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I sold a knife with pictures in the thread of lockup and buyer wants a refund.
- Thread starter Greek_God
- Start date
- Status
I just messaged the buyer and I have been keeping my posts neutral as gender does not matter here everyone should get the same treatment. To summarize my message I do not think a refund should be needed as it looks like the buyer was expecting the knife to be something greater or "buyers remorse". If I was a dealer this may be different but I am only an individual. I offered my assistance to the buyer if they would need help selling the knife. Like reposting a sale post on Instagram. And also paying for her shipping charges to a new buyer.
The number 1 reason why I don't think a refund is necessary due to the waste of time and resources. If buyer gets refunded they have to pay $40 that I spent shipping then shipping charges on top of that to get the knife back to me then I have to spend more money to ship to a new buyer. The time for the knife to get to me then for me to find a new seller could take weeks. Then I have a vacation for the rest of the Summer next month which is why I have been selling part of my collection early.
If the buyer wished to submit negative feedback for this then so be it. I will not be submitting any feedback. I will just work harder to gain my reputation back.
For the value of the knife I do not feel like playing any games and having it getting shipped from one part of the country to another.
To the buyer:
I am sorry if you do not agree with this but it seems like the knife was defective at all from your PM's. There is nothing wrong with late lock up and the whole early lock up thing is being overplayed. Many makers such as Chris Reeve have nothing against late lockups.
I must also add that if you really wanted the knife you can contact Microtech and they will be able to fix the knife since you were not satisfied how it came. And with this I will gladly help pay shipping costs.
Please excuse and grammatical errors it is 3:30 AM and I am rather tired.
The number 1 reason why I don't think a refund is necessary due to the waste of time and resources. If buyer gets refunded they have to pay $40 that I spent shipping then shipping charges on top of that to get the knife back to me then I have to spend more money to ship to a new buyer. The time for the knife to get to me then for me to find a new seller could take weeks. Then I have a vacation for the rest of the Summer next month which is why I have been selling part of my collection early.
If the buyer wished to submit negative feedback for this then so be it. I will not be submitting any feedback. I will just work harder to gain my reputation back.
For the value of the knife I do not feel like playing any games and having it getting shipped from one part of the country to another.
To the buyer:
I am sorry if you do not agree with this but it seems like the knife was defective at all from your PM's. There is nothing wrong with late lock up and the whole early lock up thing is being overplayed. Many makers such as Chris Reeve have nothing against late lockups.
I must also add that if you really wanted the knife you can contact Microtech and they will be able to fix the knife since you were not satisfied how it came. And with this I will gladly help pay shipping costs.
Please excuse and grammatical errors it is 3:30 AM and I am rather tired.
Leftytwogunz
Gold Member
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2013
- Messages
- 2,315
I had a similar situation once.
A guy bought a knife, and before it even arrived he said that he was going to be returning it because something else came up and he
wanted to spend the money elsewhere. Frustrated by my wasted time and expense I actually contacted paypal about this. I don't remember
if it was by phone or email, but the lady said that they do not cover "buyer's remorse". If you look in your paypal account there is a section
under seller protection or something like that. There are very specific reasons that they will side with the buyer and one is
"item significantly not as described"
If the item was as described then paypal will likely side with you during the dispute. I would go ahead and begin the process of getting in contact
with someone there.
found this on the net:
Examples of transactions covered by Purchase Protection:
You bought a book, but received a DVD
You bought an item described as new, but received something that was used
You purchased 3 items, but only received 2
The item was damaged during shipping
The item is missing major parts (that the seller didnt report)
You purchased an item described as authentic, but received a knockoff instead
Examples of transactions not covered:
Real estate
Motorized vehicles
Custom-made goods that arent received
Travel tickets
Industrial machinery
Prepaid cards
Items that violate our policies
Anything bought in person (not over the internet)
Send Money transactions to friends or family
Disputes filed more than 180 days after the purchase for item not received and significantly not as described claims
Unauthorized transaction claims reported more than 60 days after the transaction date of the transaction
Items that were described accurately by the seller
best of luck
A guy bought a knife, and before it even arrived he said that he was going to be returning it because something else came up and he
wanted to spend the money elsewhere. Frustrated by my wasted time and expense I actually contacted paypal about this. I don't remember
if it was by phone or email, but the lady said that they do not cover "buyer's remorse". If you look in your paypal account there is a section
under seller protection or something like that. There are very specific reasons that they will side with the buyer and one is
"item significantly not as described"
If the item was as described then paypal will likely side with you during the dispute. I would go ahead and begin the process of getting in contact
with someone there.
