Isn there anyone at Buck that checks the quality of the knives anymore ?

Let me say this. I often here people justify a knife having fit and finish issues is okay if its a user. I disagree. A user shouldnt mean its fit and finish is crap. I have plenty of $100+ and a few $200+ fixed blades that sre users not collector pieces. Just because its a user shouldnt mean its sloppy. There was a day when people took pride not only in what the did but what they used. Crap is crap, quality is quality regardless if its for collecting or using.
 
I think the whole issue of Buck quality goes beyond the feeling of not getting what you pay for. While that is an important part of the problem, I am willing that many here are remembering the Buck of old, the quality of fit/finish that you could count on.

Like so many other things have over the years, things change. Rather than to live with the disappointment of it all, it might be time just let Buck go away. They will do just fine without our business. Again, take a look at CASE. Folks still buy plenty of their product and if they get a "good one" the ooh and ahh happily, post pictures and eagerly defend the brand if needed. For them, buying a knife is like a lottery.

If they get "good one" they are quite pleased. If they get one with lazy snap, poor fit, etc., they write the knife off a user and proclaim that they don't care about fit and finish. On the traditional forum here, many even fix quality control problems themselves!

And Bravo to CASE for training purchasers to accept poor workmanship and simultaneously training their clients to do their work for them. If only I was that smart...

RAZORBLADES, Buck will either fix it or they won't, and we have nothing to say about it. I would say that for me, on the overview of things, a $100 lesson learned would piss me off, but I wouldn't dwell on it. Put the knife on EBAY, get 75% of your money back, and move to another manufacturer. It isn't worth the heartburn.

Robert
 
The main issue I have had with Case has been their inconsitiency in bone color. I have been fortunate not to get any with bad fit and finish except for 1 a couple a years ago that wasnt sharpened properly and had black gunk in it. Unfortunatley I'm with the crowd and dont have many brick stores to go handle the knives. Midnight flyer maybe you are right and some of use need to just move away from the brands we have loved for so long. But its hard to see such a great part of American heritage go by the wayside.
 
midnight flyer said:
I think the whole issue of Buck quality goes beyond the feeling of not getting what you pay for. While that is an important part of the problem, I am willing that many here are remembering the Buck of old, the quality of fit/finish that you could count on.

Like so many other things have over the years, things change. Rather than to live with the disappointment of it all, it might be time just let Buck go away. They will do just fine without our business. Again, take a look at CASE. Folks still buy plenty of their product and if they get a "good one" the ooh and ahh happily, post pictures and eagerly defend the brand if needed. For them, buying a knife is like a lottery.

If they get "good one" they are quite pleased. If they get one with lazy snap, poor fit, etc., they write the knife off a user and proclaim that they don't care about fit and finish. On the traditional forum here, many even fix quality control problems themselves!

And Bravo to CASE for training purchasers to accept poor workmanship and simultaneously training their clients to do their work for them. If only I was that smart...

RAZORBLADES, Buck will either fix it or they won't, and we have nothing to say about it. I would say that for me, on the overview of things, a $100 lesson learned would piss me off, but I wouldn't dwell on it. Put the knife on EBAY, get 75% of your money back, and move to another manufacturer. It isn't worth the heartburn.

Robert
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The simple fact is- NOTHING is made like it used to be. Knives, cars, guitars, furniture... the list can go on and on. We live in a disposable era, and that's a terrible shame. I recently turned 40 but I've sounded like a bitter old man for years, complaining about how things used to be better "back in my day". With that being said, I think Buck does still care. I think the quality issues they're currently dealing with will be fixed soon. I've heard the China production is coming back to the States. We all know about their warranty... all of this makes me believe this is a blip on the map and it's going to get better. If it doesn't, then I've bought my last Buck knife and I'll find another maker. I came to the Buck fold only after my beloved Camillus factory was shuttered (I'm from the same county as Camillus, New York and come from a looong line of Camillus users.

As for Case- who buys a Case for their pocket? They're nothing more than eye candy and cater to the collectibles crowd, riding the popularity of their name, much like Harley Davidson and Gibson guitars. Harley riders generally become good mechanics and a guitarist has to wade through a dozen three-grand crap guitars until they find a great one. And so goes Case knives and their happy (and oblivious) owners...

