Just ordered a Ganzo g710

HappyDaddy said:
Either you support thieves or you don't. It really isn't any more complicated than that.
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It is nice to see that we have members who try to be righteous individuals. Kind of refreshing in this day and age.

However, if it really is as simple as you claim, then the owner of blade forums is supporting thieves if he has ANY connections with ANY KNIFE DEALER that sells copies, clones, etc., or any knife that is patterned after another, when royalties to the rightful designer or owner have not been paid, when possible. If the owner of BF.com is guilty, then any of us that use these forums are indirectly supporting thieves. Especially those of us that are paying members. It really isn't any more complicated than that.

Let's look at it from a different angle, shall we? I own two SAK clones. I use the term clone instead of counterfeit only because they are not marked as Victorinox knives. Under your logic, I support thieves because I own two clones. If you want to feel that way, go for it. But, before you judge me, take note that I did not purchase these knives. They were gifts. Gifts from someone that I had just been introduced to and he gave me these knives at the beginning of our friendship.

Now, if I had taken the stance that my friend supported thievery, then I should have refused his gifts and the friendship would have gone no further. However, they were accepted graciously and we now have a solid friendship. My friend is now collecting Victorinox Alox knives and has a Wenger Standard Issue as his EDC. I have not heard or seen any evidence of my friend buying counterfeits for over a year but, his collection of genuine Victorinox knives is rapidly growing.

I can't help but question if taking a severe, hard-nose stand on every copy and clone thread posted here is to the benefit of the membership. You would think that trying to find common ground and going from there would lead to better relations and more members. Take note that I said copy and clone, not counterfeit.

It seems to me that many members here are trying to regulate the conscience and morality of others. It did not work with alcohol during prohibition and it will not work now.
 
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benzy2 said:
Please feel free to tell explain it. Are you saying Pfizer is getting paid when Mylan sells a bottle of Atorvastatin?
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my only rebuttal is, why are you trying to correlate something you don't even understand as your argument?
 
I've not made that argument. I've argued the logic that those trashing Ganzo make is irrational. My point is to either hate them for laws they break (which I don't think they do), hate them for using ideas they didn't invent (which I think everyone is guilty of in the knife world), or hate them because you simply are emotional against them, but be upfront about it.

I don't think they are breaking laws, so I don't honestly see a problem there. I don't see a moral objection because everyone is using someone else's ideas in some way or another. And I don't emotionally hate them. I have no problem if they aren't legally allowed to sell in the US because they would infringe on patents. I have no issue going after those who break the law. But as long as they aren't selling direct to the US I also don't see a reason to hate the company. It's no more crooked than any other reverse engineered product fighting to the lowest price point.

For the record, I've never bought a Ganzo knife and I doubt I ever do. If someone else, especially in another country has desire for one, I'm also not going to rail them for buying from a dirty company.
 
benzy2 said:
I've not made that argument. I've argued the logic that those trashing Ganzo make is irrational. My point is to either hate them for laws they break (which I don't think they do), hate them for using ideas they didn't invent (which I think everyone is guilty of in the knife world), or hate them because you simply are emotional against them, but be upfront about it.

I don't think they are breaking laws, so I don't honestly see a problem there. I don't see a moral objection because everyone is using someone else's ideas in some way or another. And I don't emotionally hate them. I have no problem if they aren't legally allowed to sell in the US because they would infringe on patents. I have no issue going after those who break the law. But as long as they aren't selling direct to the US I also don't see a reason to hate the company. It's no more crooked than any other reverse engineered product fighting to the lowest price point.

For the record, I've never bought a Ganzo knife and I doubt I ever do. If someone else, especially in another country has desire for one, I'm also not going to rail them for buying from a dirty company.
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Tu quoque. "Everyone does it, so that makes it morally okay."
 
benzy2 said:
What is wrong about it? Be specific.


