It's the 22nd!

[hunterjrg]

Hey all -
This thread has wandered around a bit, but I have been meaning to ask about post #40 from Bluemetalchurch. Specifically, the comment about the 3V versus 20CV steel...

I'm relatively new to the knife forums, learning about the different steels. Can someone help me with info on these two steels, and the merits of one versus the other in "a blade like the 5.1" Is there a S!K steel thread I should review?

Thanks,
TR

Browse the Survive website it explains some of the differences.

 

[TRfromMT]

Browse the Survive website it explains some of the differences.

Yep. I edited my original question - apparently just as you were responding - that said I have looked at S!K posted info. Just looking for real world, current/user experiences.

I am familiar with 1911 pistols, for example, where people nit-pick the slightest vague difference between X and Y, and the reality is the ordinary user will NEVER know the difference and will be perfectly happy with either one. I am expecting to be thrilled with my 5.1 20CV on order, but bluemetalchurch got me wondering why people have such strong preferences. Hoping others may chime in.

Thanks,
TR

 

[evltcat]

Plus, there are quite a few folks who have scored in the Monday sales. I'm thinking they are pretty happy with the model, and it's far from a failure.

I think all of us who frequent here are going to have to get prepared for the highs and lows (thrill of victory, agony of defeat ) that the Monday sales bring.

As far as a 'Go' option, a quick post rotated each week between the social media Survive! uses - Bladeforums - Instagram - Facebook - etc. would work. Simply state in the newsletter that this week the 'Go' post for the Monday sale will be posted at 'X' time period on 'X' social media site. For example, "This week the Monday Sale will occur late afternoon PST. The Go/Heads up/Announcement will be posted on the Survive! subforum of Bladeforums Then, immediately after listing the blades for sale on surviveknives.com, start a thread on the social media site that says, to the effect, Monday sale begins now!!!

That does a few things,

-builds demand for the newsletter that leads to educated customers
-builds following on the respective social media sites
-helps the customer narrow it down to one place to watch for the go
-gets everyone on the same page as to when is this happening/did this happen/did i miss it?

FWIW, I'm gonna chime in here that I agree with Hard Knocks's suggestion above.

I spend most of my time in the Busse sub, and pop over here quite often to catch up on the goings on, and look for info on availability of knives.
As Hard Knocks said in an earlier post, they have BF based sales called Ganzaaa's that can be BRUTAL to win a spot and score a knife. Some offerings are literally only 6 pieces, and "the describe the sale and rules in one post, then post a GO! and a SOLD OUT" model works pretty well and it's easy for folks to understand.

If you were to do a SK! version, I think that would help alleviate some of the frustration by letting people understand what's happening when, and most importantly, tell them when the sale is over.

I understand the frustrations. I missed out this week too... With a small company with a high quality, highly desired product at a reasonable price, you are not going to score what you want every time.

I'll be back on the SK! hunt next Monday... ---

 

[Hard Knocks]

As Hard Knocks said in an earlier post, they have BF based sales called Ganzaaa's that can be BRUTAL to win a spot and score a knife. Some offerings are literally only 6 pieces, and "the describe the sale and rules in one post, then post a GO! and a SOLD OUT" model works pretty well and it's easy for folks to understand.

Brutal is exactly the right word. :thumbup: The trough makes the Monday sales feel like an afternoon stroll by comparison.

 

[grogimus]

Brutal is exactly the right word.[emoji106]The trough makes the Monday sales feel like an afternoon stroll by comparison.

And it's a 'feature'. Just gotta put the right spin on it. The Survive! Piranha Pit or something.

 

[neil944]

Hey all -
This thread has wandered around a bit, but I have been meaning to ask about post #40 from Bluemetalchurch. Specifically, the comment about the 3V versus 20CV steel...

I'm relatively new to the knife forums, learning about the different steels. Can someone help me with info on these two steels, and the merits of one versus the other in "a blade like the 5.1" Is there a S!K steel thread I should review? I have read the info on S!K about these two steels. I get the corrosion resistance vs impact toughness trade off. I guess my question is how end users of these two would lean.

Thanks,
TR

For me, it was strictly about the corrosion resistance. I live about two blocks from the ocean and at my house EVERYTHING made of metal rusts. Doesn't matter how "stainless" it is.
With that in mind, 20CV was the only option, for me. My knives will sometimes go months at a time, sitting in the sheath not getting used. I didn't want to have to remember to re-oil the 3v periodically.
Before I got into Bark River and Survive knives I was a Spyderco Salt H-1 devotee (and still am, really).

I'm not going to use any of these hard enough for the toughness/edge holding to really make a big difference. If I lived in the woods, it may be a different story. But here on the coastal plains of TX, there's not a forest in sight!

