Is Dull, Drab, Ugly and Agressive the New Measure of Beauty?

[Bushman5]

Sure, I can imagine how just about anything with a point or a sharp edge might be used in a pinch, but that exaggerated cartoon grind appears far to... specialized to be a realisticlly versatile cutting tool. Imagine skinning a deer or filleting a fish with that thing. What a mess!



Over reliance on safety features often leads to complacency and sloppy habits, and when those features eventually fail, disaster. This board is full of stories of serious injuries received from high-tech locking folders. Happens all the time. On the other hand, I seldom hear about slipjoint inflicted injuries because they encourage the user to practice safe handling skills and stay focused at all times.

i have used tons of knives OTHER than slippies for dressing game, processing meat. Never had an issue with "odd shaped" blades "making a mess". Hell, even my Spyderco Rescue assist worked just fine. Perhaps one needs to think outside the "traditional' box

as for safety features and ones reliance on them, and the body count associated with them...HOGWASH. I have seen tons of slippie injuries. It is POOR KNIFE HANDLING techniques by the USER that causes injury, NOT the knife.

btw, i'm curious about your reasons behind this thread? almost seems like your in a boat with a fishing line paying out behind it.....

not a personal attack, just an observation

 

[Leftoverdj]

Rick,

First of all the black matt killer knife is an iconic symbol in America.

It is the Kabar Marine knife, the knife that real men wore and used to kill in hand to hand combat.
I do not deny this possible use, but Hollywood and myth about it, made it like the Cowboy an extention of the Wild West culture.

There is a shift away from the need of a working knife as the culture becomes more urban.
The need of self defense in the urban society is a reality.
And the knife changes from being a working tool acceptable in anyones pocket, to a weapon that might be needed a 'stressful' situations.
And society has become much more violent.

Then as the skill of the average knife user lessens, the need for a 'safer' locking blades increase.

The cool factor goes a long way. How many of our kids want new cell phones as the marketing goes out implying the old one is 'out'.
We call the knives tacticool, and there is the market for $35 knives that kids will buy.

There is no point showing expensive knives to compare athetics.
What can you get for $35, a 'quaint' Case Stockman or a Tacticool?
So what is the question about kids buying what??

OK, we have a lot of sickies running around, and they need menacing looking knives to fuel paranoid fantasies and bolster dubious masculinity. I could have told you that. Come to think of it, I did.

Hard fact of the matter is that our society ain't all that dangerous, and what a knife is most likely to do in a defense situation is to get you shot, jailed or both. Even in that wildly remote situation, the wet dream special is not going to have a significant advantage over the Fallkniven.

Fellow with the Fallkniven is going to have a lot better chance of convincing cops, judge, and jury that he was not looking for a fight, though,

 

[stabman]

what a knife is most likely to do in a defense situation is to get you shot, jailed or both.

Although you are wrong in this assertion, it is beside the point.
The plain, simple fact of the matter is that the VAST majority of people who own knives that YOU deem unacceptable own them due the fact that they like the way the look, or like the sturdiness for some practical reason.
I fail to understand why you cannot accept this simple fact.
The people who buy the newest tactical knife for some weird, twisted fantasy of "Danger World" are FAR outnumbered by normal, regular, law abiding, hard working folks who buy the knife that suits them.
Why some people feel the need to project some heinous motivation on others due to their choice of cutlery might make an interesting psychological study.

 

[CaptInsano]

Sure, I can imagine how just about anything with a point or a sharp edge might be used in a pinch, but that exaggerated cartoon grind appears far to... specialized to be a realisticlly versatile cutting tool. Imagine skinning a deer or filleting a fish with that thing. What a mess!

You cannot be serious. Imagine skinning a deer or filleting a fish with this:

Filleting a fish? Are you honestly whining about filleting a fish with a pocket knife and overspecialization in the same breath?

Over reliance on safety features often leads to complacency and sloppy habits, and when those features eventually fail, disaster. This board is full of stories of serious injuries received from high-tech locking folders. Happens all the time. On the other hand, I seldom hear about slipjoint inflicted injuries because they encourage the user to practice safe handling skills and stay focused at all times.

Your premise is not only logically incoherent, but also plainly ridiculous. I guess we should just nix helmets and safety harnesses as well. How about snow tires? Steel toe boots? Just another crutch, I know. Hell, stainless steel is really almost completely unnecessary as a cutlery steel if one takes the proper precautions. The self inflicted injuries you reference occur after the breakdown of any number of levels of individual knife handling and usage technique. Without additional safety designs, they just occur one step earlier.

