Lion Steel Rotoblock

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Thank you for a more complete answer. I appreciate the context.

One thing, though.

The ability of the HEST Folder to open and lock and not just close (I am starting to repeat myself) is unique and the over design of the knife creates a rapid deployment system that locks. The Emerson does not lock if you read the patent carefully

The wording here is a bit confusing. Do you mean that the Emerson does not lock closed? Or are you defining "lock" as the engagement of a secondary lock? Because your initial post makes no reference to the knife locking closed.

Another feature is the Rapid Deployment System. When you pull the DPx HEST/F out of your pocket with a downward motion, it comes out open AND locked. No unassisted, manual knife on the planet does this.

Perhaps this is where myself and others are getting confused?
 
I believe he is saying that when the knife opens the rotoblock locks the lockbar into place, so he is saying not only does it open the knife, it is also locked (by the rotoblock). I am not familiar with the action though as I have never had a knife with a rotoblock on it before, so I might be wrong but that seems to be what he is saying.
 
I believe he is saying that when the knife opens the rotoblock locks the lockbar into place, so he is saying not only does it open the knife, it is also locked (by the rotoblock). I am not familiar with the action though as I have never had a knife with a rotoblock on it before, so I might be wrong but that seems to be what he is saying.

I agree with that. I think RYP is saying that it locks the lock on opening out of the pocket (like Garrett, I'm also not familiar with the RotoBlock or how it works). Not to step on any toes, and it's somewhat more obscure than Emersons, but more along the lines of the CRKT M21SF, which can be waved open from the pocket and the liner lock and AutoLAWKS engages at the same time.
 
For those still interested in more details of Lion Steel's Roto-Block.....

No you can't. The Rotoblock actually revolves approx 1/8 of a circle to lock the locking bar in place. Like this:
[youtube]-vIIet5j87Y[/youtube]
My ZT 0300 at least can't do that. ;)
 
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"where myself and others are getting confused?'

With all due respect Darth, you haven't used or performed the function I am describing but you took it upon yourself to accuse my company of patent violation, lying and being generally dishonest about the features, background and design history of this knife.

This knife is not some low budget knockoff with a celebrity sticker stuck on the package. This is my earnest efforts to make great gear based on 45 years of being in the bush, warzones and other hostile environments. I am not a machinist, mall ninja, self defense expert or big haired spokesman for other people's products and ideas. And as a designer and manufacturer I take great pride in getting things right and the effort that goes into design. I hear nothing but good thing about Mr. Emerson's knives but I am not a knife person, don't want to be and rarely even read consumer publications. I focus my efforts on "doing". So when I design a product its what I want and its based on watching products in the field fail or how they could have new features.

For the record,
I have never held used or seen an Emerson knife except in photographs. I am also sure that Mr. Emerson has never used, seen or held a DPx HEST/F so lets leave it to each other to determine what if any questions or discussions need to be held. We both use our real names, own businesses and can easily find each other if that conversation occurs. I have posted his patent on this site, read if fully and completely understand that he wants to protect his "wave" manufacturing feature. Unfortunately the DPx HEST doesn't have a "wave" feature, it has a beer opener also called a pot holder and designed by me to create an opposite lashing point and thumb grip on the fixed and folding HEST. Period.

I would be happy to swap one of his high end knives for one of mine and I am sure we would appreciate each other's viewpoint on blades. Based on my research the DPx HEST in no way infringes on his patent, copies his "Wave" design or has any relationship to his product line other than we both make high end folders. And yes both can be opened quickly but no Emerson LOCKS. So please stop confusing the concept of a spring that snaps into place versus a LOCK that keeps it locked. Huge difference and one I am sure you will appreciate when you actually see and handle the DPx HEST/F

Secondly, I have made it abundantly clear exactly who I am, why I designed the HEST, who I designed it for and how I spent considerable time testing and using the knife in the exact environment it was intended for. There is no need to speculate or invent my motivations or history.

Your insults about doing "marketing research" show your complete lack of research on my background and actually insults the readers of this forum and DPx HEST customers who know the difference between hype and performance. It is not about marketing. It is about products and customers being in sync. Being divisive or throwing rocks at that simple business concept shows lack of respect for the industry and customer and this open forum.

Finally its not my job to piss people off, steal things or copy anything. Its my job to do what I enjoy, make the best products I can and do it all in an open and constructive fashion so that we can enjoy better products and smarter manufacturers. So in the spirit of "harden the fuck up" lets focus on facts not speculation. :)
 
I would be happy to swap one of his high end knives for one of mine and I am sure we would appreciate each other's viewpoint on blades. Based on my research the DPx HEST in no way infringes on his patent, copies his "Wave" design or has any relationship to his product line other than we both make high end folders. And yes both can be opened quickly but no Emerson LOCKS. So please stop confusing the concept of a spring that snaps into place versus a LOCK that keeps it locked. Huge difference and one I am sure you will appreciate when you actually see and handle the ...

I think you're confused on the principal of how a lock is defined on a knife. :rolleyes:
 
It was pretty clear to me from the beginning that RYP was talking about the locking feature of the Rotoblock (the thread title being called "Lion Steel Rotoblock" and all), but I can certainly see why people are confused.
 
No Josh I am not. You may be happy with how folders used to "lock", I wasn't. I hope you can appreciate that under hard use a folder can "fold" when the spring is hit, pushed etc. So I apologize if the word "lock" to me is like a bank vault and "lock" to others is a screen door latch. But over here at DPx Gear...our shit LOCKS :)


This is the Lion Steel prototype of their patented RotoBlock.

