I sold a knife with pictures in the thread of lockup and buyer wants a refund.

Status
Not open for further replies.
I just got confirmation by a great gentleman over at Microtech. Mr Greenberg said "there is absolutely nothing wrong with that knife" and "Personally speaking it actually looks perfect to me"

The email was regarding the lockup and I sent the attached picture the buyer posted on page 3.
 
perig said:
That just precious coming from you, craytab. You never disappoint. :D:D:D
Click to expand...

Honestly man, considering the tone of your first post in this thread, I am not even sure why you're still here?!

Just so this doesn't slip by you, the GBU should be mandatory for every new member. (I am glad you're here, you might learn something)

You learn more about people here then anywhere else on this forum, and if you plan to buy/sell/trade on this site, spending a lot of time here can save you time/money/headaches.

It's not just the problems you learn about, but the opinions expressed here over a period of time by many members who post. It speaks volumes, good or bad......kinda like your contribution was an excellent example of who you are at this point.......

A lot of good has been done to help people either directly or indirectly, and those of us who participate regularly here have learned a lot.
 
Lone_Wolfe said:
And a few ruin it for the good ones. We were all noobs with no feedback for at least one transaction, and most of us did it right. But stuff like this makes people reluctant to trust someone that just wants to buy a knife for real.
Click to expand...

Yup. Like I said before. When I was new I would never have made stink about such a none issue just because I wanted to be a part of this community and great hobby. I also contributed meaningfully in other places than buying before my first purchase. And I sure didn't come into the GB&U and jump into threads to complain about other well established members.

Greek_God said:
I just got confirmation by a great gentleman over at Microtech. Mr Greenberg said "there is absolutely nothing wrong with that knife" and "Personally speaking it actually looks perfect to me"

The email was regarding the lockup and I sent the attached picture the buyer posted on page 3.
Click to expand...

Good work man! Now get that to paypal on the double!
 
This thread has definitely diverged from merely the original exchange into a discussion about online buying and selling.

Unfortunately the wider spread and bigger the community the more attractive it is to rip off artists. You can pile in all the safeguards and Paypal protection but at the end of the day you're trusting a virtual stranger's handshake.

The risk is finding someone who doesn't value their handshake as highly as you value yours. Then they simply feel they've got nothing to loose by reneging or robbing the other party.
 
perig said:
Ah yes, I've tainted myself just by dipping my toe and brandishing myself as a "participant" in these devilish deeds. How foolish of me to have fallen into this trap.

I would have thought 4 or 5 pages of stripping this carcass bare would have finished her, but I guess if the vultures are still hopping around the bones there must be some flesh left to strip. Or am I the next meal?
Click to expand...

No. I was merely pointing out that you are complaining about everyone participating in this thread and how they do so, yet you yourself are a participant. The only real difference is you have chosen to pick a beef with everyone instead of just the one person who actually inspired this thread to be created. I found it a bit hypocritical and I simply feel that despite how you feel about some of the comments made in this thread I would have to say you have contributed the least to the discussion. And I agree with Craytab that whine and cheese is a better place for that kind of nonsense.
 
Hoping for a swift resolve

Another few added to my GROWING IGNORE LIST..
Sad ..But to protect myself and others-And to look out for one another
Is the key to keeping BF safe.

I agree with so many people..Both NEWBIES and seasoned VETS..
So many trusted and loyal people in this place..It amazes me..
It is so very very discouraging to see a few folks
play the judge and jury on certain situations. ((Not that I have not
DONE that myself in here as well--GUILTY))

:thumbup:We are a outstanding community..We try to have each others backs..:thumbup:
The folks in here I have come to call ""MY FRIENDS""
Stick with the winners...
Ignore the folks that seem to want nothing but too make
things worse...
 
JennaLee said:
pictures are good but holding it is better
my interpretation of "lockup"
The difference is small but the lockup measured in this way is 12% larger in my picture (68%) than Demetri's (56%). In my picture, the detent ball can be seen and uses up 0.21" of the available travel making the lockup 86%.

This is what I based my decision on and it required holding, looking, and taking a picture.
thx
jenna

View attachment 554908
Click to expand...

JennaLee

I sincerely hope and believe that paypal will side with the OP and that future sellers and buyers will read this thread about you before doing any business with you.