 

[CaptInsano]

OK, we have a lot of sickies running around, and they need menacing looking knives to fuel paranoid fantasies and bolster dubious masculinity. I could have told you that. Come to think of it, I did.

Hard fact of the matter is that our society ain't all that dangerous, and what a knife is most likely to do in a defense situation is to get you shot, jailed or both. Even in that wildly remote situation, the wet dream special is not going to have a significant advantage over the Fallkniven.

Fellow with the Fallkniven is going to have a lot better chance of convincing cops, judge, and jury that he was not looking for a fight, though,

He would if you were on the jury.

 

[SteelSnob]

OK, we have a lot of sickies running around, and they need menacing looking knives to fuel paranoid fantasies and bolster dubious masculinity. I could have told you that. Come to think of it, I did.

Hard fact of the matter is that our society ain't all that dangerous, and what a knife is most likely to do in a defense situation is to get you shot, jailed or both. Even in that wildly remote situation, the wet dream special is not going to have a significant advantage over the Fallkniven.

Fellow with the Fallkniven is going to have a lot better chance of convincing cops, judge, and jury that he was not looking for a fight, though,

I completely agree. If someones that worried about self defense get some good pepper spray, because that will probably work better than a knife and you won't face ADW charges or worse when it's all over. Put yourself in the cop or judges shoes and think which knife seems more like it is carried to be a weapon. Keep in mind they probably won't understand the tactical craze the knife world is experiencing.

If you think if you use a knife on someone even though you say you were attacked that law enforcement isn't going to scrutinize you then that's fine too. Good luck and hopefully you're right. But then again you may pull out that 4" black bladed intimidator and scare them off

 

[stabman]

If you think if you use a knife on someone even though you say you were attacked that law enforcement isn't going to scrutinize you then that's fine too.

Of course they will.
And every person with even half a brain knows that.

 

[SteelSnob]

Although you are wrong in this assertion, it is beside the point.
The plain, simple fact of the matter is that the VAST majority of people who own knives that YOU deem unacceptable own them due the fact that they like the way the look, or like the sturdiness for some practical reason.
I fail to understand why you cannot accept this simple fact.
The people who buy the newest tactical knife for some weird, twisted fantasy of "Danger World" are FAR outnumbered by normal, regular, law abiding, hard working folks who buy the knife that suits them.
Why some people feel the need to project some heinous motivation on others due to their choice of cutlery might make an interesting psychological study.

Then why did you post this saying his assertion was wrong about getting shot or in jail.

 

[CaptInsano]

Then why did you post this saying his assertion was wrong about getting shot or in jail.

Because it is wrong. Being scrutinized does not mean you will be put in jail. Likewise, some unsupportable notion about possessing a "tactical" knife does not mean anyone is actually get the carrier killed.

 

[stabman]

Then why did you post this saying his assertion was wrong about getting shot or in jail.

Because it is possible to defend oneself with lethal force without being shot or ending up in jail. That is also a fact.
There WILL be legal procedings, yes, and if lethal force was not required, jail time will ensue(as it should in such a case).
I object to repetitions of simplified statements which parade around as fact, when they aren't. It irks me.
And that particular "fact" get paraded around alot.
The fact that I am not carrying a "Death Dealer 2000" to fight off alley ninjas does not mean I won't be bothered by silly tripe.

 

[Rick]

You cannot be serious. Imagine skinning a deer or filleting a fish with this:

Filleting a fish? Are you honestly whining about filleting a fish with a pocket knife and overspecialization in the same breath?

C'mon . Does the right tool for the right job ring any bells? The Strider claims to be a serious knife for "hardcore" tasks. The Harkins "Shard" is a collectible automatic - it isn't intended to be used any more than an art deco dagger by Wolfgang Loerchner. It's an art knife. Isn't that obvious?

 

[SteelSnob]

Well Stabman I think you are mostly right and I think that for the most part thats yhe way things will go down. I also think that once in that courtroom a black bladed monster is not going to look good. I don't think that carrying a tactical looking knife is any worse or bettr than a different style if that's what you like or will get you killed. I do think carrying around a tactical mean looking knife will hurt your chances of claiming self defense because it looks like you're carrying around a aggressive looking weapon and possibly make you look like a aggressive weapon carrier that walks around looking for problems in the average NKPs eyes.

