i went and did a very bad thing...

jefff said:

"If I had a buddy that was in this market and got one of his designs copied and exploited or even in a close resemblance of one of his designs.. Yeah I would be like man that's BS.. but would I buy one.. Heck yeah .."

Says it all for me; honor and friendship now come with price tags! :rolleyes:
 
Exploitation, like beauty, is often in the eye of the beholder.

One person's idea of exploitation might be another's idea of salvation.

I'm sure that most workers in China, for example, are happy to get jobs that offer them just a little more than the subsistance level conditions that they had before that job.

Gradually, expectations will increase and workers will demand more.

When employers offer workers a fair share of the profits......all prosper.

Anything else is.....to varying degrees.....exploitation.

When American companies contract with foreign companies to make a product--the profit is being split between the Americans, the foreign company, and the workers.......with the American company getting most of it, the foreign company getting some and very little left for the workers.

For some workers, though, that "little" is a lot.

But, again......to produce a really excellent product, workers must at least be happy enough to believe that they are being treated fairly.

That should be the goal of all employers.

Greed on either side will cause problems.........and usually does.
 
Blackhearted said:
mtechkermsilver.jpg

-gabriel
smithand.html



I have this[440C] and I can tell you it is working better than butter knife.
chinese made american made It really does not matter.
I tested this knife I can tell you it is worth the money.
Comparison not need...............



plan no useless move, take no step in vain.

ishiyumisan
 
I have some ethical questions with this as well, but this isn't the correct forum for political or ethical debate, sufficed to say, I agree with those who have a problem supporting products like these.

However, one point I want to reiterate that was made earlier, that the original poster seems to continually be ignoring. It doesn't matter what is stamped on your blade, 440, ATS-34, whatever, companies like these, in order to make a profit at $8 a knife, will use the cheapest steel available, pot metal probably, and they stamp whatever they think sounds marketable on the blade, you are kidding yourself if you believe it's a decent quality blade steel.

Also, despite the fact that the F&F on your particular example seems to be good, the truth is, every single part of the knife, from screws to blade is made from the cheapest parts and materials they could find, do you really think for one minute they actually care about using even a decent quality screw, pivot, liner, blade, etc when the knife sells for $8? Of course not, your pivot screw could easily have microscopic flaws or inclusions and it may crack with some use, same with your blade, screws etc.. You may be dazzled with the surprising F&F, but don't be fooled into thinking this knife is safe to use hard, knives made from junk parts are not safe, even if they were finished nicely.

I do understand your point, but you are being a bit myopic and engaging in some wishfull thinking in order to vent your frustrations and make a point about poor QC from major US companies, yes, it bugs me too when I get a decent knife and it has obvious flaws, in fact, I hate to tell you this, those types of flaws, off center blades, uneven edges, poorly fitted locks are found on many $1000-$5000 customs too, more than you'd like to think, but, the difference of course is, the maker will correct any problems free of charge, as will any reputable US company, and you can be sure, while there may be some correctable flaws on these knives, the parts, even in knives which are produced on a budget, are still orders of magnitude better than what you'll find on the M-Techs.

There is no getting around it, the F&F on your knife might be surprisingly good, the parts it was made with, are not, nor could they be considering where and how it is made, and it's price, no free lunches.
 
jefff said:
If I had a buddy that was in this market and got one of his designs copied and exploited or even in a close resemblance of one of his designs.. Yeah I would be like man that's BS.. but would I buy one.. Heck yeah...

~Jeff

While I do have a good friend named Jeff, I sure am glad it's not you. :thumbdn:

I admit, I am amazed that lying to, cheating and stealing from a friend seems OK to you. :barf:
 
I want to say one more thing to the original poster. I understand all too well the search for perfection in a knife, in many ways, it is the hunt for a perfectly made, very high quality object that attracted me to knives in the first place, there are knives out there that are truly about as perfectly made a thing as is humanly possible, with outstanding quality in every regard. But, they are not all perfect, as you know. Some companies are more consistant than others.

You have obviously been disappointed with some of the $100 or so production knives you have bought, which is why your M-Tech is so amazing to you, though I maintain that whyile the M-Tech may seem well made, the quality of its parts is substandard to say the least, but, maybe you're just not buying the right knives. For example, I have several Microtechs that cost as little as $85, that are amazingly good knives, and the cheapest one I have, cost me just $85, is a manual action Kestral made in 1999, which by the way I just received today, it's literally as perfect as a knife can be, it just oozes quality and precision, I cannot find a thing wrong and it, and it is made like and has the look and feel of a fine swiss watch. The F&F would give most customs a run for their money, and it cost me $85. Yes, that's more than $8, 10 times more, but it's 100 times as much knife, maybe 1000, can you even quantify the difference between the 2 knives?

I agree, CRKT makes a mediocre knife and has spotty QC, as does Buck IMO, I have found many flawed knives from both companies, but you might have better luck with other brands like Microtech, their relatively cheap manuals, or a Sebenza, yes, I know, even if you get lucky, it will cost you $275 or so, but my god, putting a Sebenza next to an M-Tech should be some sort of crime. You cannot even compare, yes, its a lot more money, but, if it's perfection you seek, spend a little more than the $100 or so you're spending on Buck SBTs and CRKT's, forego buying several $100 knives and get yourself a good Microtech or Sebenza, the odds are VERY good it will satisfy you, yes, they cost more, but quality always does.

