me.

In fact talking about this may make me take my trailmaster off the sale forum as I know not why I am selling it.:thumbup:
 
I'm in poor humor today, so forgive me if I'm a little short, but I still here sizzle and STILL SEE NO STEAK! I was told I'd be given some grand revelation about how "other Companies" are just as easy to pick on from moral/character standpoints as CS. Again PUT UP OR SHUT UP !!!!!

As for the CS/Strider thing, you honestly believe he's gonna tell someone he was in on that? May I remind you that the Presidend of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA "did not have sexual relations with that woman" - up until the day he admitted he did. He didn't even tell his wife. You think Lynn is gonna fess up to that kinda stuff??? Give me a freaking break!!!

-Anthony
 
I got this in a private message from Mike Stewart some time back. Notice what I put in bold type below. STR

I noticed that you and a number of folks have been guessing what Carbon V steel is.

I have posted this before but it appears that a lot of folks have not seeen it.

CV--Chorme Vanadium Steel and Carbon V are all the very same steel.

This is not a mistery steel. It is not a new steel. It had been made by the hundreds of tons For many many ywears and used by ALL the major Knife Companies for Decades.

It is 0170-6 cutlery Steel...It was developed in the 1950's by sharon Steel specifically for Knives.

It is an enhanced 1095. They added Nickel--Chromium and a trace of Vanadium. it was a patented steel of Sharon.

Everybody used it. it was called by cute names by some companies --Chrome-Vanadium by others.

This was the original Steel chosen by both Lynn Thomson for his Trailmaster and me for the Old Mamba. We all used it until 1988.

sharon Steel went Bankrupt in 1988. None of us could get it and no other mill would duplicate it because the papent was still in effect.

We all switched to other steels.

A couple of years ago Case and Camillus Found a mill that would duplicate the Chemistry and they ordered a heat lot--+/_ 100,000 lbs.

Case had thier portion of the heat lot rolled to pocket knife sizes and Camillius had thier portion rolled to use for Lynn on his U.S. made knives and the Becker line.
This was a common steel and will out perform 1095. I have used it in a lot of the early Blackjacks. I still have some and made our goloks and Northwind Swords from it.

I have no idea why this question keeps comming up. All of this is common knowledge in the industry.

I suspect that nobody will be using it except for Case, Cammilius, Becker, Westerm and Cold Steel.

As I'm sure you know that Case makes thier knives and Camillius makes all of the other brands that I just mentioned.

I doubt that you will have any better luck relaying this info either. It dosen't seem that folks want the truth.

It's more fun for folks to speculate
 
STR said:
I got this in a private message from Mike Stewart some time back. Notice what I put in bolt type below. STR

I noticed that you and a number of folks have been guessing what Carbon V steel is.

I have posted this before but it appears that a lot of folks have not seeen it.

CV--Chorme Vanadium Steel and Carbon V are all the very same steel.

This is not a mistery steel. It is not a new steel. It had been made by the hundreds of tons For many many ywears and used by ALL the major Knife Companies for Decades.

It is 0170-6 cutlery Steel...It was developed in the 1950's by sharon Steel specifically for Knives.

It is an enhanced 1095. They added Nickel--Chromium and a trace of Vanadium. it was a patented steel of Sharon.

Everybody used it. it was called by cute names by some companies --Chrome-Vanadium by others.

This was the original Steel chosen by both Lynn Thomson for his Trailmaster and me for the Old Mamba. We all used it until 1988.

sharon Steel went Bankrupt in 1988. None of us could get it and no other mill would duplicate it because the papent was still in effect.

We all switched to other steels.

A couple of years ago Case and Camillus Found a mill that would duplicate the Chemistry and they ordered a heat lot--+/_ 100,000 lbs.

Case had thier portion of the heat lot rolled to pocket knife sizes and Camillius had thier portion rolled to use for Lynn on his U.S. made knives and the Becker line.
This was a common steel and will out perform 1095. I have used it in a lot of the early Blackjacks. I still have some and made our goloks and Northwind Swords from it.

I have no idea why this question keeps comming up. All of this is common knowledge in the industry.

I suspect that nobody will be using it except for Case, Cammilius, Becker, Westerm and Cold Steel.

As I'm sure you know that Case makes thier knives and Camillius makes all of the other brands that I just mentioned.

I doubt that you will have any better luck relaying this info either. It dosen't seem that folks want the truth.

It's more fun for folks to speculate
Click to expand...

Didn't I say it was 0170 on another thread where some other poster contradicted me???

Mike Stewart knows his stuff.:thumbup:
 
Didn't I say it was 0170 on another thread where some other poster contradicted me???
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Yes you did. I wanted to post it back then but truthfully in my infinite wisdom and with all my wonderful organizational skills it took me that long to find it. :D
 
most of fans like cold steel in china .some of them frist knife is coldsteel ,srk
13rk 16cb , i have been owned first kinfe :ultimate hunter cost 700 yuan
 
This was spark tested years ago and found to be 50100-B, 0170-6 is just the company name, it is a well respected knife steel by fairly high up makers. It was also found to be the same thing as the CV steel case uses. This was brought up on rec.knives and earlier still on a mailing list populated with a bunch of makers. The problem is does this mean all the knives are made out of this or does Carbon V and CV just mean what ever steels they want to use? As well does everyone use the same heat treatement and QC controls.

-Cliff
 
Ok, so what is SOGs SK5 steel can anyone answer that one?? What mystery do we have there?
 
Does anyone have a link to the Cold Steel/Strider thing? Or at the least give the short version. I'm clueless on that one.
 
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