found this on the net:
Examples of transactions covered by Purchase Protection:
You bought a book, but received a DVD
You bought an item described as new, but received something that was used
You purchased 3 items, but only received 2
The item was damaged during shipping
The item is missing major parts (that the seller didnt report)
You purchased an item described as authentic, but received a knockoff instead
Examples of transactions not covered:
Real estate
Motorized vehicles
Custom-made goods that arent received
Travel tickets
Industrial machinery
Prepaid cards
Items that violate our policies
Anything bought in person (not over the internet)
Send Money transactions to friends or family
Disputes filed more than 180 days after the purchase for item not received and significantly not as described claims
Unauthorized transaction claims reported more than 60 days after the transaction date of the transaction
Items that were described accurately by the seller
best of luck
Good for you OP . I would do the same. You held you end and you are not a retail store.
To the buyer I would say go to a show or two if you want to see and hold certain knives to see if they fit you . The lock up is perfectly fine. I would rather have a nice solid lock up like that anyway . I hate a knife that is sitting on the edge of unlocking on my fingers !!
Time to man up.
To the buyer I would say go to a show or two if you want to see and hold certain knives to see if they fit you . The lock up is perfectly fine. I would rather have a nice solid lock up like that anyway . I hate a knife that is sitting on the edge of unlocking on my fingers !!
Time to man up.
Hey, thanks for all the information in your post.
My knife was literally a catch and release. Received the knife and listed it that same day since I did not want my parents to pay for my vacation.
I checked if the knife worked flawlessly. No lock stick, no play, flipped well. Was in perfect condition when I sent it. The only thing I change was moved the dagger to the front of the pouch so the buyer doesn't think it is missing which happened to me since Microtech puts it inside the pouch.
From the buyers reply to me they said that the knife was basically not up to par or what the "expected". To me that sounds like buyers remorse.
Thanks once again. If buyer is willing to dispute this with Paypal I will have no problem.
QUOTE=Leftytwogunz;14907519]I had a similar situation once.
A guy bought a knife, and before it even arrived he said that he was going to be returning it because something else came up and he
wanted to spend the money elsewhere. Frustrated by my wasted time and expense I actually contacted paypal about this. I don't remember
if it was by phone or email, but the lady said that they do not cover "buyer's remorse". If you look in your paypal account there is a section
under seller protection or something like that. There are very specific reasons that they will side with the buyer and one is
"item significantly not as described"
If the item was as described then paypal will likely side with you during the dispute. I would go ahead and begin the process of getting in contact
with someone there.
best of luck[/QUOTE]
My knife was literally a catch and release. Received the knife and listed it that same day since I did not want my parents to pay for my vacation.
I checked if the knife worked flawlessly. No lock stick, no play, flipped well. Was in perfect condition when I sent it. The only thing I change was moved the dagger to the front of the pouch so the buyer doesn't think it is missing which happened to me since Microtech puts it inside the pouch.
From the buyers reply to me they said that the knife was basically not up to par or what the "expected". To me that sounds like buyers remorse.
Thanks once again. If buyer is willing to dispute this with Paypal I will have no problem.
QUOTE=Leftytwogunz;14907519]I had a similar situation once.
A guy bought a knife, and before it even arrived he said that he was going to be returning it because something else came up and he
wanted to spend the money elsewhere. Frustrated by my wasted time and expense I actually contacted paypal about this. I don't remember
if it was by phone or email, but the lady said that they do not cover "buyer's remorse". If you look in your paypal account there is a section
under seller protection or something like that. There are very specific reasons that they will side with the buyer and one is
"item significantly not as described"
If the item was as described then paypal will likely side with you during the dispute. I would go ahead and begin the process of getting in contact
with someone there.
best of luck[/QUOTE]
Thank you,
At least I know some people would do the same. If I was an actual dealer or even a maker then I would refund the knife. But I am not. If the buyer still wants they can send it to Microtech to replace the lock bar since they do not like how it came. Microtech does also change the lock bar.
My decision is firm on this one.
At least I know some people would do the same. If I was an actual dealer or even a maker then I would refund the knife. But I am not. If the buyer still wants they can send it to Microtech to replace the lock bar since they do not like how it came. Microtech does also change the lock bar.
