Is there a difference between "survival" and "survivalist" training?

"I have not checked the price of gold today or for weeks because I don't make enough to worry about it, but I know what I am talking about... If you paid, say, $1,200.00 for a Krugerrand yesterday, which is probably not too far off...and it is worth half that a year from now, you have lost nothing. Not a cent. Gold is not more expensive, the dollar is worth less. If one ounce of gold is worth half that, $600.00, 12 months from now, that means the dollar is worth twice as much as it is now. That $600.00 you would get by selling your Krugerrand would purchase, roughly, $1,200.00 worth of stuff in today's dollars."



Great example Don!
AI

Here's an example of why gold would be worthless in a SHTF scenario:

My family raises cattle. If any of them survive whatever catastrophe takes place, they will be designated first for family food and then to barter. If oyu have gold buillion and another guy has surplus ammo for a weapon I own or water or a few able bodies, who do you think I am going to trade my cattle with? Not the guy with the shiny garbage.
 
Yeah, we got that and understand it really well but I think you missed a lot of the other posts involving the re4asoning behind NOT investing in gold.

I am actually pretty well versed in reasoning behind not looking to Gold as an investment...even argued that case myself. I think diversification in this area is important, and for me find holding some Gold to be prudent....not til after I have taken care of other more immenent needs, but just another part of the plan for me. I just liked how the man said what he did...it may not be precise, but was a nice example.
Take care
AI
 
Here's an example of why gold would be worthless in a SHTF scenario:

My family raises cattle. If any of them survive whatever catastrophe takes place, they will be designated first for family food and then to barter. If oyu have gold buillion and another guy has surplus ammo for a weapon I own or water or a few able bodies, who do you think I am going to trade my cattle with? Not the guy with the shiny garbage.

I think there can be different degrees of SHTF. It may not be an end of the world event, but some where between where we are, and total chaos. Even in a chaos state, things will settle down, and people will have to start to rebuild. If you have resources that people with goods want....that gold may not be just worthless shiny stuff.
AI
 
Like I said previously, there will be a place for gold after things start to settle, and for some people even in the worst case scenario. But the majority of us would probably be more concerned with trading stuff that we can eat, drink, grow, smoke, or provide medical care with. With all that said, I don't believe we will ever see a worst-case SHTF scenario in this country. I do think you will see the gap continue to widen between social classes but not an all-out Mad Max scenario.

Meant to say, I agree with you Agent Iron.
 
So programs like FEMA are in place to save as many sheeple as possible. Those of us who don't want to chance our lives on "government efficiency," and/or don't feel like that's the right thing to do anyway, will prepare as we see fit and depend only on ourselves to survive whatever situation we find ourselves in.

That's not quite correct. FEMA under democrats tends to highlight reactions to disasters but the original focus of FEMA was continuity of government. Under republican rule, it reverts back to the original focus and disasters like hurricanes, etc., take a back seat. The Clinton Administration's "FEMA" did well with natural disasters and the Bush Administration did not, this is the reason why.


I don't think there is a liberal media conspiracy but I do think there is a liberal media and that in itself is scary enough. I'm not much on believing any conspiracy theories.

I don't think it is a conspiracy at all! Conspiracy carries with it the connotation that something is covert. Their cesspool is right out in the open where everyone can get a good whiff of it. I remember back when the assault weapons bill was being debated and CNN had footage of an ATF Agent firing a fully-automatic AK-47 but semi-automatic rifles were being discussed in the voice over that accompanied the footage. I don't think that's just ignorance or stupidity, I think they intended it come across that way to the average viewer.

I just liked how the man said what he did...it may not be precise, but was a nice example.
Take care
AI

Howdy,

Thanks for the kind words. I don't think any of us are totally out of the game on this sort of thing, I was just kicking my two cents in. I think gold has an intrinsic value as an escape aid primarily and secondarily for other types of barter.

Like Jeff, I don't really believe in having massive amounts of gold. If I could afford it, I could certainly justify a one ounce Krugerrand, 2 1/2 Oz. fractional K-Rands, 4 1/4 Oz. fractional K-Rands and 10 1/10th Oz. fractional K-Rands for a whopping four ounces of gold which does not even meet the minimum order of some metal dealers right now. :D

If I could only afford one once...to put in a kit, it would be 10 1/10th Oz. fractional K-Rands. I would definitely do that if I could. I live in the suburbs, I don't think I would necessarily do that if I lived in a very rural area.
 
But the media is corporate-owned and profit-driven, and that my friends is NOT necessarily the realm of the liberal.

KD
 
Really? John McCain is very corporate and very wealthy and quite liberal. Just because the RNC got tired of hearing him cry every four years for a decade and a half doesn't mean he isn't a liberal.
 
Some of the biggest Socialist leaning politicians we have in government wear Republican clothing. Understand that liberals / Socialists are all for redistribution of wealth, as long as it's not their wealth that's being redistributed.
 
