I've lost respect for Rick Hinderer.

[Jared P]

Did Rick ever SAY the mid-techs would be $300 , or is that what someone (OP) FELT they should pay for one.

I feel I should be able to buy a new Ducati Monster for $5K , but it aint gonna happen

No, and that was my point. He never said it, but the perception was doing mid-techs will mean more knives, better price. I TOTALLY agree that's not implied, I'm just saying I understand how that perception could come into to being.t

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Perception. Whose perception? In this case, the perception of someone more concerned with his own luck running out, his own failure to buy before the price went up, than with the realities of the market.

In the perception of those familiar with what it takes to achieve Rick's standing, this move was overdue. The misunderstanding in the original post was due to ignorance, not perception.

 

[Jared P]

Perception. Whose perception? In this case, the perception of someone more concerned with his own luck running out, his own failure to buy before the price went up, than with the realities of the market.

In the perception of those familiar with what it takes to achieve Rick's standing, this move was overdue. The misunderstanding in the original post was due to ignorance, not perception.

I'm not defending his tone or thoughts, I'm really not. I bet you would agree though that if he had said man I'm bummed, I had hoped the Hinderer mid-techs would cost less, this would be a different thread. That's part of my point, I can SEE why he would have hoped they would be less, but I also fully understand why the cost what they do. I also disagree that the perception is ignorance, I can completely understand how it was developed, even if I don't agree with it.

 

[severedthumbs]

I wish Les Robertson would drop in here. He has very sage advice on makers that raise their prices to match the secondary market. Come on Les drop some knowledge on us.

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

good news is , not all makers listen to Les

 

[RogerP]

If you don't like a maker's prices--don't buy the knife. Simple.

If you make a statement about someone's honesty on the forums -- you'd better be able to back it up. The definition of libel is that it defames, damages, and is published (i.e. seen by more than 2 people). So if you say something bad about someone on here this is not true, you should be prepared to defend your accusation in a court of law--because there are people in this world that will put you in a courtroom and make you prove your statements.

I feel the opening line for this thread is simply reckless, irresponsible, and potentially damaging. The poster's mother obviously never told them that if you can't say something nice you should simply keep your mouth shut.

And finally if you have such opinions about anyone you should have the balls to put your real name with it.

Just my opinion of course.

As for Rick, in my contacts with him I've found him honorable and a damn nice guy--and deserving of praise rather than assault.

Bruce Voyles

Amen to all of that.

Roger

 

[severedthumbs]

good news is , not all makers listen to Les

well JTW we can do with out your biased opinion here. Fact is Les is a wealth of knowledge and one of the more successful custom knife dealers in the world. He didn't reach the level of success by accident. So maybe you and others should listen when he shares his knowledge with us.

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

I am sure he is a wealth of knowledge , I was just stating that not all share his opinions and views that's all . This is after talking to quite a few makers .

One person's views do not change the world.

Giraffe bone anyone ?

 

[wolfmann601]

I am looking for a specific Hinderer knife, if I find it for sale I will pay whatever the seller asks. If he wants $2000 and I really really want the knife then the knife worth $2000, to me.


And for the record; Rick is one of the nicest guys around and he is loaded with integrity and credibility......................................and makes awesome knives.

 

[RogerP]

I am sure he is a wealth of knowledge , I was just stating that not all share his opinions and views that's all . This is after talking to quite a few makers .

One person's views do not change the world.

Giraffe bone anyone ?

I can't think of any one person whose views are shared by everyone, can you? It's hardly a revelation that not everyone shares Les' opinions. That doesn't mean his opnions aren't valued by a great many people. They are certainly valued by me.

Roger

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

Understood Roger , however , I doubt Les is going to say anything that is going to make Rick change his pricing and way of doing business , do you ?

What Rick is doing , is working for him , who are we to tell him otherwise ?

Keep on , keepin on Rick.

 

[severedthumbs]

Understood Roger , however , I doubt Les is going to say anything that is going to make Rick change his pricing and way of doing business , do you ?

What Rick is doing , is working for him , who are we to tell him otherwise ?

Keep on , keepin on Rick.

perhaps a history lesson is in order.

 

[Kevin Jones]

perhaps a history lesson is in order.

severed, you really have a knack for ruining a thread.

 

[RogerP]

Understood Roger , however , I doubt Les is going to say anything that is going to make Rick change his pricing and way of doing business , do you ?
What Rick is doing , is working for him , who are we to tell him otherwise ?