I can whip out my Strider SMF frame lock right now and manipulate the lockup anywhere from say 10 to 50% for a photo op, it is not hard to do at all. And as has been stated before, lockup will often sit in one place if the knife is opened gently vs. flipped open or squeezed closed. This is even more so for a brand new frame lock that isn't broken in yet, it will sit early when gently opened, or can easily be pushed in further. Either way, both lockups you pictured are perfectly acceptable by all standards this is a total NON-ISSUE.

Your argument for return is absolute BS and you are lying to paypal. If you think the value of a knife is measured by a perceived, or faked, 12% difference in lockup you know nothing.
 
First post by me on this thread ... yes, I've read everything so far. :)

It is customary when making any sort of online purchases, usually electronica, that a restocking fee applies in the event a buyer changes his mind without a serious product-related reason. The restocking fee varies by seller, but is customarily 15-20% of the purchase price. Product must be in original condition. No returns will be accepted without an RMA, a Return Materials Authorization, provided to the buyer by the seller. In addition, shipping fees for the return are the responsibility of the buyer, although sometimes the seller may optionally agree to absorb them if the product is truly defective.

Rather than ask each seller here to laboriously spell out the individual details of what he's willing to go through, all bladeforum sales ought to reference a standardized policy established with a "sticky" in each selling forum regarding returns.
 
I agree with that stocking fee also as I posted it to.we are adults and if she was upfront with her intentions there would be no problem.even in her post she stated she wanted to hold it first.cmon jenn lets hear back from you.I also think these threads are great to dissway other cons by showing how we will react and take action.
 
First, I am not angry with anyone, including Greek_God.
I'm not sure everyone here can say that?

There is more than one issue in this thread but this seems to be the crux...

What if the seller uses words such as: 'brand new', but fails to mention undesirable 'details'?
Seller takes a picture, but, if the buyer can't see, doesn't notice, or optimistically interprets the picture so much the better for the seller.
What is the responsibility of the seller to disclose undesirable 'details'?
When the unwitting buyer discovers the 'detail', what then?

Would this thread be here if the seller freely volunteered the lockbar has 15% of its travel remaining?
Everyone has their own opinion on lockup, fine, 15% travel remaining is not acceptable for me and I'm the one with $2100 plus $66 shipping out there.
Greek_God’s listing was a bit of a white lie, not fully honest.

The message expressed here by others, however, is loud and clear: sellers are free to use trickery and deception and unwitting buyers are criticized.

I have paid for shipping both ways and the item is returned in perfect condition on the next business day. The seller was informed shortly after item was received. It was out of the box for minutes.

thx
jenna
 
If the seller used the term "brand new" then I am going to assume that it is, in fact, brand new unless I find scratches on the finish, pocket clip, etc to indicate that
it has been carried or used. If you are such a stickler for lock closing percentage you're telling us that you didn't notice, or optimistically interpreted it to be better
than it was? Yet you used his same picture in your so called evidence for returning it?

I see no "undesirable details" that would have been needed to be disclosed if the knife was, in fact, brand new and a picture of the lockup was given. I have seen no one
but you use some photo shopping method to determine a difference of an exact 12% in lockup difference between two differently scaled photos taken by two different people.

I just read the listing, there was no "white lie" or any other type of lie told. He did not say "lockup is at 15% or 20%" he showed a picture of the lockup as is commonly done
and lets the buyer make the decision. The only "trickery and deception" I see here is what you are pulling as far as your claim that you can determine a 12% lockup change
precisely, and the lying that you have done to paypal as your reason to return the knife. All the while, both lockups in your picture are widely considered to be acceptable. Once more, if you were to use the knife for a lot of years and the lockbar could actually travel to the other side and actually become unacceptable it is a replaceable part. NON-ISSUE

Buyer's remorse can suck, but learn to take the hit like the rest of us. Put it up for sale yourself and lesson learned. It isn't right that you construct some lie to force the knife back onto the seller because you wanted to play with his knife and alleviate all of your guilt by paying for shipping as you should at a minimum. He now has to spend the same amount of work as with you to resell the knife (haggling, communication, packaging, travel, standing in line at fedex etc.) on top of dealing with your created drama.

Adding you to my ignore list
 
I am sorry that this is occurring.

I just want to say that there was honestly no lying going on when I made the sale post.