The point is either everyone is wrong in that case or no one. I honestly don't care which as long as we hold everyone equally accountable.
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Everyone lies, does that mean it's morally acceptable for me to start a G,B&U thread accusing you of stealing a knife from me? Would you give me a pass because everyone lies, or would you seek out and punish all the liars the same way you would me?
 
palonej said:
Good point Mo.
There was a thread recently where a member was stating his clone did everything the original did. He also stated the company selling the original was robbing people because if Gonzo can sell it for $16.99 so can the maker of the original.
How do you deal with these dip sticks?? Just pisses me off how someone can be so incredibly narrow minded.
Joe
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. Hah ha aaa ahaahhahhahhaaaahaaaaaaa
The ganzo I have looks really awesome but the bumper of by 93 suburban holds a better edge
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Everyone lies, does that mean it's morally acceptable for me to start a G,B&U thread accusing you of stealing a knife from me? Would you give me a pass because everyone lies, or would you seek out and punish all the liars the same way you would me?
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Youre trying to mix morals and laws and point that one should ignore the other. If you told me it was warm and sunny when it was cold and cloudy I would take you as a liar and move on. If you were to falsify a theft, which is illegal, id call you a liar and hope the full extent of the law be used against you for your crime. I've never suggested we let an illegal action go unpunished. I've never suggested otherwise. I've stated where not illegal, there's no difference using an Axis lock vs a frame lock or any other lock legally. People have no issues using a non-patented lock and find it morally ok. If thats the case, how is it morally wrong to use a non-patented lock (in a non-US country)? Is it not the same thing? Do you check for foregin patents before you buy any imported item to assure you aren't breaking some moral code somewhere in the world?
 
benzy2 said:
What is wrong about it? Be specific.


The point is either everyone is wrong in that case or no one. I honestly don't care which as long as we hold everyone equally accountable.
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so now I have to be specific when you are the one trying to argue your point without any reasonable reason why. I'll give you a trophy for trying.
 
Mo2 said:
so now I have to be specific when you are the one trying to argue your point without any reasonable reason why. I'll give you a trophy for trying.
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Once again you've made no argument but "You're wrong". You present no argument to back your thoughts. I'll give you a trophy for deflecting issues you have no logical reasoning behind.
 
powernoodle said:
A+ on that. People love to meddle in other people's business. It make the meddlers feel superior.

The complaints would be valid if there was even one example in the history of mankind of Benchmade losing one sale because someone bought a Ganzo. But that just is not the case. Ganzo does not make counterfeit Benchmades. Ganzo makes cheap lookalikes with cheap blade steel for $20, which have no bearing whatsoever on Benchmade's $165 overpriced Rift. And I own 2x of the latter, btw, plus a ton of other Benchmades and a few Ganzos.

If Ganzo made an actual counterfeit Rift that said Benchmade on it, and stole sales from Benchmade, that would a civil wrong. But they don't. Ganzo does not steal sales from Benchmade, and so all the bluster in this thread is misplaced. And irrespective of that, the same people in this thread trying to tell everyone else how to live are the same ones who would recoil at a politician or loudmouth do-gooder telling them how to live. "Don't tell me I can't buy that gun, but I'll tell you not to buy that knife."

Come on, now.
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Come on now what? The political comparison is laughable and at best out of place.

Is it so hard to realize what these counterfeiters do to actual respectable knife companies? Go ask Benchmade or spyderco if they think these garbage counterfeiters hurt their bottom line. I'll clue you in, they do....

And when you copy a patented technology, advertise it as the same thing, and sell it as the same thing, that is a counterfeit move. Point blank. Even if you change your ways you still did it. That counts. Ganzo is a counterfeiter. Should I quote the opinion of this forum on the subject? Seems some folks are incapable of understanding.

How this is lost on some folks, even long time members, is shocking.
 
Angus McGunnigle said:
. Hah ha aaa ahaahhahhahhaaaahaaaaaaa
The ganzo I have looks really awesome but the bumper of by 93 suburban holds a better edge
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Hey Angus!!! Don't trifle with those Subaru bumpers brother!!!! They are using M390 now!!!
[emoji51][emoji51][emoji51][emoji51]
Joe
 
I bet that the poor Neanderthal who first knapped that first sliver of flint (and cut his finger for that "eureka" moment) is turning in his grave that all these Knifemakers stole his idea...

I have to say that I won a Ganzo on a Knife forum competition and had no experience of them as a company and their "plagiarism" whatsoever.

http://edgematters.uk/thread/5784-fast-dirty-comp/

(some fast googling won the day there)

The fit and finish is spot on and it sits in my first aid kit in my car. It is my first experience with the "Axis" lock as well.

