Kali done with Khukri's

I know Bob; me too.
I like my Tora khuk. It never occured to me the owner of the company might show up and tell everyone HI was inferior to it, though. There is nothing there to suggest this is so. I couldn't let that go unanswered, as others have pointed out, not to convince HI's large consumer base, for there is no need, but for any of the uninitated in BF who might read this thread. I hope Tora continues to pursue khuks, and stops making foolish boasts.


munk
 
I think any one who wades through the cesspool of this thread is going to come out of it with more questions about Tora than HI. It did not have to be that way. A lot of sword guys object to the authenticity of HI's swords, especially the Everest Katana. Very few, if any, will tell you they don't think they are capable of hard use though. I have seen many threads where they were recommended for those reasons, in response to someone looking for a user quality sword.
 
On the HI forum (decried by some of Simon's supporters as biased), I too reviewed a Tora khukuri favorably -- one of two that I purchased directly from Tora.

I doubt that there will be a third. But I have never been fond of "attack ads."
 
As of the time of this post,
this is how the initial post in question, in part, reads [w/ my bold]:

"Also its important to use kukri that are authentic in manufacture,
things to look out for in a poorley made kukri, are;
1/ To staight a handle
2/ Habaki bolster
3/ Cho creep
4/ Too thick a spine
5/ To rounded a point

Pics below, the top one is very poorly made modern kukri, the bottom one is a good quality authentic modern kukri ......"


So I understand better after Simon's followups
that he indeed considers HI khuks to be
poorly made, low quality, bad kukris

on the basis of:

Degree of Quality == Authenticity (Real-ness) == Replication/Cloning of historic blade designs


I see this as a very similar attitude/position that katana devotees embrace.

Simply stated, they say something like:

"""It's a katana/khukuri-Like-Object unworthy of the name;
so please give it another name."""

"""It lacks/has a, b, c / x, y, z
therefore it does not fall within the definition of the style."""

"""You want to practice katana/khukuri style martial art?
Please, please buy the real thing, not junk."""


There is generally no argument/reasoning that can change that stance.
And there is potentially good argument for accepting that stance;
at least if one is not willing to add further distinctions re design variation.

I'd rather make distinctions.

Put up a -long- detailed timeline showing katana or khuk styles
(or bowie knives, or Chinese style swords, or ??? )
and find what changes occuring as needs/reasons arise.

Tourists & other cultural happenings influence the blade styles/designs.

I -do- try to distinguish between design changes on the basis of 'intent'.
But that's me.

For example, as far as real/old WW era blades go,
I've always thought of --them-- as 'less than authentic khukuris'.
But some of them I own & enjoy.

I wish I could afford many Khukuris from historic periods
prior to British influence.
Nothing wrong with British,
just that that was the greatest cultural influence
in Nepal/India in recent times of which I'm aware.

So......... where-ever you go ...... there you are.

--------------------------------------------------
Simon,
I think you could have easily chosen another example
of a (in your terms) 'bad' khuk,
unless of course you really did want to put down HI.
Which I suppose you did at some level,
because you seem to see the HI khuks the same way
a katana devotee percieves the Himalayan-katana.
Not real; something else.

I no longer take offense at your first post.
Although I can't agree with it on any level,
I understand it.

I think you're a good guy
(but, as with us all, biased in our own ways)
and a good resource for certain information
in our areas of common interest.

Be well.