Now that this is being decided on by Paypal. I would like to tell you that if the decision is in favor I will send back the knife as well as the Money Order + fees you spent for the money order. I am not sure if you have shipped back the knife though. It sounds like you have but I have not received a tracking number so I am not sure. If the decision is in your favor you will receive your refund immediately and I will be keeping the knife as it seems it will be very difficult to sell again.

And to receive more clarification on the lock up. I have emailed Microtech as to why there can be a difference from when I had it and to when you received it.

Additionally, the knife was brand new. It was a catch and release that I decided on as it was in transit to me due to expenses.

This thread was originally created to help me decide and to get insight on what to do with this situation as it it the first time occurring for me. Since then it has expanded a bit.


JennaLee said:
First, I am not angry with anyone, including Greek_God.
I'm not sure everyone here can say that?

There is more than one issue in this thread but this seems to be the crux...

What if the seller uses words such as: 'brand new', but fails to mention undesirable 'details'?
Seller takes a picture, but, if the buyer can't see, doesn't notice, or optimistically interprets the picture so much the better for the seller.
What is the responsibility of the seller to disclose undesirable 'details'?
When the unwitting buyer discovers the 'detail', what then?

Would this thread be here if the seller freely volunteered the lockbar has 15% of its travel remaining?
Everyone has their own opinion on lockup, fine, 15% travel remaining is not acceptable for me and I'm the one with $2100 plus $66 shipping out there.
Greek_God’s listing was a bit of a white lie, not fully honest.

The message expressed here by others, however, is loud and clear: sellers are free to use trickery and deception and unwitting buyers are criticized.

I have paid for shipping both ways and the item is returned in perfect condition on the next business day. The seller was informed shortly after item was received. It was out of the box for minutes.

thx
jenna
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
JennaLee said:
First, I am not angry with anyone, including Greek_God.
I'm not sure everyone here can say that?

There is more than one issue in this thread but this seems to be the crux...

What if the seller uses words such as: 'brand new', but fails to mention undesirable 'details'?
Seller takes a picture, but, if the buyer can't see, doesn't notice, or optimistically interprets the picture so much the better for the seller.
What is the responsibility of the seller to disclose undesirable 'details'?
When the unwitting buyer discovers the 'detail', what then?

Would this thread be here if the seller freely volunteered the lockbar has 15% of its travel remaining?
Everyone has their own opinion on lockup, fine, 15% travel remaining is not acceptable for me and I'm the one with $2100 plus $66 shipping out there.
Greek_God’s listing was a bit of a white lie, not fully honest.

The message expressed here by others, however, is loud and clear: sellers are free to use trickery and deception and unwitting buyers are criticized.

I have paid for shipping both ways and the item is returned in perfect condition on the next business day. The seller was informed shortly after item was received. It was out of the box for minutes.

thx
jenna
Click to expand...

Im sorry but I dont agree with you and I dont feel many WILL agree with you. It comes down to one simple fact YOU Should have researched more before dropping that much money. That is the bottom line. When you commit to a sale and send funds you are saying that the information provided to you was good enough for you to make the purchase. You saw pictures, conversed with the OP and said "good enough for me to roll the dice" And you rolled them. If you have concerns about not seeing certain angles in pics or this that or the other thing you address them before you spend your money. I think the issue here really is you are looking at it like you bought a knife from a store front with a relaxed return policy. You didnt. You bought from a private seller. Private sales have no guarantees. And if you are particular about certain aspects of your purchases then its your responsibility to get it sorted before you commit whether it means you lose it to another buyer or not. Ive said it a million times and it applies here perfectly and that is ignorance does not excuse negligence.
 
Last edited:
Sorry Jennalee, the crux of your position is sheer nonsense. What if? What if? There was no what if? There was no deception by the seller. Knife was new and you had a plain as day picture of the lock-up. The premise for you sending it back was false. Even Microtech said there was no issue with the lock-up. Despite that and you seeing clear pics, you say it is faulty. You are wrong. You are weasling out of a deal - for no good reason; making up a story about lockup issues/travel. Then you lie to paypal about it being defective. You wasted the seller's time, messed up his sale, brought all kinds of stress and drama to his life. Why, because you just decided it wasn't for you....no good reason. Buyer's remorse is just that - it's on the buyer. This is not a dept store. Buyers like you are not needed around here, they just taint the water.
 
JennaLee said:
First, I am not angry with anyone, including Greek_God.
I'm not sure everyone here can say that?

