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I sold a knife with pictures in the thread of lockup and buyer wants a refund.
- Thread starter Greek_God
- Start date
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^This.
It's always been an unwritten rule here that if the buyer isn't happy with the knife give a refund. Rarely does anyone ask for a refund, but when they do we issue one.
I've been gone for almost a year, so things may have changed. I sure hope not, but if they have changed, a seller that won't issue a refund needs to put "no refunds" in the sales thread. I haven't seen the add, so I'm not really sure if it had "no refunds" in it.
I may not like it, but would give a refund myself. No real harm done, and you got the knife back right away. Sell it again. She didn't cause it to lose value at all.
I personally think this Jenna Lee character should be banned. Where is the protection for profit loss for the seller? From the details of this situation, it's clear that Jenna found one of these knives cheaper elsewhere and just wants her money back so she can save herself some money and go buy that other one. That's taking money from the seller's hands, which is (let's not forget) rightfully his. His item was as described, a deal was made, money and knife changed hands. If this guy sold his knife for $2,100 and now can only sell it for say, $1,600, then Jenna has caused this guy an issue, I don't care how you try to slice it. If I'm suddenly out $500, that's going to be an issue for me, and sorry but "A deal isn't done until both sides are happy!" seems like cotton candy pie in the sky to me, because this exact situation is showing how actually, what this means is "The deal isn't right unless the BUYER is happy." What? If I wanted to get shafted by unscrupulous buyers, I would sell more on Ebay instead of here. Where's the logic here? Where is the protection for the seller? Jenna is a tirekicker who should be banned, and the fact that she's female is irrelevant.
no he isn't....... He is bringing up an extremely valid point. How would you feel if you sold a perfectly good NIB knife to someone only for them to complain in order to get money back due to buyers remorse, and lied to further their agenda on top of it all?. We are taught that when you make a deal with someone that you honor it, unless the other party didn't completely follow through. The seller did all that was needed and requested of him. Retailers now days have something called restocking fees... no one likes them, but they are necessary to keep tire kickers from trying out 15 knives before settling on one.
The lesson here is for BUYERS.........
do your research
make sure it's what you want
If you receive the knife and its as described but your not happy with it.... It is up to YOU to turn around and sell it. Not create a reason that its "damaged" so you can get your money back.
I personally hope that paypal sides with the Seller on this one. I too would be upset if this happened to me, and the only way I would accept giving out a refund is if the knife wasn't as described, and at that point I would happily give the refund and own up to a mistake. None were made here on the Sellers side
I would still wait for Paypal's decision and if they rule in her favor do the refund, if not then I'd use her MO money to send HER KNIFE back and let her deal with the shortfalls SHE CAUSED on a physically correct knife. And, like Quiet said, then I'd ban her for underhanded dealings. We don't need her..
I agree, hopefully Paypal will see the actual situation going on here and do the right thing. THEN the mods can send Jenna packing. She can take her silly "Well, 68% of this is actually 54% of this OTHER number, so what you do is you add 16, carry the 12, subtract the detent ball and voila, give me my money back!" act elsewhere.
ncrockclimb
Gold Member
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- Nov 20, 2014
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No! Let PayPal decide.
This is simple. Jenna purchased the knife. The knife was as described. Period. No question about this. NONE. Even the manufacturer confirms that this is knife is not defective. THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR HER TO RETURN THE KNIFE, other than she changed her mind. Changing one's mind is not a justification for a return. The knife is now Jenna's and there is no justification for her to return it. By returning the item to Greek God, she is costing him money and time. These are the facts, and nothing else that has been said by Jenna is germane to this situation. Jenna owns the knife and the money is now Greek God's.
With all that in mind, there is NO REASON for Greek God to send his money to Jenna. IMO, Greek God should wait for PayPal to rule on this. If PayPal rule in his favor, Greek God should put Jenna's knife a small USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate box with tracking and signature required (cost less than $10), and be done with this. If PayPal rules in the buyer's favor, at least Greek God has the knife.
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- Aug 21, 2014
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BIG BINGO !!!
I'm new to all of this... Don't own more than 2 knives, but when I first read the OP, I said to myself "easiest thing is to refund the money and just move on"... I on so MANY occasions have bought something, carried it under my arm into the house and put it down somewhere where I had no choice but to look at it again... And MANY times I said to myself, "why in the world did I buy that, I wish I hadn't".... This happens often... And I would call anyone a liar if they said such re-evaluation of a purchase has never happened to them....
Remorse over the knife purchase, maybe.... Just unhappy with the item's appearance and or quality (given the high price these knives demand), maybe.... Unhappy with the item because of the "lock-up" is late, possibly (she claims so, I have no reason to not believe her).....
What it comes down to is she's not happy with the item and she did send a significant amount of money forward, as proof she not just a "tire kicker".... As a gentleman in a transaction like this (be it a man, woman or child purchasing), I would have had the money sent back the moment the knife arrived (in the same condition it was when I sent it)... That is a win win situation as you handled the transaction knowing what it's like to have a change of heart and knowing that at some point it could be sold again at any time... No one gets screwed, everyone has their own belongings once again (be it cash or the item) everyone is HAPPY (or should be)...
I certainly, in an instance like this, would not have let this thread proliferate into direct name calling and direct attacks on the purchaser... This thread was to feel out opinions... It was not meant for those overzealous to address her personally and directly.... This really has got out of hand...
I'm a newbe, this may even be my first post, I'm likely "ignored" by many in a few moments... Oh well, I'm not buying knives here anyway....... I would have handled it like a gentleman.... Eric.