~
~~~~~~~~~
<> THEY call me 'Dean' :)-fYI-fWiW-iIRC-JMO-M2C-YMMV-TiA-YW-GL-HH-HBd-IBSCUtWS-theWotBGUaDUaDUaD
<> Tips <> Baha'i Prayers Links --A--T--H--D
 
Sirupate said:
...The way I interperate authenticity, is a basically two fold, the design and the way they are made, if both of those are correct then to me its authentic.
Click to expand...
Who decides if the design is correct and what criteria is being used? It seems you are picking khukuris made at one point in history and used by soldiers as authentic. As noted the basic design is very old, plus this style of reasoning in general doesn't lead to quality blades. Try it with the current western knives for example and you get really low end blades.

Several of the kamis working for HI have also introduced new models, the Kobra for example, is this an "authentic" khukuri? I can't see how you can argue it isn't because it is different than a model at some point in time as by the same logic you can prevent any evolution of the design and have to go back to its roots which look nothing like the blades you offer or any modern khukuri.

... was generaly used for heavy duty work.
Click to expand...
Well this is kind of the point being made, that there are utility based designs and they are as authentic as ones made for martial purposes. One of the problems I see with your arguement is that I recall problems with several of the designs due to incompatability with western vs nepal in regards to average size.

The average male over here is bigger and this causes some problems with some of the 15" models for example to have cramped grips, however this wasn't solved by changing the design but simply offering other knives which is why the 18" ones were usually heavily recommended so I don't see the design actually moving in general away from what they naturally make.


-Cliff
 
Funny one should mention Japanse swords. At one time, long, long ago, they had no curve. Does some school of thought regard curved Japanese swords as "poorly made." I never found that view, but perhaps it exists. Equally, are Buke-zukuri mountings for a Japanese sword regarded as "poorly made" because they differ so markedly from the earlier style of mountings? I merely see a difference.

What makes one an arbiter of style so that one can declare a difference in style = "poorly made" instead of differently made?
 
I thinK THE PROBLEM here is most of the posters have only handled HI kukri & Indian lion heads, & HAVENT HANDLED tORA KUKRIS!

TORA HAVE A QUALITY THAT LEAVES THE 5 HI KUKRIS I OWN IN THE DIRT!

BELIVE IT BOYS!

ALL YOU KNIFEMAKERS ALRAEDY KNOW, HABAKI BOLSTERS HIDE TANGS NOT RICASSOS, THATS A WEAKNESS OR AT LEAST A POOR QUALITY SHORTCUT!

IF YOU READ YOUR OLD THREAD YOU WILL SEE YVSA HAS SAID IT IN COMPLAINT MANY TIMES.

THATS WHY HE IS NOT COMMENTING HERE, HE KNOWS BETTER & ISNT A HIPPOCRATE.

IF YOU HAVE EVER FORGED OR GROUND METAL YOU KNOW THE ROUNDED 45% DEGREE POINT IS QUICKER TO MAKE THAN A POINT & IT TAKES SKILL TO BEAT THE METAL THINNER WITHOUT ERRORS.

& STRAIGHT HANDLES ARE NOT ERGONOMIC! HANDLE A FEW ANTIQUES [OR TORA.} & YOU WILL SEE THE DIFFERANCE!

I HAVE 102 ANTIQUE KUKRI, 5 HI, 7 TORA & A FEW MODERN TOURISTS,


NEPALI TOURIST KUKRI YOU CAN BUY ONLINE FROM ANY KUKRI HOUSE IN NEPAL, THEY ARE THE SAME AS HI BUT HI ARE POLISHED MORE!

THATS ALL! {PLUS TIME SAVING HABAKIS ETC.}

BUT MUST SAY THE ROUGHFEST TOURIST SCABBARD IS NORMALY A BETTER FIT & HAS A LOOP OR BLUNT TO STOP THE FROG SLIDING INTO THE WRONG POSITION.

THIS IS ALL FACTS!

BUT HEY YOU WANT TO SPLIT LOGS, BUY HI! THEY LOOK NICER THAN AN AXE!

HI ARE TIME SAVING TOURISTS KUKIS THAT THEN HAVE THE TIME PUT ON A MACHINE BUFFER TO SHINE THEM UP FOR THE AMERICAN MARKET.

AND AS MUNK POINTS OUT HI MAKE MANY TENS OF THOUSANDS OF KUKRI, WHEARAS TORA MAKE HUNDREDS, PERHAPS THATS WHY TORA ARE HIGHER QUALITy!

MAKES SENSE!

KL.
 
kukrilove said:
....HI ARE TIME SAVING TOURISTS KUKIS THAT THEN HAVE THE TIME PUT ON A MACHINE BUFFER TO SHINE THEM UP FOR THE AMERICAN MARKET...
Click to expand...
It is too bad Bill was not around, as the level of absurdity in the above is so high it moves from beyond being insulting to parody. Some comments you need to address as it is possible they are misleading, some are so ridiculus that it is hard to make them look any worse.

-cLifF
 
Cheers, Love.