 

[stabman]

Well Stabman I think you are mostly right and I think that for the most part thats yhe way things will go down. I also think that once in that courtroom a black bladed monster is not going to look good. I don't think that carrying a tactical looking knife is any worse or bettr than a different style if that's what you like or will get you killed. I do think carrying around a tactical mean looking knife will hurt your chances of claiming self defense because it looks like you're carrying around a aggressive looking weapon and possibly make you look like a aggressive weapon carrier that walks around looking for problems in the average NKPs eyes.

Unfortunately, I believe you are correct about the perception by ordinary people on a jury.
I hope fervently that I never end up in a courtroom situation.
I also hope that I never end up in a situation where my knife is needed for anything more than regular knifely duties, mainly because I have no desire to harm others.

 

[65535]

Another thing is I this.

I appreciate a nice pinned construction gentle mans knife, or fixed blade with fancy handles and natural materials.

But when it comes down to what I pay money for I buy something I am willing to use around glues, solvents, and other things that fancy materials don't do well with.

I can take my SnG and soak it in acetone if I get anything on it. I can tear down the knife if it gets full of sawdust and that's gumming up the pivot.

So the kind of knife that covers what I need takes on a plain military no BS no frills look.

 

[Bushman5]

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regarding that knife......i've used my Benchmade SNODY Instigator to fillet fish, prep dinner and for utility and wilderness use. Its a knife, its sharp. I've used my BK9 and many other big choppers to prep dinner foods. Its a knife, its sharp.

nuff said

 

[Gadgetaholic]

Unfortunately, I believe you are correct about the perception by ordinary people on a jury.
I hope fervently that I never end up in a courtroom situation.
I also hope that I never end up in a situation where my knife is needed for anything more than regular knifely duties, mainly because I have no desire to harm others.

+1 on not having any desire to harm others. :thumbup:

But if I did have to use a knife to defend my life from someone carrying a gun then I doubt that I would be found guilty of anything. Self defense is a legitimate legal defense to murder and being armed with a knife where it isn't illegal is pretty innocuous compared to being armed with a gun.
My defense: he had a gun and I believed he was going to shoot me.
What more would I need than that?

 

[SteelSnob]

Stabman I feel the same way. I'm not out to hurt people. If I was ever forced to I would defend myself and hopefully a knife will never be necessary. Living in Los Angeles it is a possibilty I will be attacked but Im a 6ft 200lb+ guy and I get by pretty well with just minding my own business and being respectful to everyone I meet and at the same time being awake and cautious. The best self defense weapon we have is in between our ears as I'm sure you know. Not only defense from agressors but from the law as well.

 

[Leftoverdj]

You pull a knife on someone with a gun, and he's gonna back up two steps and shoot you. Not everyone is a fool. You pull a knife on someone with a walking stick, baseball bat, or similar, and he will beat you into the ground from safely out of reach. You actually manage to get into a knife fight, you are both going to get cut. I do not regard these as desirable outcomes.

Ain't a question of what I approve of or what I don't. It's a question of what is. Carry a knife that cannot help but being seen as a weapon, and it will be seen as a weapon. There will be reprecussions from that too.

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

all I can say is I sure as hell hope some of you never end up on a jury to decide me or anyone else fates....

I do think carrying around a tactical mean looking knife will hurt your chances of claiming self defense because it looks like you're carrying around a aggressive looking weapon and possibly make you look like a aggressive weapon carrier that walks around looking for problems in the average NKPs eyes.

So is the Glock 19 more likely to have you look like a bad guy than Nickle plated S&W model 29 with pearl grips ?

 

[Rick]

Another thing is I this.

I appreciate a nice pinned construction gentle mans knife, or fixed blade with fancy handles and natural materials.

But when it comes down to what I pay money for I buy something I am willing to use around glues, solvents, and other things that fancy materials don't do well with.

I can take my SnG and soak it in acetone if I get anything on it. I can tear down the knife if it gets full of sawdust and that's gumming up the pivot.

So the kind of knife that covers what I need takes on a plain military no BS no frills look.

That makes sense. Thanks.

I will say though, that knives with overwrought military affectations like flashy exaggerated grinds and sprayed-on tiger strips aren't exactly no BS, no frills, but I think you're referring to the more the down-to-earth variety.

It's also worth noting that those nice pinned gent's knives (slipjoint folders) you refer to have been routinely beaten like rented mules by the millions for well over a century without failure or causing any more injury to their owners than today's high-tech locking folders. I use and enjoy both.