Keep on , keepin on Rick.

I really wouldn't know one way or the other - I don't know Rick. And more to the point, I don't know what Les' take on this speific circumstance would be, should he choose to offer it. But what that has to do with whether Les could make a valuable contribution to the discussion - which is all that really was suggested - escapes me quite completely.

And just so we're real clear - I have by no means commented on Rick's business practices one way or the other - apart from pointing out that the OP's claims of "deceptive sneakiness" were completely unwarranted. I certainly have not suggested that should do anything other than what he is doing.

You seem to be assuming what Les' advice / input WOULD be, were he to give it. And you seem to wish to diminish the value of such advice. I really don't know why.

Roger

 

[severedthumbs]

severed, you really have a knack for ruining a thread.

??? Sorry that reality ruins threads for you KJ.

KJ i think Ricks knives are priced right in line with their value now. Before they were quite underpriced. Sorry if I didnt make that point clear before. I am not in regards to Rick with my comment but all knives in general.

I am hoping for Les to share the history knowledge with us of makers that over estimate the value of their knives and price according to the extremely over inflated secondary. And hopefully Les offer his advice for how makers should handle pricing their knives when the secondary goes insane for their wares.

 

[Les Robertson]

Im not exactly sure what Rick is doing and/or what the problem is with his pricing structure.

I have known Rick for 15 years. He is an honorable man who for the most part seems to have spent a large portion of his life helping others.

For the most part it works to the determent of makers to chase aftermarket prices. As eventually they will level off and then drop.

Lorien mentioned Ken Onion and Ernie Emerson, both very successful businessmen. Held their retail prices in check while the aftermarket prices went through the roof. Today those collectors who paid the top level aftermarket prices have knives that they will never get their money out of...perhaps that is not important. Perhaps as Wolfman wrote they wanted the knife, they paid the price.

Ken and Ernie kept their retail prices in check and have never had a problem selling every knife they make.

The majority of the "hot" makers or "up and comers" are generally building relatively few knives...30 or less. Initially they put a huge amount of hours in their knives...and sell them relatively cheap. Wise collectors see the potential, buy them and order several more.

The maker is of course happy to get the orders and agrees to build them. Then, in some cases, the buyer starts to sell the knives at a profit on the Internet...building demand among fellow forumites. The fellow fourmites try to order from the maker, but early adopters placing orders, combined with the maker building very few knives pushes the wait time to a point where the buyer would rather purchase the knife in the aftermarket. Then the frenzy begins...driving the prices in the aftermarket up.

I would think it would be a great temptation for the maker to want to raise their prices. The new maker not understanding how the aftermarket works may not see the pitfalls in this approach and start to raise the prices.

As long as the maker is content with making 20 -30 knives a year it won't be a problem. HOwever, when the knives are selling so well, the thought of Full-Time maker enters the mind. Being a part time maker or hobby maker is completely different from being a full time maker.

Consequently, more knives have to be made, the demand is met a little quicker, the prices start to drop in the aftermarket as the demand gets met. It is almost impossible for the maker to go back on their prices. As you can imagine this does not build good will with his clients.

Rick, if not in reality is in name a full time maker. He has to pay his bills with the money he makes from selling knives. It is a business...a concept foreign to many knife makers. On top of that he will put military, fire and LEOs to the front of the list.

My experience has taught me that those who squeal the loudest are those who want the knife not to use/carry, but to sell for a profit and make some money.

Severed and Roger, thank you for the kind words.

John, Popularity contests are for beauty pageants and politicians. Neither one really contributes anything of substance to society.

 

[Kohai999]

....
I am hoping for Les to share the history knowledge with us of makers that over estimate the value of their knives and price according to the extremely over inflated secondary. And hopefully Les offer his advice for how makers should handle pricing their knives when the secondary goes insane for their wares.

That would be an answer from Les that I would be very interested in.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi STeven,

If I didn't answer your question(s) let me know and I will try and do a better job.

 

[severedthumbs]

Les you answered and stated what I was hoping you would. Thanks for that!!!

Now hopefully some people will read it carefully. There is a lot of knowledge that was dropped in that post.

Thanks Les!!!

 

[T.K.C.]

I am looking for a specific Hinderer knife, if I find it for sale I will pay whatever the seller asks. If he wants $2000 and I really really want the knife then the knife worth $2000, to me.


And for the record; Rick is one of the nicest guys around and he is loaded with integrity and credibility......................................and makes awesome knives.

Agreed!!!! :thumbup: