it wasn't true. i did post at hoodep's threads only after he disappeared, while still

[Marko3]

Gift is always a bad idea and a no go for me, seller or buyer. As a seller, if I am worried enough about an item getting to its intended destination that I need to ask for gift or make special terms I will not do the deal. It is not worth it for me.

Nor would I send anything international besides Canada. Sorry international guys, but see this very thread as an example.

I should have phrased it better. I only would accept gift when international. Its the only way I will go out of my way. But it does not matter anymore because I will not sell out of USA anymore.

When I deal in USA with anyone I pay in goods and service and I get paid in goods and service .. However I have received gift payments but not because of any policy . Gift is good and no problem if it is friendly transaction

 

[ichor]

.

I feel that the seller fulfilled his obligation and did what the seller asked. Fact is the knife is gone .. The Russian Postal service is corrupt this is well known . Seller knew it but he let his wants get in the way of reality .

Pretty cut and dried to me.

 

[Grayzer86]

Personally i dont think this is the sellers problem at this point. He shouldnt have to read through pages of russian laws to figure out if the item is legal. That responsibility lies with the buyer. It is his country and therefore its his duty to know the laws and purchase within these laws. He also agreed to accept responsibility for the shipment knowing the risks himself. The seller tried to initiate a claim on the insurance and it was denied, because the BUYER purchased an item he should not have. There is not much else he can do at this stage, and the seller can not be expected to offer a full refund, and take the hit on his own. I have agreed to the same terms even for shipping to Canada, and if an item was seized because it could be considered illegal, i would accept the consequences.

 

[SidTheMuss]

My opinion, the seller has a responsibility to get the knife to the buyer or a refund. Period. Don't think it will make it safely? DONT send it.

The seller can put what ever clause or disclaimer they want in there post but that doesn't make it morally right or LEGALLY BINDING.

Haven't we all discussed insurance is for the seller, NOT the buyer?

These threads always show the snakes. Gotta love good bad and ugly!!

i agree 100%. it doesn't matter what stipulations the seller put in the sales thread, it is the seller who owns the knife till it is happily in buyers possession. i don't care what the guys rating is, i will never do business with him. he needs to make the deal right.

 

[endgamer]

its not the sellers responsibility its the buyer if he has to ship threw customs of a corrupt country like russia.maybe give some money back but I dont think he needs to .but if he wants to stay friends and keep up a good rep offer a partial refund.if you are buying a knife you no its illegal to get threw customs its youre fault the seller does not need to check youre laws that is up to you.conus only guys keeps this stuff from happening.he owes the buyer nada but to be a stand up guy a partial refund would be cool.a full refund no way...if seller offers partial refund and you are not happy with that.youre in the wrong.cause he actually owes you nothing.

 

[endgamer]

​

i agree 100%. it doesn't matter what stipulations the seller put in the sales thread, it is the seller who owns the knife till it is happily in buyers possession. i don't care what the guys rating is, i will never do business with him. he needs to make the deal right.

this is only true for conus.if ut has to go threw customs its the buyers responsibility to no his laws and if it will go threw customs. not the sellers and this is the only case in wich this works

 

[KyleMS11]

My opinion, the seller has a responsibility to get the knife to the buyer or a refund. Period. Don't think it will make it safely? DONT send it.

The seller can put what ever clause or disclaimer they want in there post but that doesn't make it morally right or LEGALLY BINDING.

Haven't we all discussed insurance is for the seller, NOT the buyer?

These threads always show the snakes. Gotta love good bad and ugly!!

I agree. The seller obviously had a feeling the knife may not get to its destination if it was shipped out of the country, thats why he said its not his responsibility once it leaves his hands. So he should have never agreed to ship out of the country if he had a feeling it would not make it. Thats why i never ship out of the u.s. not evan canada. There have been plenty of times where i had a knife and it wasnt selling and then someone PM'd me and said ill take it if you ship to this country, but i still didnt because i know that there is always a chance that the knife may not make it through customs to the buyer. I wouldnt take someones money for an item just to put it in my pocket knowing that item has a very good chance of not making it to the buyer. Not just the sellers fault, both take fault for both making a stupid decision.

 

[ammiraglio]

As seller, my personal approach is to offer only DHL/UPS/FedEX for international shipping.
Not cheap, but safe. If the customer wants to save money, he does it at his own risk.
This has to be clear from the beginning, the customer has to be informed prior to any transaction.

 

[338375]

I have done two sales to that region one to Russia and one to the Ukraine . Both items reached the buyer thank goodness. Recently I had a valuable custom that was for sale and a man from Russia wanted to buy it. My policy right or wrong is once its been shipped you are on your own ,, I also only accept gift payments. Cold hearted maybe. But the thing is sometimes these guys are willing to take the risk. Its the only way they can get things they want. Sometimes they win and sometimes they loose. You just cant change the agreement after a loss.