I really do understand not being pleased with your purchase and I consider myself lucky to have SMKW so close by that I'm able to hand pick a knife. Maybe I could start an online business of "knife middleman" for you guys and make weekly trips to the store and UPS them to you.;)

I guess all I'm saying is Buck has been a great knife for over one hundred years and I think we owe it to them to give them time to set things right. If not, so be it. No one is holding a gun to our heads and some other company will be more than pleased to take our hard earned cash.
 
mbjannusch said:
I don't believe price is what makes a knife one that would sit on a shelf verse one that is deemed a working knife. For instance the AG 110, it has a price tag of $90, there is nothing that would stop me from taking that knife out to the field and using it.
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There are people who use $250 knives and people who ride $12,000 bikes. I don't mean to imply otherwise. What I'm saying is that at a certain price (I think north of $75 but others may disagree) that expectations about fit and finish go up. That's been my experience in dealing with customers in different venues. Under a certain price (I think south of $50 for knives, but again, feel free to think otherwise) my sense is that people will live with fit and finish issues if they get durability.

Thirdly You state it's not a QC issue, its the materials they use. The materials used and the process for making the knife hasn't changed in 30 years. Buck still uses 420HC steel, Brass bolsters and Macassar Ebony handle scales. The Process hasn't changed.
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I could be wrong but I think the internals of the pivots have changed several times. My understanding was that early versions used a plain brass pin, later versions used a brass pin with a steel bushing and more recent ones use a softer brass bushing. I could be mistaken on that.

(Edited to add: I believe that hard-core Schrade USA fans would say that Schrade used steel pins on their lockbacks which made them stronger than a Buck.)

As for process, I have no idea. But really, shame on Buck if they haven't updated the production process in the past 50 years. Done correctly, modernized processes should allow for more consistent products.

I stand by my assertion. I've seen 3 recent Bucks that, out of the box, had no wobble. No QC inspection would have discarded them. They appeared fine. Had I been able to inspect them through the bubble pack, I would have purchased them. The issue of play developed over time. I should note that all three were noticeably smoother than my rougher opening but still tight 2 dot 110. This aligns with what I've learned on this forum that the internals have changed over the years.

QC and inspection can catch manufacturing mistakes that happen on the line.

Warranty returns and failures in the field can shed light on flaws in design, materials and construction processes.

What I'm hearing in this thread is that people are experience both fit and finish issues (should be caught by QC and fixed with better training) and failure and premature wear issues (should be addressed with engineering and process changes).

This is a both/and issue.
 
The main issue I have with Buck is the poor edges I received on the last few new knives I've gotten from them, and the 501 backspring issue. The edges are usually an easy fix. I was able to reprofile the WM 119 I bought with just my Flipstik. Those 501 backsprings though..as much as I'd like to replace the one I lost to the creek, I'm waiting until I hear they've fixed that problem. It just doesn't make sense for every other lockback manufacturer to have springs that are flush when the blade is closed, but it's considered part of the design by Buck. Other than that, any issues I've had were taken care of quickly, and except for one knife, everything has come back better than when it left.

I know some folks have mentioned the change in work force, hence a lack of experience among the workers..I wonder if a high turnover rate may be part of that problem as well. If people don't stay, and you have to replace them, you're constantly spending time training people rather than focusing on your products. Just a theory.
 
Lightening boy, I regularly carry Case in my pocket. I rotate between a Case and Buck. As a matter of fact untilrecently I oved away from Buck to Case for my pocket knives. I just recently came back to carrying Buck (apart from a 110 of smesort thats been riding consisently on my side for about 10 years) when I put one of my older ones in my pocket.
 
Not to be a arse about this,but we are 5 pages into this thread and not one comment from Buck on this topic ,Joe Houser and Chuck Buck are both moderators here,and not one word.I will say something is definately not right at Buck,Joe or C.J would have responded a couple of years ago,on the first page,now we see or here nothing?Why is that?
 
Oh.......I'd have to say that Buck most certainly could have replied on this thread if they wanted to.

They obviously don't want to. What could they say anyway?

Tell the truth? That wouldn't make them look good.

Better to use the usual stonewall that we see with questions like this.

It's just business and it's perfectly clear that when you make a huge number of knives it's more cost effective to let your customers send back knives than to do good quality control.

