it wasn't true. i did post at hoodep's threads only after he disappeared, while still

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Karda said:
I said the customs regulations are posted online, nowhere did I say anything about the acts of any postal service or customs office.

Actually, on this very forum and others and on the web in general there is quite a bit of information about the risks of sending items to just about anywhere in the world if one takes the time to look. I've shipped internationally to many places for a few years now and I have yet to have my own due diligence cause a problem.
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Agreed about the risk to many international destinations.

That risk is the buyers if that is the agreement, just as if PP gift is chosen as the option by the buyer, he also assumes that risk.
The point is, you can't have this both ways. Either we have concrete rules in the exchange about everything, or we allow sellers to set terms, and buyers to decide if they want to agree to them.


Anything that is agreed on by both parties in a sale should be considered 'the deal'

As far as 'acts by 'postal service or customs office' that is at times more important to know than what the actual 'rules and laws' are, as they can have just as big an impact on the chances that an expensive knife (item) will reach it's destination.
 
Marko3 said:
No Prob .. It really does not matter anymore because I will never do a transaction outside the states again. I use Paypal on a daily basis and I pay them a lot of money over the coarse of the year . Its a good safe service. Take care.
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:cool:

It is a good service. Very convenient. I don't blame you for not wanting to do overseas transactions. I've only done a few, but each time I was sweating bullets until I heard from the buyer that it had arrived...

The members here that live outside the country, probably don't think it is fair that many won't send knives overseas, but it's nothing personal against them, it's just not worth the potential headaches.
 
338375 said:
:cool:

It is a good service. Very convenient. I don't blame you for not wanting to do overseas transactions. I've only done a few, but each time I was sweating bullets until I heard from the buyer that it had arrived...

The members here that live outside the country, probably don't think it is fair that many won't send knives overseas, but it's nothing personal against them, it's just not worth the potential headaches.
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Most of us understand that there is little need to take that risk when you have a market of almost 400 million people.

I for one assume resonsibilty to anything shipped to me from the USA, and make that clear to any seller that is nice enough to ship outside their comfort zone, and do the extra work.
However, I also give very specific shipping instructions.

After this thread though, there will be even less people willing to ship international.
When you have a Moderator stating that it is a sellers responsibility to understand international laws, that can be a little much for some people. It's hard enough to figure out laws state to state, nevermind trying to sweat out shipping a $1000.00 knife to Russia.....
 
JR88FAN said:
When you have a Moderator stating that it is a sellers responsibility to understand international laws, that can be a little much for some people. It's hard enough to figure out laws state to state, nevermind trying to sweat out shipping a $1000.00 knife to Russia.....
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It's just good common sense to know what may or may not be allowed to be shipped to a country/state and as I stated, is as much a sellers responsibility as it is a buyers....that is unless a seller likes to take chance that his shipment may be confiscated and destroyed as contraband and be on the hook for the shipment. Any lawyer or judge will tell you that "ignorance of the law is no excuse".

Also little light reading for those so inclined....

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ving-a-good-Buying-Selling-Trading-experience

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/993398-Registered-Insured-Mail
 
Karda said:
It's just good common sense to know what may or may not be allowed to be shipped to a country/state and as I stated, is as much a sellers responsibility as it is a buyers....that is unless a seller likes to take chance that his shipment may be confiscated and destroyed as contraband and be on the hook for the shipment. Any lawyer or judge will tell you that "ignorance of the law is no excuse".

Also little light reading for those so inclined....

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ving-a-good-Buying-Selling-Trading-experience

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/993398-Registered-Insured-Mail
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I am not only talking about the law. (See previous posts) but the tendancy for things to go 'missing' in certain countries.
A quick Google search will show you the issues with shipping to Russia. (Just one example, but that is the country in question here)

I have read those links long ago they are guidlines and not rules.
At the end of the day the seller reserves the right to make the terms of his deal.
You can see that all over the exchange right now when it comes to international shipping.
'At buyers risk' is common and in my opinion, fair.
 
I'm not taking the time to read this whole thing so I know, I know "read more post less" but I know USPS shipping insurance only covers delivery to customs of another country. Due to the fact that customs often times has a very weird idea of what is and is not allowed. Once its stolen, I mean confiscated by Russian customs it is out of USPS hands and therefore no longer covered by insurance.
 
Just as the buyer is expected to know laws of import, the seller is expected to know the laws and regulations of insurance - specific situations that aren't covered. For e.g., seller should have asked these questions to the insurance company - "What happens if the item reaches customs of destination country, and is lost. Will the insurance pay up?" and several others before buying the insurance. Seller used insurance to boost buyer's confidence into buying his goods, so I am not sure why folks here point what was agreed in letter and absolve seller of all responsibility. What was agreed in spirit is even more important.

Insurance being denied is not the buyers fault - I doubt if morda (buyer) would have put down $1000 had the seller not insured it or had indicated the insurance may not cover certain situations. Insurance company does not pay up, seller pays full amount from his pocket. There isn't a second outcome IMO. The seller should refund the buyer in full, at least that is what I would have done.