Try something different. Read the above posts, including those by Simon. Several of us own Tora khukuris and think well of them. Some of us own many martial khukuri. We just don't confuse differences in style with poor quality. Simon has clarified his position, with which most here respectfully do not agree, but then you let go with another rant.

Love, whoever you are, what do you have against Tora? Why are you trying to wreck Tora's reputation by associating your outrageous statements with that firm? Why are you trying so had to undo Leanne's efforts here?

Tell you what, want to sell those "trash" HI's you claim that you own? To be fair, send pictures first to my email account available here.

We shall see what we shall see.


And don't presume to speak for Yvsa. He can speak quite well for himself -- when he stops grinding his teeth.
 
People who shout unproven assertions in upper case letters are what they are- loud.

If the 'habaki' bolster found on some HI khuks is a problem, there would have been failures. People who know me know I am very hard on all my khuks. Where is the failure? Doesn't exist. Every mechanical decision in any design has potential problems. Saying the habaki bolster is problem without any evidence is like saying the wings of a plane bare the stress and therefore wings are bad for airplanes. That really depends upon who put the plane together, doesn't it? The head of HI Kamis has made blades for the King of Nepal. Tora has made blades for Kukriluv.

But Tora Shills can claim what they like- reality is no problem for them, they make it up as they go along. Further responses to the same old lame claims would give them encouragment- as if their opinions had any validity.

Tora blades have been reviewed. There was no evidence of structural or cosmetic superiority, in fact, in a hand picked selection from Simon himself I found the Tora blade below HI in blade fit and finish. Perhaps after Tora has sold 20,000 blades with HI's extreme low failure rate we can compare apples to apples. That's assuming Tora will remain in business.

I like my Tora blade- it is a good one. It chops and holds an edge, and balances well. It does not do any of these things 'better' than HI, however.

munk
 
I am now totally turned off by Tora and its practices along with the many faces of Simon. Also, the tasteless timing of attacks on Himalayan Imports now that Simon knows of the passing of Bladeforums.com very well loved and respected Uncle Bill, I really doubt you would have done this if Uncle Bill was still here, this shows your true character...Simon et all manyfaces of Simon you are nothing but a TROLL
 
kukrilove said:
AND AS MUNK POINTS OUT HI MAKE MANY TENS OF THOUSANDS OF KUKRI, WHEARAS TORA MAKE HUNDREDS, PERHAPS THATS WHY TORA ARE HIGHER QUALITy!

MAKES SENSE!

KL.
Click to expand...

Considering that HI has been in business for over 15 years, its not surprising that there are thousands of HI khukuris out there. I'm sure that in 15 years Tora will have thousands of khukuris made itself, assuming that people like you don't drive it to an early grave.

Bob
 
Big Bob;

You and I have been on the same page- not wanting to see Tora hurt. When Simon started his business up, he came to HI. He wanted publicity and he wanted international notice. We saw no reason there could not be more good khuks in this world; we like khuks. Many of us reviewed Tora blades and were fair and favorable.

Simon posted here a list of 'characteristics of poorly made khuks' and used HI as a whipping boy. What he didn't reveal was immediately afterwards he then established a thread on his own Tora forum to watch the fireworks, complete with a link to this thread in BF. He did this calculatedly and deliberately. Even as Leanne was requesting peace, Bless her, he'd already set this in motion. Tora forum has had a good laugh about it- all three or four members. He'd set the bait and they sat back to watch and keep the pot stirred. All this while you and I, BigBob, and many others, were attempting to find common ground.

I am posting this now so any reader of this thread will know and make up his own mind.


munk
 
munk said:
... . He'd set the bait and they sat back to watch and keep the pot stirred.
Click to expand...
This pretty much defines TROLL and the consequences should be straightforward.

-Cliff
 
kukrilove said:
. . . TORA HAVE A QUALITY THAT LEAVES THE 5 HI KUKRIS I OWN IN THE DIRT! . . .
Click to expand...

Let me relieve you of having to look at those five "inauthentic, poorly made" HI khukris. I'll buy them.

I'm serious.

Puts you out of your misery with having them around, and allows you to firmly concentrate on the "Path of the One True Kukri."