It wouldn't look good for Buck to come right out and say that, so they say nothing.

Can't blame them.
 
bg42edge said:
oh.......i'd have to say that buck most certainly could have replied on this thread if they wanted to.

They obviously don't want to. What could they say anyway?

Tell the truth? That wouldn't make them look good.

Better to use the usual stonewall that we see with questions like this.

It's just business and it's perfectly clear that when you make a huge number of knives it's more cost effective to let your customers send back knives than to do good quality control.

It wouldn't look good for buck to come right out and say that, so they say nothing.

Can't blame them.
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yes we can, and we are...
 
And they don't care......busy trying to find a way to spend all that money.

;)
 
suppose im lucky of the three Bucks i have and the dozen or so Case, not a single one warranted a send back are they all perfect? probably not then again neither is my $100+ GEC or Schatt and Morgan... money spent shouldnt dictate basic F&F issues, i understand this and agree... all my budget knives (Buck Nobleman, Case Soddie, etc.) have been great, your mileage may vary. Buck and Case have managed to stay afloat, while some biggies crashed and burned. I hate hearing all the problems everybody seems to be having with Buck QC, hopefully their working through a rough patch. As far as the critiquing of This or that companies business model well unless you work there its just conjecture. Its a matter of perspective, i havent had an issue, hopefully i never do, until then i'll keep the pitchfork and torch in the garage;) Cutlery Companies like Buck or Case can make whatever makes them money as long as they keep makin the ones i like and use:D but i'm selfish like that.
gene
 
I don't know Chuck Buck or Joe Houser from Adam, but I do know that Chuck has had a lot of health issues lately. He was doing a good well tour for Buck knives, he couldn't do the one last year because of health issues.
 
Since when does Joe reply to a threadthrough someone else?Never heard that one before,the good news is there are plenty of other knives i'll buy ,just not any more new bucks.I was definately expecting a response at least.
 
Plumberdv said:
Here's Joe's reply to me today when I reminded him about this thread.

"Dave,

When I got your first heads up I sent a link to the thread to Bill Keys and Gary Alvarado, the two guys in charge of the shop. It created quite a stir and they wanted to know what the specific issues are with each of the knives. That’s a fair question on their part, how else would they know what direction to go in?

I can say from a warranty department standpoint that I don’t have very many customer inquiries about the issues that I have heard about although I will admit I haven’t heard them all. I can say that as of recent, I don’t have any trends or red flags evident in the returns to warranty. If I start to get a lot of complaints about a certain defect, I inform the shop. I haven’t had to do this based on the returns/calls/emails in quite a while.

I suppose this could mean that customers are not complaining and just “living with it” when they discover something they don’t like. Its hard to know.

Gary A. is probably a new name to you as he just started here a couple months back. He is seriously concerned with making a quality product. I did not know how much so until I heard of some folks losing their jobs over bad quality practices. He means business!

I am hoping to meet with him soon and ask him about his plans for the shop. In the meantime, I hope this email helps at least a little. I have been doing this for a while and have ideas in regards to the knives mentioned in the thread but without actually seeing the knives, it would be irresponsible of me to offer an explanation. The one poster provided a picture of a 110 where the blade was touching the case, that knife should not have made it out of the building like that. The tolerance the shop has is that as long as you can slide a piece of paper between the blade and the inside of the case, it is ok.

Anyway, I do hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Houser

Director of Customer Relations
Buck Collectors Club Liaison
Company Historian"
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Here you go.
 
I say this with no offense to anyone.

I handle alot of Buck knives, easily 100's, mostly 110's. I've only ever sent back one 103 in my life as it broke, arguably from abuse, but they didn't ask any questions or offer any excuses. They sent me a new one, all the way to Canada and never asked for any shipping. If the supplier sent you something defective, they should pay shipping both ways, just like ebay policy or even our place of work...
I can't speak for Buck, but I think maybe they'd rather avoid every little scrutiny here and take care of the people who actually send them back, whether to their supplier, or the manufacture

Just like people I know on Facebook who post their personal problems, usually no one responds.... Post something positive and you will get much more attention IMHO :)

Seems like a lot of frequent posters have disappeared maybe because of the above

The reason I've stuck with Customizing Buck products, is because, through experience and use I've found them to be a superior product for the price, (P.S. The one claim I had went perfectly.)
 
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