 

[dogboye]

Not trying to get S!K to change, but suggesting another possibility. The "every 2 weeks" operation that is currently going on over at the Busse side. Instead of having months long pre-orders (or however long they go), have a pre-determined number of a particular knife you are planning to do for a "run." Post it up that pre-ordering is opening on a specific date, an will only be open until a specific date, or until the (unspecified but predetermined) number of knives are sold. Then you have a few number that you are trying to do from a pre-order, so that they can be delivered more quickly. Still pre-orders, but it should give you a little more breathing room. That way is sorta the middle ground. You could still have the Monday piranha pit (I like that!) for knives already made but unaccounted for. Anyway, just throwing that out.

Has it been determined that you, S!K, are completely going away from the pre-order option? Is the every Monday sales going to be the ONLY way to get a S!K knife? Because as I've alluded to before, I'm warming to the idea of pre-orders, even paying up front, and knowing that it will be months before I actually get the knife. Especially now that I know that it can be MONTHS before I get the knife.

 

[Hale Storm]

For me, it was strictly about the corrosion resistance. I live about two blocks from the ocean and at my house EVERYTHING made of metal rusts. Doesn't matter how "stainless" it is.
With that in mind, 20CV was the only option, for me. My knives will sometimes go months at a time, sitting in the sheath not getting used. I didn't want to have to remember to re-oil the 3v periodically.
Before I got into Bark River and Survive knives I was a Spyderco Salt H-1 devotee (and still am, really).

I'm not going to use any of these hard enough for the toughness/edge holding to really make a big difference. If I lived in the woods, it may be a different story. But here on the coastal plains of TX, there's not a forest in sight!

Same with me. 80 miles from the Gulf coast. 80%+ humidity here all the time. Plus, I sweat right through my clothes in the woods working in the summer time. For me, 20CV, M390, H1, etc. Or spend lots of time oiling down blades all the time. Hell, I've spot rusted a ZT0350 in S30V in my front pocket in one day out in the woods in August working.

 

[hunterjrg]

Yep. I edited my original question - apparently just as you were responding - that said I have looked at S!K posted info. Just looking for real world, current/user experiences.

I am familiar with 1911 pistols, for example, where people nit-pick the slightest vague difference between X and Y, and the reality is the ordinary user will NEVER know the difference and will be perfectly happy with either one. I am expecting to be thrilled with my 5.1 20CV on order, but bluemetalchurch got me wondering why people have such strong preferences. Hoping others may chime in.

Thanks,
TR

Love my 1911's too. Make sure you post a pic of your new 5.1 with your fav 1911

 

[Hale Storm]

This is how this all looks from my point of view: We are losing customers because they are frustrated that the knives are not readily available. "You should raise prices so that demand goes down." But that means we are losing customers because they are frustrated that they can't afford the knife. The other solution would be to lower our standard so we could make them fast enough to meet demand. But then we lose customers because the knives aren't as reliable.

No matter what we do, we are losing customers. So why not stick to our principles and do what we can to be the best we can be? I never said Monday releases was the end all answer to SURVIVE!'s problems. But it is an answer to Guy's problems. He is not going to be drained one day and start losing the passion. That happened back in 2013 with the business partner. We have been buried for 3 years and it has been exhausting. The idea for the Monday releases came about because morale was at an all time low and something needed to change. We have looked at all of these different options many times and we did not make this decision lightly. This is the decision where we can still live with ourselves at the end of the day. I completely understand the frustrations from people who have not been able to get one. All I can say is that it has only been two weeks, give it some time before writing the whole thing off as idiocy.

With all that being said, we do have an idea that would be a solution for this. I cannot provide details right now because it is in the VERY early stages. We will just have to wait (with all of our fingers and toes crossed) and see how it works out.

Again, I love you guys but how can you say raising prices will cause you to lose customers? Have you tried it and raised the prices? How can you "lose" a customer you can't get in the first place because you have nothing to sell them. There are customers out there that want to but cannot buy your knives at any price because there aren't any to buy. Secondly, and most importantly, the secondary market is getting all of those "lost" customers. I just bought an original 5 in 3V and an original 4.1 in M390. I paid 1-1/2 to 2 times the retail price for older model, used Survive!Knives. But I COULD buy them so I did. I would much rather buy them from YOU.

You just heard from a guy who went through this with someone with a small business. I went through it too. I kept prices low to have the best quality at the lowest price and get my name out there. It almost killed me working 100+ hours a week to meet demand and turning work away because there was no time to build anything else. As my reputation grew with my customer base, I raised my prices and now I only do limited work at a premium price. But I provide the highest quality I know how to build. Customers will pay a premium for high quality. That is proven all over the knife world.