Vege-Taco1445400.jpg


This is the more refined use on the DPx HEST/F. (rendering, I will find a close up photo of the actual knife later)

about3.jpg
 
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No Josh I am not. You may be happy with how folders used to "lock", I wasn't. I hope you can appreciate that under hard use a folder can "fold" when the spring is hit, pushed etc. So I apologize if the word "lock" to me is like a bank vault and "lock" to others is a screen door latch. But over here at DPx Gear...our shit LOCKS :)

It's still a lock, just a supposedly bigger one.

Does the rotolock screw down by itself when you open the knife? Otherwise it is just like a Hinderer Stabilizer.

As we have already seen, the point of failure is often not on the locking interface but on the lockbar itself. How thin is your cutout? I'm guessing not much (if any) thicker then any liner lock.
 
It was pretty clear to me from the beginning that RYP was talking about the locking feature of the Rotoblock (the thread title being called "Lion Steel Rotoblock" and all), but I can certainly see why people are confused.

The rotoblock isn't anything different except it prevents the lockbar from coming off. As we have seen (and I have mentioned) that isn't the issue on well designed and made locks.
 
I have posted his patent on this site, read if fully and completely understand that he wants to protect his "wave" manufacturing feature. Unfortunately the DPx HEST doesn't have a "wave" feature, it has a beer opener also called a pot holder and designed by me to create an opposite lashing point and thumb grip on the fixed and folding HEST. Period.

Right...

I can confirm that the bottle opener is actually a rapid deployment system.

Another feature is the Rapid Deployment System...

So it was not designed to be used as a wave despite the fact that you refer to the wave as a feature, give that feature a name, and later refer to that feature as well engineered.


And yes both can be opened quickly but no Emerson LOCKS. So please stop confusing the concept of a spring that snaps into place versus a LOCK that keeps it locked. Huge difference and one I am sure you will appreciate when you actually see and handle the DPx HEST/F

Here's the problem, RYP: The knife industry standard for the term "lock" is not "the engagement of a secondary lock in addition to the engagement of the primary lock". People will be very confused unless you state your definition of the term every time you use it. If you don't believe me, try going over to the general knife discussion forum, and telling everybody that their Sebenzas and Spydercos don't actually lock.

Other folder's not locking to your satisfaction does not mean that they do not lock.
 
then you would be wrong Josh. Like I said some people are happy with how current folders lock. I wasn't. I am just repeating myself. And Darth you are just repeating things I have already addressed in detail.

Kinda like explaining the difference between a Fiat and a Ferrari. Both are "italian cars" to some. Lock to DPx HEST owners will be different to lock on other folders. In fact there will be a little engraving that will say "lock" on the HEST folders just in case you hand to someone who confuses lock with LOCK. :))
 
then you would be wrong Josh. Like I said some people are happy with how current folders lock. I wasn't. I am just repeating myself. And Darth you are just repeating things I have already addressed in detail.

Kinda like explaining the difference between a Fiat and a Ferrari. Both are "italian cars" to some. Lock to DPx HEST owners will be different to lock on other folders. In fact there will be a little engraving that will say "lock" on the HEST folders just in case you hand to someone who confuses lock with LOCK. :))

Please, explain to me the difference between your knife, another Hinderer Stabilizer equipped knife, and a standard framelock.

While you're at it, please tell me how this knife "locks" (as in really really locks, not just a spring) simply by drawing it out of your pocket.

After you have done that (it's rhetorical, you don't need to actually answer), please take note that you're wrong. Does putting an extra set of wheels on a car make it a Ferrari? I don't think so. Putting an extra safety on a knife doesn't make it any different either. You have already publicly stated that your experience in knife making and the industry in general is limited. Why are you purporting that your knife is better then everything else? Heck, how many people have actually used the thing to validate these whimsical claims?

Any possible attraction I had to the HEST or HEST Folder has been completely lost by your actions in this thread. Congrats.
 
Quick question mostly unrelated to the current debacle, as I may pick one of these up next year. If the Rotoblock engages on withdraw, I assume it has to be manually unengaged before refolding. Is that something that can be done one-handed easily (maybe with the middle finger), or are two hands required like the videos posted show?
 
Quick question mostly unrelated to the current debacle, as I may pick one of these up next year. If the Rotoblock engages on withdraw, I assume it has to be manually unengaged before refolding. Is that something that can be done one-handed easily (maybe with the middle finger), or are two hands required like the videos posted show?

I highly doubt it engages on draw. You would have better luck asking existing SR-1 owners if they can unlock it with one hand.
 
I guess when RYP said it locks when opened that way, confused some that didnt understood it was actually about rotoblock. I honestly dont see any point in dragging this shit any further.

As far as cutout on the lock, its not thin by any means. Its actually thicker then on most folders with frame lock. And frame lock is 4mm thick. In addition with rotoblock, which i agree acts as a stabilizer (Lion Steel and Hinderer have an agreement of some sort), but it also when in lock position prevents the lock to disengage. Its a cool addition to what is a strong lock to begin with. Plus it has carbon inserted (dont know if its actually called carbon) where lock has contact with the blade when opened, to prevent too much wear.
 
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Quick question mostly unrelated to the current debacle, as I may pick one of these up next year. If the Rotoblock engages on withdraw, I assume it has to be manually unengaged before refolding. Is that something that can be done one-handed easily (maybe with the middle finger), or are two hands required like the videos posted show?

Its just a turn with a finger to disengage the rotoblock. It doesn't take two hands to fold the knife. Hope that helps.
 
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