I had a similar sh** experience with a very popular custom goods seller from Germany - he made me pay for the insurance and when the flashlight was lost, refused paying up till his insurance paid him. At one point he even went further to accuse me of theft, though I provided him a letter from our PO that the package was received empty. The deal happened on other forum but the seller is active on both. Since then I avoid him like the plague.

If goods are insured, it's the seller's responsibility to make whole. Everything else is a lame excuse to not pay up.
 
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Choombak ... You do make a good point about the insurance . I never looked at it that way , I guess most of us have our own way to justify what we do and don't do.
 
If both parties in the situation agreed that sending things to Russia of all godforsaken places one of the countries with not only the highest rate of postal theft but also the sketchiest customs then how is it the sellers problem when he clearly stated that he was accepting no responsibility past the United States border. Does it cast the seller in the best light, no, did he do anything wrong, also no because the buyer agreed to the terms of the sale. If you live in Russia I do understand it is hard to get products and goods from other countries but unless you fly and pick them up personally that is the risk you take. If the seller had eluded he would pay for the item if it was lost that would be an entirely different scenario but the seller even showed reluctance to ship internationally. The seller probably knew full well the terms of the insurance hence why he only guaranteed the package to U.S. borders.
 
STAINLESS90 said:
If both parties in the situation agreed that sending things to Russia of all godforsaken places one of the countries with not only the highest rate of postal theft but also the sketchiest customs then how is it the sellers problem when he clearly stated that he was accepting no responsibility past the United States border. Does it cast the seller in the best light, no, did he do anything wrong, also no because the buyer agreed to the terms of the sale. If you live in Russia I do understand it is hard to get products and goods from other countries but unless you fly and pick them up personally that is the risk you take. If the seller had eluded he would pay for the item if it was lost that would be an entirely different scenario but the seller even showed reluctance to ship internationally. The seller probably knew full well the terms of the insurance hence why he only guaranteed the package to U.S. borders.
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I don't believe the seller knew the full extent of coverage, since he filed for a claim (why would you file if you know it ain't covered?). Additionally, the buyer paid for insurance. As I said, if the buyer is expected to know the laws of his land, the seller is expected to know the rules of insurance - and choose insurance accordingly. Bitching about USPS insurance after-the-fact isn't exactly "insurance" is it? Had the insurance paid up, the outcome certainly would have been different - so essentially the seller isn't paying the buyer because the insurance did not pay up, and is now using the "disclaimers" etc. in his sales thread to not refund the buyer in full. Of course, everyone has a different perspective of things but I see this happen far too many times - when the insurance screws up, suddenly everyone is pointing to the "disclaimers" as well as ranking countries based on postal theft, and so on. Anything less than full refund to the buyer is sneaky.
 
Think of it this way....
If this was a business the buyer ordered from, refund or replacement of the lost shipment would be expected....even demanded here.
 
I love how we are all arguing with each other about this but we don't really know the facts here.


No one has answered how the buyer paid. Until that happens there isn't anything more to this situation. We don't even know if a transaction occurred.
 
craytab said:
I love how we are all arguing with each other about this but we don't really know the facts here.

No one has answered how the buyer paid. Until that happens there isn't anything more to this situation. We don't even know if a transaction occurred.
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The original sales thread has this information.
 
choombak said:
The original sales thread has this information.
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I saw the original thread a while ago. That is not what I am getting at.

If it was paypal gift then nothing technically happened. The financial institution nor the authorities would support the buyer if it was a "gift". Nothing can be done if it was gift except ramifications for the seller here.

Without knowing how the transaction was conducted, nothing else really matters. IF the OP cares so much about this why not come here and tell us how he paid? Answer: it was probably by gift.

Your point about insurance is a good one, then again, it does not matter if it was a gift....
 
SidTheMuss said:
you don't think you can insure a gift?
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I in no way said that. What I said is that if he paid in gift, everything else is irrelevant. He didn't buy anything. He gave someone his money for no reason. That insurance money would technically not be the buyer's. It would belong to the seller. This is how paypal would see it. This is way we are so against using gift here. It is not a good idea for this very reason.
 
craytab said:
Your point about insurance is a good one, then again, it does not matter if it was a gift....
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this is in no way saying that? i get u are letting the forum know not to pay with the gift option, but the gift option has nothing to do with usps insurance.
 
SidTheMuss said:
this is in no way saying that? i get u are letting the forum know not to pay with the gift option, but the gift option has nothing to do with usps insurance.
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It has everything to do with it. In a goods transaction the insurance protects the seller. If something goes wrong the seller refunds the buyer and seeks to recoup their money from an insurance claim. In a gift transaction the insurance protects no one since there was no transaction. In a gift transaction if something goes wrong the buyer is SOL. With the gift option the insurance is irrelevant in respect to the resolution. I mean, if the mods want they could ban they seller or infract him or call him dirty names but if it was a gift transaction it would not get the buyers money back no matter if their was insurance or not.

Again, we are wasting our time here until we find out what kind of transaction this was, which I doubt we will.
 
craytab said:
In a gift transaction the insurance protects no one since there was no transaction.
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you keep saying "there was no transaction", you need to look up what the word transaction means. postal insurance has nothing to do with the paypal transaction
 
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