I'm not kidding, or being facetious.

And I am content to exist in my uninformed, unenlightened state with respect to Nepalese edged weapons.

Semper Fi,

Noah
 
After reading all this attack stuff, I think I will vote with my wallet and avoid Simon's Tora khuks like the plague. Not to say the they aren't a good product but I have better uses for my money than supporting someone who makes unwarranted attacks.

Ice
 
I bought my first Kukri from HI in 1995. An 18" WW2, in 2004 I bought my second 18" WW2. Here are a few picks of both.

The top one is the 1995 verson
07_11_2.jpg


The 2004 verson with a torn edge from cutting down a small fir tree

07_11_4.jpg


I love the Khuk I bought from Bill in 1995. But to be honest the newer model sucks azz. It's obvious to QC has slipped over the years. horrible blade shape, little to no temper in the edge, handle is 50% bigger than it should be. The sheath doesn't even come close to fitting the knife, way to large.

I have 20" Sirupate that's the same way. It's obvious QC at HI has slipped over the years. The Kami's using as many shortcuts in production as they can get away with. That's human nature when it comes to piece work. My 2004 model has a K. S. with badly shaped trident on the rightside of the blade
 
munk said:
What he didn't reveal was immediately afterwards he then established a thread on his own Tora forum to watch the fireworks, complete with a link to this thread in BF. He did this calculatedly and deliberately.

munk
Click to expand...

I pointed this out in my earlier thread Munk
kohei said:
HI has its defenders, so does Tora so it seems. Simon does not speak for others, people speak their own minds and thats fine. We have not asked for our supporters to post here, but merely pointed out that this forum exists. Its up to the individual whether they choose to post or not.
Click to expand...

And was this also not the case on the HI forum, where by one of your members posted the link here also on a thread entitles "rant about a thread over in the training section??? That too was posted on the same day. Your members and yourself passed comment on your forum, Tora members posted their comment on the Tora forum.

Your forumite wanted HI members to know what was going on, Simon wanted Tora members to know what was going on. Your world, Our world.

This was not a case of laying bait Munk. Just Simon speaking his mind. IMO He didn't mean to start a fight, it wasn't calculated, nor deliberate.

These are my thoughts, not Simons.
 
Kohie,
Simon lays out an insulting list of claimed HI faults and establishes a thread on his own forum immediately afterwards to watch the action. That speaks for itself and no soft approach now changes the nature of Simon's actions. It's observable and it's real. I appreciate you informed us that your members knew where the forum was but not that Simon had established a attack pipeline to the actual thread.

The thread in our own forum was started afterwards by people whom Simon insulted. There's a big difference.

Simon shows up when Bill is dying and talks recklessly on the forum. Rusty asks him to leave. Later, when Simon wanted reviews and attention to his new business, we of HI forum were there and encouraged him. Now Bill is deceased, and Simon is back talking worse than ever.

The alleged faults of one style of HI khuk have been answered ad nauseum- but Tora Shills continue. This was not a sincerely attempted discussion of historical differences, but a deliberate attempt to injure HI and spread nonsense. I am thoroughly disapointed in Tora. Like a lot of HI forumites, I wanted to beleive the best.
Fool me once....

Can anyone imagine a CEO of Taurus showing up in a public venue where the owners of Smith and Wesson were attending, and speaking the way Simon has in this thread about their competitors product? I can't imagine that, though I've seen it done here in BF by Simon of Tora.

HI is the world's leading manufacturer and distributor of Khkuries from Nepal. Simon hasn't changed that, but has changed the way Tora will be viewed in the future by fairminded people.

Willard- if you have a problem with your khuk, contact the manufacturer. If you notice where the ding is- it's on the last 2" or so of the tip, where one is not supposed to chop wood or rocks. It's left soft to avoid breakage. Had you written or called Bill Martino about this?




munk
 
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