My decision is firm on this one.
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Unless your violating a rule, you do what you feel is right and just. Everyone has a different outlook on these situations. As for myself, even though it's a inconvenience I just reverse The deal. As long as the buyer or trader returns item in same condition I sent it, we're all good. If for some reason a particular member is too much a burden to deal with, they go on my don't deal with list.
This is why I would like the buyer to resell the knife themself. For this kind of money it is not a pass around knife where everyone gets to look at it.
The knife was mint when I got it. It was literally a catch and release. Received it then posted it that day due to expenses.
The knife was mint when I got it. It was literally a catch and release. Received it then posted it that day due to expenses.
she cant do this.we are adults here not children or big buisiness were returns are excepted because of a wives tail.that lockup is perfect.early lockup is not a safe lock .trust me I have a realy messed up nuckle from a spine wack on a,early lockup xm.he showed a pic off the lockups and you excepted it.the knife is youres.why should he pay for youre to test drive it.shipping pluss 25$ restocking fee for troubles.she wants to think you are a knife dealer make her pay the restocking fee and shipping.do not refund till knife is in youre hand.paypal will side with her so dont let her get her money back and still have knife.try to keep paypal out of it.grow up girl this aint macy's.youre word is now crap.I think I will only dp deals with like 5 members now.list os becoming a phone book
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2003
- Messages
- 20,207
I must be missing something. Would not a full refund include refund of the shipping costs paid by the seller? In that case, the innocent seller is out the shipping costs he paid to get the knife to the remorseful buyer,
Right, people have been doing it and it does make a huge mess. Remember the guy who melted down on Spark a while back in tech support because he wanted his feedback changed? I mean, it seems like Spark doesn't even like the feedback system. And it is in situations like this that it is hard to see its usefulness. The way I see the rules (yes, I know there are those who see limited value in my perspective) no feedback should be left if the item and money is returned. That of course means the feedback for the window shopper will not reflect this poor behavior and folks who only look as far as itrader will never know to watch out for this person. Further, say this buyer leaves negative feedback. Like you said, it is hard to say if that is okay. I mean, I don't think it is but there is no hard fast rule here and in fact I don't know which way paypal would side on this transaction, I know which side they should but who knows. The OP has already said he will not leave feedback which is stand up and everything but we have seen recently several exchanges where retaliatory feedback and drama melt downs ensue.
Seems like itrader is a 3rd or fourth resource at best for researching someone. First resource would be to run a search here. Check where they spend most of their time. If it is only buying and selling that is a red flag, sorry to some of you, but it just is. next would be to check their posting style. How long have they been a member? Lots of these threads involve 2 newer members with low post counts. Again, sorry new people but take this thread as an example of why we need to protect ourselves from the inexperienced. I would say these things have more value than the current way itrader is working.
It is also clear that I will be mentioning returns in my future sales. It is sad that our for sales thread need to have a novels worth of stipulations but it is becoming more and more necessary.
Good on the OP for sticking to his guns. I hope it works out. And let's the rest of us note the buyers screen name is JennaLee.
I received the knife Saturday. I am returning the knife today, he should have it Thursday. I'm paying for shipping both ways.
How is this not reasonable?
I paid a premium price for a rare knife.
pictures are good but holding it is better
Demetri's response has been intense
for a knife he purchased but does not want to keep
every reason he could think of why I should keep it, including this thread
he is the victim because of the time effort cost of reselling
If I should have no trouble selling it, then Demetri should not
Why is Demetri so intent?
my interpretation of "lockup"
If the lockup bar has a full travel of 1 and travels 0.7 when stopped by the blade, then the lockup would be 0.7/1.0 = 0.7 or 70%
Here is a discussion:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1069035-meaning-of-a-knife-term-lockup
The difference is small but the lockup measured in this way is 12% larger in my picture (68%) than Demetri's (56%). In my picture, the detent ball can be seen and uses up 0.21" of the available travel making the lockup 86%.
This is what I based my decision on and it required holding, looking, and taking a picture.
thx
jenna
How is this not reasonable?