Why do you only accept Gift payments ? Cold hearted ? No... However, it is clearly a violation of Payapls terms of use, and even more important, it takes away any chance for a buyer to recover their money if the situation goes bad... IMNSHO that shows a total lack of respect for the buyer.

Quite honestly, I think that any member that clearly specifies they accept PP Gift only, should not be allowed to do business here.
If someone is so desperate for money, that they can't absorb the PP fees, perhaps the shouldn't be buying and selling knives....

The other pet peeve of mine is people that list a knife for sale for $xxx, and then say that the buyer needs to add 3.5% or whatever to cover fees.
Really ? If a seller is to lazy to do the math on a calculator and include it in the price, I don't see how they would be any more motivated to get the package to the post office once they have received funds...

None of this needs to be this difficult. It is a hobby. YMMV of course...

 

[ichor]

Why do you only accept Gift payments ? Cold hearted ? No... However, it is clearly a violation of Payapls terms of use, and even more important, it takes away any chance for a buyer to recover their money if the situation goes bad... IMNSHO that shows a total lack of respect for the buyer.

Quite honestly, I think that any member that clearly specifies they accept PP Gift only, should not be allowed to do business here.
If someone is so desperate for money, that they can't absorb the PP fees, perhaps the shouldn't be buying and selling knives....

The other pet peeve of mine is people that list a knife for sale for $xxx, and then say that the buyer needs to add 3.5% or whatever to cover fees.
Really ? If a seller is to lazy to do the math on a calculator and include it in the price, I don't see how they would be any more motivated to get the package to the post office once they have received funds...

None of this needs to be this difficult. It is a hobby. YMMV of course...

Very well stated. Couldn't be more in agreement!

 

[SaintlyBrees]

Why do you only accept Gift payments ? Cold hearted ? No... However, it is clearly a violation of Payapls terms of use, and even more important, it takes away any chance for a buyer to recover their money if the situation goes bad... IMNSHO that shows a total lack of respect for the buyer.

Quite honestly, I think that any member that clearly specifies they accept PP Gift only, should not be allowed to do business here.
If someone is so desperate for money, that they can't absorb the PP fees, perhaps the shouldn't be buying and selling knives....

The other pet peeve of mine is people that list a knife for sale for $xxx, and then say that the buyer needs to add 3.5% or whatever to cover fees.
Really ? If a seller is to lazy to do the math on a calculator and include it in the price, I don't see how they would be any more motivated to get the package to the post office once they have received funds...

None of this needs to be this difficult. It is a hobby. YMMV of course...

In concept I absolutely agree. But to be fair, Marko's first post gave the wrong impression so he chose to clarify his statement a bit in a later post:

I should have phrased it better. I only would accept gift when international. Its the only way I will go out of my way. But it does not matter anymore because I will not sell out of USA anymore.

When I deal in USA with anyone I pay in goods and service and I get paid in goods and service .. However I have received gift payments but not because of any policy . Gift is good and no problem if it is friendly transaction

I've done business with Marko and he is certainly one of the good guys. I'll not hesitate to do business with him again and I only do business via PP goods - which Marko accepts on domestic deals. So, FWIW, I hope others catch his clarification as well and realize that he is a class act and a great guy to do a deal with.

 

[Marko3]

Why do you only accept Gift payments ? Cold hearted ? No... However, it is clearly a violation of Payapls terms of use, and even more important, it takes away any chance for a buyer to recover their money if the situation goes bad... IMNSHO that shows a total lack of respect for the buyer.

Quite honestly, I think that any member that clearly specifies they accept PP Gift only, should not be allowed to do business here.
If someone is so desperate for money, that they can't absorb the PP fees, perhaps the shouldn't be buying and selling knives....

The other pet peeve of mine is people that list a knife for sale for $xxx, and then say that the buyer needs to add 3.5% or whatever to cover fees.
Really ? If a seller is to lazy to do the math on a calculator and include it in the price, I don't see how they would be any more motivated to get the package to the post office once they have received funds...

None of this needs to be this difficult. It is a hobby. YMMV of course...

Frankly I could care less what you think.. However its for international sales because of the high risk of fraud. So get off your high horse and stop pointing fingers and spouting about pay pal policy .

 

[JR88FAN]

i agree 100%. it doesn't matter what stipulations the seller put in the sales thread, it is the seller who owns the knife till it is happily in buyers possession. i don't care what the guys rating is, i will never do business with him. he needs to make the deal right.

This has to be the most illogical post I have read in a long time.

The stipulations in a thread are the sellers right, and by agreeing to them, the buyer then has to live with them. That's cut and dry. If you don't like it, buy from someone else.

This is not deceit or fraud. Russia is well known for disappearing merchandise. I grew up in Eastern Europe, and I would NEVER ship anything like a knife there.
I get how that system works. Little to zero transparency when things go missing. Good luck getting any type of answer...
Furthermore, a seller has no way of knowing the rules, laws, and postal/customs nuances of every country on the planet.

This is on the buyer. You ship international, and there is a risk.
If you as the BUYER are unwilling to except that risk when it's fairly presented by the SELLER and that it is yours to take, don't buy the item.

To much self righteous coddling going on around here.....

 

[338375]

In concept I absolutely agree. But to be fair, Marko's first post gave the wrong impression so he chose to clarify his statement a bit in a later post:



I've done business with Marko and he is certainly one of the good guys. I'll not hesitate to do business with him again and I only do business via PP goods - which Marko accepts on domestic deals. So, FWIW, I hope others catch his clarification as well and realize that he is a class act and a great guy to do a deal with.

My mistake. I didn't see the earlier post

Frankly I could care less what you think.. However its for international sales because of the high risk of fraud. So get off your high horse and stop pointing fingers and spouting about pay pal policy .

I didn't ask if you cared. I just stated my opinion.... I'm not on a high horse, nor spouting PP policy, just stating a well known fact that has been discussed many times here. I've read enough threads here pertaining to people that got screwed because they payed with the "Gift" option, that it is a sore subject with me. Then again, if a buyer chooses to pay using the Gift option, they are just as much to fault as the seller.

That said, I'm also big enough to apologize for making the comments I did, when I didn't see your post stating you don't use the Gift option in the U.S, only on international dealings, but I don't understand what the benefit is to using the Gift option when dealing outside the U.S

 

[ichor]

I'm not crazy about the seller's policies, or the fact that he sold and shipped a knife that he, admittedly,... KNEW might run into shipping/customs problems. I would have never shipped under those conditions. That said....The buyer, in his OWN COUNTRY, well aware of his own laws , clearly knew the risk. He did it anyhow, and ended up taking it in the ass. Now he comes here pissing and moaning for sympathy. And, astoundingly....he's getting it. I don't get it, that he is getting so much support and sympathy. Ridiculous.

 

[Marko3]

My mistake. I didn't see the earlier post



I didn't ask if you cared. I just stated my opinion.... I'm not on a high horse, nor spouting PP policy, just stating a well known fact that has been discussed many times here. I've read enough threads here pertaining to people that got screwed because they payed with the "Gift" option, that it is a sore subject with me. Then again, if a buyer chooses to pay using the Gift option, they are just as much to fault as the seller.

That said, I'm also big enough to apologize for making the comments I did, when I didn't see your post stating you don't use the Gift option in the U.S, only on international dealings, but I don't understand what the benefit is to using the Gift option when dealing outside the U.S

No Prob .. It really does not matter anymore because I will never do a transaction outside the states again. I use Paypal on a daily basis and I pay them a lot of money over the coarse of the year . Its a good safe service. Take care.

 

[Karda]

Furthermore, a seller has no way of knowing the rules, laws, and postal/customs nuances of every country on the planet.

For most countries, the customs regulations on what is allowable and what is not are posted online and searchable. All one has to do is take the time to look.
It is as much a sellers responsibility to know if he's sending a prohibited item to a country as it is the buyers.

 

[JR88FAN]

For most countries, the customs regulations on what is allowable and what is not are posted online and searchable. All one has to do is take the time to look.
It is as much a sellers responsibility to know if he's sending a prohibited item to a country as it is the buyers.

This is absolutely not correct.
For instance, nowhere in the any countries custom regulations, or postal regulations for that matter, does it say, 'your knife (item) may be stolen'

It's funny how we tend to think that the entire world works with the same transparency as where we live.
Not to say theft does not happen in the US postal system, but it is much more of a rarity, and handled very differently.

Eastern Europe is a very different place then America. Russia is a very different place......

I am not sure you can fully understand this unless you have lived there.

 

[Karda]

This is absolutely not correct.
For instance, nowhere in the any countries custom regulations, or postal regulations for that matter, does it say, 'your knife (item) may be stolen'

It's funny how we tend to think that the entire world works with the same transparency as where we live.
Not to say theft does not happen in the US postal system, but it is much more of a rarity, and handled very differently.

Eastern Europe is a very different place then America. Russia is a very different place......

I am not sure you can fully understand this unless you have lived there.

I said the customs regulations are posted online, nowhere did I say anything about the acts of any postal service or customs office.

Actually, on this very forum and others and on the web in general there is quite a bit of information about the risks of sending items to just about anywhere in the world if one takes the time to look. I've shipped internationally to many places for a few years now and I have yet to have my own due diligence cause a problem.

 

[stonproject]

I said the customs regulations are posted online, nowhere did I say anything about the acts of any postal service or customs office.

Actually, on this very forum and others and on the web in general there is quite a bit of information about the risks of sending items to just about anywhere in the world if one takes the time to look. I've shipped internationally to many places for a few years now and I have yet to have my own due diligence cause a problem.

So Karda... What do you think would be a fair resolution?

I believe the seller should refund about 20% of the cost.