I agree, Buck and CRKT should have more consistant QC, but the sad truth is, very few companies, or even custom makers have QC I'd call very consistant, in production knives, only Microtech, CRK and Extrema Ratio have struck me as companies where it is extremely unlikely to find a poorly made knife that makes it past QC.

Edited to add: I didn't realize I had posted 3 times in a row, sorry about that. :)
 
how Mtech is taking business away from the high end( or even mid end) manufacturers?
Its like saying Yugo is taking business from Ferarri.
One is a high end sports car, the other basic transportation.
Two completely different market niches.
To say Mtech is taking business from Frost cutlery is more accurate.
I will never buy a Ferarri or a sebenza unless I win the lotto.

To Blackhearted: thanks for the tip. I may try this product!
To those that think its immoral to buy a Mtech: I don't think Chris Reeve or anyone else of his ilk will miss my paltry $8. I won't be buying their products anyway.
 
harpers ferry said:
how Mtech is taking business away from the high end( or even mid end) manufacturers?
Its like saying Yugo is taking business from Ferarri.
One is a high end sports car, the other basic transportation.

Yes, but Yugo doesn't make a car that looks exactly like a Ferarri with substandard parts.
 
show some stats that prove Mtech is taking away business from the so-called high end or mid end manufacturers.... I dare you
 
There was this.....

companies like these, in order to make a profit at $8 a knife, will use the cheapest steel available, pot metal probably,...

In reality, labor is the greatest cost, and these companies take advantage of the cheap labor costs.

Their steel can be, and often is, excellent.....the only way to find out is to try one.

The one under discussion at this point shows excellent workmanship and that tells me the steel is probably quite good as well.

They don't bother with excellent fit and finish and hang a junk blade on it......they want to sell more--not just a few.
 
If you are happy with the knife great. I bought one of the $6 Winchester folders (China made Gerber actually) at Wal-Mart and did so just for my tool box. Cheap knives have their place. Many boaters and sailers carry cheapy knives just incase it goes overboard. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Don't fool yourself though. Things may not always be as they first appear. My daddy taught me that if things seem to good to be true they probably are too good to be true. One thing I've learned in my time, 'you get what you pay for in this life'.

No question about it in my mind. Here is why. On that Winchester folder: Well I was so impressed with it that I went back later to get two more. One for each vehicle I own. Got home and neither of those two knives were anywhere near as nice as the first one I just grabbed off the rack without checking out. Both these others had blade movement. One lateral and the other from a cheesy lock up. So, I returned them. Went back to the sporting goods department and checked a little better on the next two. Looked inside the packages to see how far the locks went over and fit and finish as best I could. Got two I liked and even after looking them over before buying one of those was still sub standard as far as blade play. I took it back also and just kept two.

Conclusion? I was just lucky as hell on the first one being so nice. My guess is you have luck on your side as well. One of the things I looked at and noticed on these Winchesters was the variances in the lock up grind angles. Some were so angled that the locks could be defeated by simply pushing on the spine with your index finger while holding the knife. Others locked up very well and seemed secure. Honestly all these knives are good for is for beat em up jobs you would never use your good steel for. IMO.
 
lifter4Him said:
Man, this place has changed.
Integrity for sale for $8.


For some people, that appears to be a bargain. :rolleyes: What can you say to someone who is OK with theft, so long they save a few bucks? :confused:
 
lifter4Him said:
Man, this place has changed.
Integrity for sale for $8.

No it hasn't Dave. There will always be those here [and there] who think it's OK for someone to steal the exact design of another because they do not personally know the victim designer and thinks it's equally OK because it is "only" 8 bucks. This is sad and wrong!!!

AND, if Mtech sells 100,000 of these knives at 8 bucks and Liong is owed a buck a knife (hypothetical scenario), that's a hell of alot more than "just 8 bucks"!!!!

It's too bad one needs to personally know a victim of a crime for the crime to have merit.....................................
 
Man you some of you guys sure know how to twist words around... :D

This is the real world and the bottom line to people that really don't live and breath knives is price and quality .. ethics or not.. .. as long as it is for sale on a public market then it must be ok .. That is what it is telling me..
I am not saying it is ok that someone supposedly stole a design .. I am telling you though it is not my design and it is not my problem.. I am not in no way condoning actual theft..

I bet if one of your buddies were selling gas out of his garage for a buck fifty you would be right in line along with everyone else waiting to fill up.. .. even though there is no way that he could be refining gas and it had to come from somewhere.. This is life.. and if you don't relize it then it is time to open your eyes..

Do you really think these little rip off companies are really effecting the makers? I mean heck before I came to this site .. I had no idea what the best knife was (still not sure, between sebbie's and strider) and had a very limited knowledge of all the differnt high end makers.. I had heard of spyderco and benchmade.. but in real life when someone buys one of these knives I think there real intrest is saveing a few bucks on a cool looking knife.. and really could care less about whos design it was or if it is a copy..
 
lifter4Him said:
Man, this place has changed.
Integrity for sale for $8.
There are new forum members who need to be educated. After they have been taught, it is their choice to remain stupid or move forward.

I almost thought this thread was a joke until I read more posts and determined Blackhearted was serious. :(
 
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