Having had it for a while I have been tempted to buy a BM with the same lock...

I have no dog in this fight but I truly believe it is up to the individual to make their own judgment when it comes down to the wire on this one...

Buy it or don't...:rolleyes:
 
benzy2 said:
Youre trying to mix morals and laws and point that one should ignore the other. If you told me it was warm and sunny when it was cold and cloudy I would take you as a liar and move on. If you were to falsify a theft, which is illegal, id call you a liar and hope the full extent of the law be used against you for your crime. I've never suggested we let an illegal action go unpunished. I've never suggested otherwise. I've stated where not illegal, there's no difference using an Axis lock vs a frame lock or any other lock legally. People have no issues using a non-patented lock and find it morally ok. If thats the case, how is it morally wrong to use a non-patented lock (in a non-US country)? Is it not the same thing? Do you check for foregin patents before you buy any imported item to assure you aren't breaking some moral code somewhere in the world?
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Ah, so you do seem to grasp that there are varying degrees of severity with which one can perform certain morally wrong actions! It's morally wrong to profit off the work of others without investing anything of your own. Ganzo does that both by using patented technology and by blatantly copying designs. As I've consistently maintained, not all legal acts are moral and not all moral acts are legal. As for foreign patents I don't check on them, and I think ignorance of their practices is a totally acceptable reason to have purchased one of their clones, but I would, once made aware, seek out a product that was not using others intellectual property.
 
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powernoodle said:
A+ on that. People love to meddle in other people's business. It make the meddlers feel superior.

The complaints would be valid if there was even one example in the history of mankind of Benchmade losing one sale because someone bought a Ganzo. But that just is not the case. Ganzo does not make counterfeit Benchmades. Ganzo makes cheap lookalikes with cheap blade steel for $20, which have no bearing whatsoever on Benchmade's $165 overpriced Rift. And I own 2x of the latter, btw, plus a ton of other Benchmades and a few Ganzos.

If Ganzo made an actual counterfeit Rift that said Benchmade on it, and stole sales from Benchmade, that would a civil wrong. But they don't. Ganzo does not steal sales from Benchmade, and so all the bluster in this thread is misplaced. And irrespective of that, the same people in this thread trying to tell everyone else how to live are the same ones who would recoil at a politician or loudmouth do-gooder telling them how to live. "Don't tell me I can't buy that gun, but I'll tell you not to buy that knife."

Come on, now.
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This is a terrible analogy, come on now. Is anyone here passing legislation that no one can buy a Ganzo? There are at least a dozen recommendation threads a day, some of which I've seen you participate in, and all we are doing there is telling people explicitly what knives to buy and what knives not to buy. In your analogy that makes the recommendations just as bad as legislating that everyone own a Para 2.
 
Found this elsewhere and thought I'd share.

sal said:
Hi *******,

We spend hundreds of thousands of dollars every year to try to stop counterfeits. Dollars that our customer ends up paying for in the prodeuct because thieves are stealing our company, products, designs, trademarks, etc. By supporting them, you hurt us.

sal
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The fact of the matter is, is that if Ganzo was an American Company, they would have been sued into non-existance by a number of knife manufactures a long time ago.

They would lose every case against them.

That tells me two things, they violate something that we need to take more seriously, and that's the protection of ideas.
Not "vague" ideas, like a drop point blade, but direct copies and exact cloning of an existing product.

I think that's black and white enough for everyone to be able to distinguish between.

Protecting idea's from DIRECT copy helps innovation, nobody wants to design something that can be copied almost immediately without a monetary agreement or penalty.

Why put money into R&D?

Even if you don't care about any of this and just have to have your cheap clone, maybe think of the people who actually put together that piece of junk, what they're getting paid, and the conditions and terms they work under.
Maybe that reason is a better one to not buy these knives......
 
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I've found that people either have a moral compass that I respect, or they don't. I've also found that I have little to no success in trying to adjust someone else's moral compass. Putting money in the till of those who steal the work of others is unambiguously wrong, but those of you with broken compasses aren't going to see that, no matter how hard we try to convince you.
 
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