Liberal-compared-to-his-fellow-Republicans is not the same as being a Liberal.
By your standards, Obama is a Conservative.

KD
 
Well I just kept watching gold go up up up. I live on a pension with some savings, and the thought that my savings were being devalued daily prompted me to put a portion in gold. When I did it, I figured it would either be one of the dumbest things I ever did or one of the smartest. Only the future will tell. I know the "experts" say deflation is more likely than inflation, but one cannot deny that the dollar is weaker than it was and continues to lose value relative to gold, silver, or even oil. Also, the massive increase in money supply caused by the growing national debt seems like it will result in dollars becoming worth even less. The "Survivalist" in me said take some measures to preserve some of my savings in something of intrinsic value, just in case I'm right and the experts are wrong. The experts did not predict the crash last year, either. Not being a fortune teller, I can only take those measures that seem prudent with the information I have at the time. Personally, I hope I'm wrong and the dollar does not become too devalued since I have more dollars than gold ducets. Economic survival is more important to me than wilderness survival at this point.
 
Vampires, werewolves, I think a RAT machate to the head would take care of that problem, slice it in half then cut it off, that should do the trick I think, or even an RC-6, I sure that would do the job as well, LOL.
 
Kitco is a good place to check the daily gold prices, gold contracts, leases, gold mining stock prices, etc. I don't go there anymore, to look at gold daily I just go here, much simplier.

http://www.monex.com


Out Door Magazine has this 3 page pdf on their site, it is called:
Fallacy-of-gold.pdf

I think Jeff, as well as the rest of you might enjoy this too.


I am posting the body of it here:


One thing has always intrigued me about the preparation we all go through for surviving the end of the world. While there is no disputing the logic of stocking up on food, guns and ammo, and the other sundries of everyday life, lots of article have been devoted to the usefulness of gold in these TEOTWAWKI scenarios. Indeed, these pundits would
have us believe that gold is all we need to survive any calamity.

Not surprisingly, most of these articles have been written by a man with an interest to sell you gold and numismatic silver.

Let us look at a hypothetical situation. We're a few years into the future, four years after the disaster of your choice. It doesn't matter what brought us to this strait, just that civilization as we know it today no longer exists. You, like those
around you, survived. Unlike some others, you took precautions; like Aesop's ant, you laid in enough to see you through the lean years. Some of your neighbours weren't so foresighted, and one of these benighted souls, cold and hungry, has shown up at the door to your retreat. He has a box of 9mm that he scrounged somewhere, but owns a
.38 special revolver. Your Browning can always use a little more ammo, so you ask what he wants in trade.

At this point, let's ask ourselves what we would want in the above scenario. A box of .38's, and maybe a can or two of beef stew? Or a two ounce bar of 99% pure, shiny, worthless, gold?

Gold, like most things man has based an economy upon, has no intrinsic worth beyond what we assign. While it is quite handy in the electronics industry, and the jeweller's of the world wish us to believe it's the only way to buy true love, it has no other real uses. In a collapsed society, items of real worth will be those that we can use. Unpolluted
water, food, ammunition, any number of manufactured goods such as soap and toothpaste will be much more in demand than gold. It will be many years, if ever in our lifetimes, (depending on the severity of the situation) before gold is used again as a currency. Fishing weights and musket balls will be about all that gold would be good for.

But wait, you say. What about something other than a system-wide collapse, say a hurricane or other natural disaster of limited duration? Surely a stash of gold or pre-1965dimes and quarters will come in handy then?

Wrong again.

While it is true that unscrupulous shop owners will charge many times the going rate for goods and services in such a situation, how many of them do you suppose will take your word on how much a Krugerand is worth? How many people, outside of coin collectors and survivalists, even know about the value of pre-1965 silver coins? And even if they do, how do you propose to buy a loaf of bread with a two ounce bar of gold? Take a wheelbarrow along to cart home your change in greenbacks? Far better, if you live in flood- or tornado-prone areas, is to have a wad of bills to supplement your food and fuel reserves.

Which brings us to the meat of the matter. Now that I have hopefully dispelled the notion of gold being a wise investment (besides, how many of us can afford to have gold on top of everything else we need to put in our larders and lockers?), I'll give you some idea of what would be handy to have on hand for trade purposes.

As I said above, anything that you use on a daily basis will likely be in demand after a disaster, whether man-made or otherwise. Soap, paper towels, toilet paper, vitamins, toothpaste and toothbrushes; all common, everyday items that we take for granted now which may be impossible to scavenge. And there surely won't be any more being made.

What I do, so as not to break my budget but still lay in supplies that I myself will use, and possibly barter with, is this:

Every month, while doing my regular shopping, I buy an extra bar of soap, roll of paper towels, toilet paper, a bottle of analgesic, three big boxes of strike-anywhere matches, and Q-tips.

Every three months I lay in the following: a package of disposable razors, multi-vitamins (a jar of 133), tube of toothpaste, toothbrush, and a box of ten or twelve large, plastic garbage bags.

These are all things that I use on a daily basis, and wouldn't want to be without. While the toilet paper and Q-tips might seem to be pure comfort items, the soap and toothpaste are not. Basic hygiene is going to be more important than ever in a world without pharmacies and doctors. And those garbage bags may well prove to be the most
versatile thing in your stock of survival goods. While they can be used for their intended purpose, they will also do yeoman service as emergency rain slickers, waterproofing the roof of a shelter, disposing of diseased animal carcasses or human waste, waterproof sandbags to shore up a leaking dike... While they might not be ideal for some things, you'll at least have them to improvise with.

Other trade goods you might wish to lay in follow the same basic principles. What do you use on a daily basis, or see a possible need or use for in an emergency? If you can see a need for it, someone else will too. Only maybe they didn't have the foresight to have it on hand before the world went blooey!

What about extra ammo, preferably in a caliber you use yourself. That way, if you can't trade it (not too likely), you're not out anything. Food would be good, but remember, you need to eat, too. It's unlikely that you could have such a vast stockpile of stuff that you could trade away canned goods. But what about raising your own meat and trading that for something you don't have?

I live on two acres, and keep goats and rabbits. The goats provide me with meat, milk, and skins. The rabbits are tasty, and perhaps the easiest meat animal to raise. They take up next to no space, eat comparatively little, and breed... well, like rabbits. Two does and one buck can provide you with a lot of protein. But there is very little fat in
rabbits, so don't count on them alone. But the milk from the goats has a high fat content, and can be drunk as is, or made into butter or cheese.

Having a few fifty pound boxes of nails around wouldn't be amiss, either. People might be able to scrounge plywood and boards from other structures, but they won't find nails so easy to come by. Anything that is comparatively cheap today, and versatile or indispensable, would be a fine trade item.

A few cheap knives, such as those seen in catalogs, would be good, too. A stout fixed-blade knife of a bowie design would be much in demand in a world where we have to butcher our own food.

And don't forget services, either. A mechanic or general handyman would be a good man to know in an emergency, where there will be no manufacturing of new parts. An old-fashioned blacksmith would be a boon right about then.

So think about the possible future we're planning to survive, and what might be entailed in that brave new world. And gold won't figure prominently at all.
 
Some of the biggest Socialist leaning politicians we have in government wear Republican clothing. Understand that liberals / Socialists are all for redistribution of wealth, as long as it's not their wealth that's being redistributed.

That right there is some serious truth! Very few non-socialists in governmental positions. I remember reading a speech before congress by Davy Crocket where he did not feel it was the governments place to use constituents tax dollers to aid the wife of a fallen congressman. The cause was excellant...helping a widow in financial distress, but it was not his place to give "our" money for the cause....so he offered up something similart to half the sum requested out of his own pocket.
That is my kind of representative, and should be the standard.....not many if any walk in the shoes of men such as him.

You can work along my side anyday oh Rat Master! :)
 
Liberal-compared-to-his-fellow-Republicans is not the same as being a Liberal.
By your standards, Obama is a Conservative.

KD

The hallmark of the liberal is being a gun grabber and McCain is a gun grabber. Period. Rudy Guiliani? Gun grabber, don't like him, never have, never will. Not as bad a gun grabber as McCain, but makes no difference to me.
 
McCain made most former liberal Dem's look ultra conservative. I think his nomination could be the subject of conspiricay discussions.
AI
 
Re PastorMarko's above post:

Another few reasons gold isn't so good:
1.) IF you buy US coins, and disaster strikes, and you decide to use your gold. You go in to buy some gas, and figure that $50 gold coin you bought should buy you $50 of gas, right? Wrong. It's worth the face value of $5. Yep, screwed yourself out of $45.
2.) Now, after the society completely collapses. Say you actually find someone who will take gold in trade in case it becomes valuable again. Can he tell the difference between 10K gold, 14K, 18K, and 24K gold? Doesn't matter if you can, if he can't, he'll give you, at most, his 10K value for it. In fact, if he's a smart businessman, and he can tell the difference, he'll still only give you the 10K value.
3.) If society hasn't collapsed and you go to trade in your gold at, say, a jeweler so you get more than the face value. Know what they'll pay? That's right, the price by Troy weight. If you bought gold coins, you paid more than the price per Troy ounce. You lose ALL of the "collector value" of the coins when you trade them for gold content. If there are no collectors willing to buy for collector value, you have no choice. Better to buy bullion, if anything.

Another bad decision I see people make (for SHTF purposes) is buying gold securities instead of gold. Little pieces of paper saying you own gold will be high priced toilet paper.
 
Another bad decision I see people make (for SHTF purposes) is buying gold securities instead of gold. Little pieces of paper saying you own gold will be high priced toilet paper.

Agreed. The only value I see in investing in gold vs. paper, is that you've actually got the tangible asset rather than a number in an account. Owning gold "on paper" just doesn't make sense to me. I'm still not convinced gold is a worthy investment, but if I ever did, it would be for the actual element, not an account number.
 
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