I paid a premium price for a rare knife.
pictures are good but holding it is better
Demetri's response has been intense
for a knife he purchased but does not want to keep
every reason he could think of why I should keep it, including this thread
he is the victim because of the time effort cost of reselling
If I should have no trouble selling it, then Demetri should not
Why is Demetri so intent?
my interpretation of "lockup"
If the lockup bar has a full travel of 1 and travels 0.7 when stopped by the blade, then the lockup would be 0.7/1.0 = 0.7 or 70%
Here is a discussion:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1069035-meaning-of-a-knife-term-lockup
The difference is small but the lockup measured in this way is 12% larger in my picture (68%) than Demetri's (56%). In my picture, the detent ball can be seen and uses up 0.21" of the available travel making the lockup 86%.
This is what I based my decision on and it required holding, looking, and taking a picture.
thx
jenna
I agree craytab, no completed deal, then no feedback. This thread will be plenty if anyone ever cares to search. Also, repeated tire kicking and such like this is not unnoticed. If it turns into a pattern, the person can be banned. There was once a guy that would buy something and complain for pages, each and everytime he bought something. The seller would eventually refund the money. When we noticed it the guy was given a chance to even out and slow his roll. Noop, he kept on doing it, a few days later another thread pops up claiming the item was not as described, there were missing parts, etc. we had all had about enough by that point so he was banned. But not after he complained that we were bullies, unfair, heavy handed, didn't know anything about knives, etc. Right....
I hope this issue can be resolved in a civil manner...
I hope this issue can be resolved in a civil manner...
I would like to point out Demetri is the person driving this thread not me.
I am not tire kicking. I sent $2100 to someone. I would not risk that just to handle a knife.
============ This has not happened before ============
I see suggestion and innuendo associating this transaction with other problems. I apologize for everybody Else's problems but this transaction is not related.
The knife is being returned with a USPS money order for $40.30 to cover Demetri's costs. I expect a $2100 refund to my pay pal account.
The condition of the knife is questionable, even Demetri suggests it should be sent to Microtech for repair. He did not share that opinion with me before I sent the money.
thx
jenna
I am not tire kicking. I sent $2100 to someone. I would not risk that just to handle a knife.
============ This has not happened before ============
I see suggestion and innuendo associating this transaction with other problems. I apologize for everybody Else's problems but this transaction is not related.
The knife is being returned with a USPS money order for $40.30 to cover Demetri's costs. I expect a $2100 refund to my pay pal account.
The condition of the knife is questionable, even Demetri suggests it should be sent to Microtech for repair. He did not share that opinion with me before I sent the money.
thx
jenna
wolfmann601
Gone, but not forgotton. RIP Ira.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2001
- Messages
- 7,385
Even If you planned to use that knife hard the difference in lockup is so insignificant it would not be noticed. It certainly does not create a safety issue.
What you did was come to a forum and shop for a knife like it was some sort of Brick and Mortar. When you buy on a forum you ask all the questions PRIOR to buying rather than claim you have some sort of consumer driven right of return. In the future maybe you should negotiate some sort of "inspection period" because most here will be leery to deal with you because of your now established reputation of using the exchange like it's Walmart!!!
What you did was come to a forum and shop for a knife like it was some sort of Brick and Mortar. When you buy on a forum you ask all the questions PRIOR to buying rather than claim you have some sort of consumer driven right of return. In the future maybe you should negotiate some sort of "inspection period" because most here will be leery to deal with you because of your now established reputation of using the exchange like it's Walmart!!!
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2011
- Messages
- 31,038
i can open any folder with liner or frame lock setup and squeeze harder and make the lock bar move in, or open and push the lock bar back open and have it seat earlier. i can have it seat either way for a picture. once i use it it will seat where it seats regardless of how hard or soft i open and how i play with the lock bar for positioning. point is i don't know who is doing what and it doesn't matter. i am not accusing anyone of anything but it seems silly, to me, how people worry about lockbar placement rather than if the lock functions properly regardless of where the bar sits.
hope y'all can figure out how to solve your disagreement civility and where either everyone feels content with the end.
that said i have nothing else to contribute, so........
A full refund would a refund of what was paid to the seller. Keep in mind the context of my statement - I was responding to a post that claimed that there is a small paypal cost to the seller when refunding; which is not true.
You are correct that the seller would be out shipping costs...except the buyer has since posted that she is paying shipping both ways.
You can't just send the knife back without his agreement . It just doesn't work that way. It has to be mutual . Your splitting hairs with your lock up argument . The lock up is perfectly fine. Now it is going to get messy . Shouldn't have done that.
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