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welcome back Ken44, one of the true knowledgeable members in GBU, I have followed his advise for almost 2 years and he is NEVER wrong. But, that being said, it still sucks and I agree with this ,
Simply because unlike ALL other times when Ken44 was 100% correct, and he still is, but sad to say it. We are talking about a value on a knife, that reputation and background story make up at least 25% of the value of the knife. According to MANY members on this site, THIS KNIFE IS NO LONGER NEW !! Just as Ken44 says, and I agree the past conversations on this site say that when a knife has been passed around, the next buyer will be the 4th person to have the knife, It is NOT NEW.
by Brancron, I find this very strange as this member is not in any position to lose anything, so it's easy to tell others what to do. Sounds like you're saying, "Grow Up". What may not be a big deal to you, may be the world to someone else. And anyone who thinks Gender has any issue in this case is totally fouled. Remember this is the internet. She may be a he, and he may be a dealer, who lost a sale on the other end or any situation. Remember, "SHE" stated the knife should have 100% lockup. No knife has 100%.. Many of us own CRK's and several of mine are at best 40%. But they work, that is all that matters.
Ken44 I am glad you are back, you ALWAYS provide sound advise and are correct in your professional dealings, and to you Quite, thanks for always showing your love for knives by expressing emotion and protecting the members of this site. The GBU would be very dull and often lacking facts, without the both of you.
Guys, it is in paypals hands. He should not do anything. Paypal will take care of it or tell him what to do.
I think Brancron and Ken44 should consider what they are proposing a bit more. We all know what the easiest solution is. But the easiest solution also sets the tone for others to follow in jennalees footsteps. We take pictures and offer descriptions for a reason. And buyers have every opportunity to ask any and all questions pertaining to a purchase before making it. And its also mentioning that everyone has different circumstances. Some are in the position to be able to accept returns and wait things out. Others have less disposable income and really every decision hinges on the previous one. And as someone who needs to sell something old if I wish to purchase something new I understand how stressful this can be for someone living day to day. Some might say "quit living beyond your means" Its an easy thing to say if not in that position.
Either way we should not encourage rewarding behavior that puts our members in compromising situations. Especialy if that behavior has no real justification as in this case. Had this been a situation that the OP had misrepresented something, was being dishonest or just made an honest mistake this whole debacle wouldnt even be being discussed. This is a case where a buyer failed their own self and is asking for someone else to bear the weight of that mistake. I have never seen or heard of an unwritten rule here that the buyer has infinite control and if they are not satisfied that they get their money back. But even if it was most members here wouldnt even ask for a refund unless there was due cause. Ken44 and brancron you both strike me as people that would own their mistakes. I personally feel JennaLee needs to own hers.
Either way we should not encourage rewarding behavior that puts our members in compromising situations. Especialy if that behavior has no real justification as in this case. Had this been a situation that the OP had misrepresented something, was being dishonest or just made an honest mistake this whole debacle wouldnt even be being discussed. This is a case where a buyer failed their own self and is asking for someone else to bear the weight of that mistake. I have never seen or heard of an unwritten rule here that the buyer has infinite control and if they are not satisfied that they get their money back. But even if it was most members here wouldnt even ask for a refund unless there was due cause. Ken44 and brancron you both strike me as people that would own their mistakes. I personally feel JennaLee needs to own hers.
That's because normally, there's a situation where the culprit is clear cut, and often it's the seller with the situation being goods on sale being poorly described purposely with the intent of misleading the buyer. This time, it's clearly the buyer who's being shady. I can't speak for anyone else, but I CAN tell you that this situation isn't as simple as "Eh, issue a refund, no harm done." If the knife that was sold has taken a large depreciation due to the wind changing direction on the secondary market after the sale was concluded, then guess what? The seller is going to have to eat that depreciation, which in my opinion is unfair, and most definitely IS harm done. You may disagree, as is your right, but let's not try to paint this as GG needing to be a "gentleman". He's handling this like a businessman. And a businessman doesn't just roll over when the other party to a solid, fairly done deal is being shady. Sorry.
No, it is not my opinion. It is a claim process handled through paypal now. Paypal would advise to doing nothing at this point because they are in the middle of a claim.
Maybe in the beginning of this mess he should have just done a refund. In fact, if you read the whole thread you would see that I stated that is exactly what I would have done to avoid what has now become a mess. So yes, I understand that "We normally can get things worked out without having to let PP decide". But we are well passed that point. He has taken a stand against this tirekicker. No reason to give up now.
I thought the claim could be dropped at any time if all was worked out by seller/buyer, and both told PP that. Then again PP has a lot of rules, and that may be one I've overlooked. I've never had to fool with a claim.
Yes, I had read the whole thread, but can't remember who all had said what. I guess we would've been in agreement had I come along a few days ago,lol.
You are right, he's taken his stand... and so has she. Nothing else we can do(other than turn this into a whine and cheese type thread
), and no reason for us to keep posting since both have taken their stand(IMO).Since it's totally out of our hands now maybe this one needs to be locked until PP makes their decision.
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I thought the claim could be dropped at any time if all was worked out by seller/buyer, and both told PP that. Then again PP has a lot of rules, and that may be one I've overlooked. I've never had to fool with a claim.
Yes, I had read the whole thread, but can't remember who all had said what. I guess we would've been in agreement had I come along a few days ago,lol.
You are right, he's taken his stand... and so has she. Nothing else we can do(other than turn this into a whine and cheese type thread
Since it's totally out of our hands now maybe this one needs to be locked until PP makes their decision.
You sir, are correct! :thumbup:
And I agree with the last part in red, also
. Just from your first few statements on this matter..... I can see why your so highly respected. You seem like a true gentleman who carries himself accordingly.
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