There is more than one issue in this thread but this seems to be the crux...

What if the seller uses words such as: 'brand new', but fails to mention undesirable 'details'?
Seller takes a picture, but, if the buyer can't see, doesn't notice, or optimistically interprets the picture so much the better for the seller.
What is the responsibility of the seller to disclose undesirable 'details'?
When the unwitting buyer discovers the 'detail', what then?

Would this thread be here if the seller freely volunteered the lockbar has 15% of its travel remaining?
Everyone has their own opinion on lockup, fine, 15% travel remaining is not acceptable for me and I'm the one with $2100 plus $66 shipping out there.
Greek_God’s listing was a bit of a white lie, not fully honest.

The message expressed here by others, however, is loud and clear: sellers are free to use trickery and deception and unwitting buyers are criticized.

I have paid for shipping both ways and the item is returned in perfect condition on the next business day. The seller was informed shortly after item was received. It was out of the box for minutes.

thx
jenna
Click to expand...

A really wonderful collection of "what if" scenario's, but what exactly does any of that have to do with this thread?

Edit: Nevermind, an answer to that question isn't going to do anything that will make much sense anyway.....

How much longer until PP figures this one out? Seems like it's moving very slowly.....
 
JennaLee said:
First, I am not angry with anyone, including Greek_God.
I'm not sure everyone here can say that?

There is more than one issue in this thread but this seems to be the crux...

What if the seller uses words such as: 'brand new', but fails to mention undesirable 'details'?
Seller takes a picture, but, if the buyer can't see, doesn't notice, or optimistically interprets the picture so much the better for the seller.
What is the responsibility of the seller to disclose undesirable 'details'?
When the unwitting buyer discovers the 'detail', what then?

Would this thread be here if the seller freely volunteered the lockbar has 15% of its travel remaining?
Everyone has their own opinion on lockup, fine, 15% travel remaining is not acceptable for me and I'm the one with $2100 plus $66 shipping out there.
Greek_God’s listing was a bit of a white lie, not fully honest.

The message expressed here by others, however, is loud and clear: sellers are free to use trickery and deception and unwitting buyers are criticized.

I have paid for shipping both ways and the item is returned in perfect condition on the next business day. The seller was informed shortly after item was received. It was out of the box for minutes.

thx
jenna
Click to expand...

Not even the maker finds issue with a lockup such as that, and a correct steel on steel lockup is not something that is going to wear noticeably within your lifetime. That knife is brand new. It came from the factory with no issues, and it was not used, marked, or worn in at all. He showed you a picture of the lockup after he opened it (while everyone has different technique/speed that slightly change the lockup) and it was good enough for you to decide that you wanted to play with the knife. It was not a lie, he did not mean to misguide you, and it's something most knife collectors would not see a fault in.

Also, why is this late steel-on-steel lockup an issue for you? It won't wear, and it seems plenty strong from what I've seen.
 
For you guys who think/thought this might be a one shot occurrence with Jenna lee, her posts speak volumes about the future risks one will be exposed to dealing with her.

She's a tire kicker who thinks her BS claim of defective goods is all that's required to weasel out of a deal.

The experts have stated the knife and it's lock-up are fine, yet she says no. Even with the super hard use I am certain Jenna Lee had planned for this $2100 knife she would have never had an issue with lock-up.

And not so says me but so says Microtech.

Tire kickers and window lickers...............................I am going to write a song!!!
 
Last edited:
Jenna Lee,

The MFG says the knife is within factory specs and looks great.

You may not agree but you are not the expert on these knives the MFG is.

You are wrong and if you do not see that then you need to contact the MFG and set them straight on how their knives should be.

You bought this knife, it is yours.

It is a lie that the lock up is not within factory specs and for you to make the claim this claim still after being shown the the MFG response means the truth is not what is important?

Do what is right and cancel your claim, get your knife and do what you want with it.
 
JR88FAN said:
A really wonderful collection of "what if" scenario's, but what exactly does any of that have to do with this thread?

Edit: Nevermind, an answer to that question isn't going to do anything that will make much sense anyway.....

How much longer until PP figures this one out? Seems like it's moving very slowly.....
Click to expand...

I think it is also worth mentioning that she is blaming his lack of details. The same details every single of her for sale threads lack. As an outsider looking in that looks too much like someone who knew exactly what she was doing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top