Anyway, I've said enough. I'll try my GSO 5 (never owned that model before) and will love the 4.1. One member has agreed to sell me his new model 5.1 if I am not in love with the 5. Of course that IS this community and his generosity is over whelming to say the least.

So, S!K fans (especially my S!K brethren - you know who you are). GSO 5 and 4.1 on the way and a chance to get a new GSO 5.1. Life is good.

 

[Storm72]

Speaking Of Knives Being On The Way...

Anybody get their 2nds that were ordered last week on the 15th?

Any Delivered? Any Ship Notices? Any ETA's? Any Pics? Any Reviews? Any indications of why they were seconds?

We wants to know all!

 

[JustinFournier]

This is how this all looks from my point of view: We are losing customers because they are frustrated that the knives are not readily available. "You should raise prices so that demand goes down." But that means we are losing customers because they are frustrated that they can't afford the knife. The other solution would be to lower our standard so we could make them fast enough to meet demand. But then we lose customers because the knives aren't as reliable.

No matter what we do, we are losing customers.

Ok I see where we are both coming from now. My method of reaching price discovery was stated because I misunderstood your goals. I was pointing out, raise prices, sell less knives, get them out faster, make same amount of money, work less, have more life. I apologize for that. In my mind there is more than one type of customer. Potential customers, preferable customers and premium customers, loyal customers, needs based customers, discount customers, you can't win them all over. Like you said, no matter what you do, you are going to make someone unhappy. It's just a matter of WHO you make unhappy. You have to pick which customers you want to be dealing with and cater to them.

It's the good, fast, cheap triangle. You can have any 2, but never all 3. So I would say you guys are going for Good and Cheap. Nothing wrong with that. It's just not for the people who want good and fast.

Guy has said before he wants a premium product, at an affordable price. If that is his goal, you are meeting those goals. The crazy long hours to keep the lights on, the sacrifice of a personal life. That's a consequence of this business plan. Nothing wrong with that, you guys are right on track.

Again I apologize for making my suggestion out of place. In my mind, when I am old and looking back at my life, I will be saying "I wish I spent more time with my son." I won't ever say, I wish I spent more night's at the office. I forget that not everyone thinks like that.

I guess the people who feel really upset are reacting to the perceived rejection they feel. They will get over it

Wish you all the best!!

 

[riverstalker]

Congratulations on your wedding Elli & Guy, have a knife marriage !

 

[TRfromMT]

thanks all for the replies on the 3V vs 20CV. I am happy with 20CV as my choice. I didn't know much about it before making my pick, I just thought I'd prefer SS over Carbon steel so I don't have to deal with the possibility of corrosion. Now I'm just waiting for the thing to show up - and we all know day's can't go by fast enough for mail call....

 

[Hard Knocks]

Hey TR, type into google something like '3v vs 20cv bladeforums' or some variations thereof. It'll probably give you more reading than you want, lol. There's a lot of good being said about the 20cv, though. I think you'll be happy with it.

 

[TRfromMT]

Hey TR, type into google something like '3v vs 20cv bladeforums' or some variations thereof. It'll probably give you more reading than you want, lol. There's a lot of good being said about the 20cv, though. I think you'll be happy with it.

Yep. Burned a good hour or so doing just that. :thumbup:

TR

 

[Bones_IV]

Speaking Of Knives Being On The Way...

Anybody get their 2nds that were ordered last week on the 15th?

Any Delivered? Any Ship Notices? Any ETA's? Any Pics? Any Reviews? Any indications of why they were seconds?

We wants to know all!

Nope not yet. Order page says Awaiting Fulfillment. It will get here eventually but I'm just happy to be on the list. You folks will know when I know.

 

[Storm72]

Ok. Good to know. I was under the impression they were already sharpened and ready to assemble - pack and ship.

 

[Bones_IV]

Ok. Good to know. I was under the impression they were already sharpened and ready to assemble - pack and ship.

I think that is the case from what Ellie said. But I know they are working on getting the regular 3V 5.1s up to spec and out the door, so the 2nds might not be at the top of the list. Lots of those other 5.1s are pre-sale and whatnot. I just ordered mine on the 15th-- those pre-sale folks have been waiting far longer so if they are higher up on the priority list I get that. Even if the factory 2nd blades are done the assembly, packing, and shipping takes time away from getting the pre-sale knives done. It will get here eventually-- didn't expect it to be super fast.

 

[DISC0]

Speaking Of Knives Being On The Way...

Anybody get their 2nds that were ordered last week on the 15th?

Any Delivered? Any Ship Notices? Any ETA's? Any Pics? Any Reviews? Any indications of why they were seconds?

We wants to know all!

Just checked my order status and it has changed to awaiting shipment. So shouldn't be to long now.