Why does anyone get a job? Right time, right place, good face to face skills, great interview? I was not in a room with the interviewer, I have not talked to Mick. My question to you, why would you automatically assume it was a lie?
--Carl
-
All For Sale threads must have a pic showing the knife being sold with written date listed, your username & Bladeforums or BFC to prevent photo harvesting from elsewhere - scammers hate this one trick! The rules for The Exchange can be found here. Please read and follow them. Stop using Paypal Friends & Family and follow our best practices to prevent getting ripped off or having a bad deal.
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Mick Strider has some explaining to do.
- Thread starter Spark
- Start date
- Status
Why does anyone get a job? Right time, right place, good face to face skills, great interview? I was not in a room with the interviewer, I have not talked to Mick. My question to you, why would you automatically assume it was a lie?
--Carl
Barker, I would agree with you and Win, except we have a dogpile on a veteran without evidence. This Chaps me more than most things. These are men who stood up and said "I'll do it", and gave others the peace to sit around and bitch. This bothers me.
To be honest, I would be asking for proof if someone who disliked Spark stood up and started calling him a lier about his military career.
--Carl
Mick has told a whopper outside of both your, and his, areas of expertise. LOGIC dictates there was no Somalia plea bargain, for it wasn't LOGICALLY POSSIBLE. The Congressional sentencing guidelines forbid it. The "deal" would have been in writing since it was only "pulled" the morning of sentencing. The record makes no mention of special considerations--only a standard horsetrade dropping a serious charge in exchange for a guilty plea to lessers.
THE SOMALIA TALE IS A CIRCUMSTANTIALLY PROVEN LIE.
It'd just be his cover, he's extra spooky, remember? No BGs would ever think the drivethrough guy at an Oceanside Wendy's was really the template for Jack Bauer. Would they?
Non-disclosure agreements don't cover the identification of who you worked for and the gross outlines of when you worked for them. Even mercs like to have resumes that can be checked out. Mick should just identify the presumed contractor to whom anyone may call and ask "Did Mickey R. Strider work for you between dates X and Y?" Yes or no would be the only answer required, betraying no "mission confidences" at all. He refuses to identfy any potential employer, leaving the unmistakeable impression that there are none.
Man you are logic resistant. Ever hear of circumstantial evidence? There is a pile of it in this thread, most of it from the horse's own ass.
There have been no formal retractions produced, only some of that supposition that you have something against. If you are going to have such high standards of "physical proof" at least be a two way street about it.
His lawsuit admissions are hard evidence. The weasel words rationalizing their contents are not.
SNIPPED MYOPIC LIST OF INCOHERENCE
The charges of lying have been ably laid, it is not up to the critics of Mick Strider to answer them on his behalf.
FOIA requests to various governmental bodies are looking more and more to be worth the hassle.
Circumstantial is not proof. You have circumstantially "proven" a lot of things that are then refuted with evidence.
I am a proponent of innocent until proven guilty. Please provide proof. You claim he is guilty of these "charges", please prove them. Prove beyond a reasonable doubt one of them.
--Carl
I am a proponent of innocent until proven guilty. Please provide proof. You claim he is guilty of these "charges", please prove them. Prove beyond a reasonable doubt one of them.
--Carl
This one's the clincher for me:
"section 1, part (c), Mick Strider had to allocute as follows:
Mick Strider hereby acknowledges that he has never been deployed as a U.S. Army Ranger. Strider also acknowledges that he has never served in or participated with SOCOM (Special Operations Command). Strider also acknowledges that he has never had any combat experience with any branch of the U.S. Military or U.S.Government Agencies, nor has he participated in any "Black Ops". Strider served in 2/75, but never graduated Ranger School. Strider lost all rank, was barred from re-enlistment and was discharged from the Military as a Private."
I don't know what more can be said...
"section 1, part (c), Mick Strider had to allocute as follows:
Mick Strider hereby acknowledges that he has never been deployed as a U.S. Army Ranger. Strider also acknowledges that he has never served in or participated with SOCOM (Special Operations Command). Strider also acknowledges that he has never had any combat experience with any branch of the U.S. Military or U.S.Government Agencies, nor has he participated in any "Black Ops". Strider served in 2/75, but never graduated Ranger School. Strider lost all rank, was barred from re-enlistment and was discharged from the Military as a Private."
I don't know what more can be said...
- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
- Messages
- 15,223
As soon as I read about the Somalia claim, I made my decision to take action about this. Emailing Kevin McClung was a mistake on my part, because he forced me to make these statements public before I had all the information on hand.
When I saw that Cold Steel knife and Lynn talking about felons, I googled up information. Suprise suprise suprise, what shows up on Google? Discussions of Chris Osmans lawsuit last year involving Mick Strider. So I talked to Chris Osman, asking for more information. He confirmed what had been stated. But it wasn't until Mick Strider made the claim on BadlandsForums about being sentenced to Somalia that I started documenting all of this, and I took a public side right here:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4351918&postcount=585
4 Days after Mick's statement.
By all means, if you can show that I've been asking about this Somalia claim beforehand, do so.
What does that have to do with anything? The papers were quoted on his forum. He acknowledges having lots of documentation. I asked for assistance. He acted like a weasel. I have the integrity to stand up and say, yes, I approached him. I also have the integrity to point out his leadership in exposing these lies. I also have the integrity to answer your questions attacking my motives, when the person who actually lied about being sentenced to Somalia has hid and refuses to even provide NON SECRET DATES OF SERVICE.
You get more flies with honey than vinegar. If I could get the documentation quicker through McClung than paying a records clerk or private investigator, then I have no problem giving a "bribe" for services rendered.
Yes, Michelle, I admitted I made a mistake and was wrong. I wrongfully thought I'd been banned from Badlands for whatever reason. I retracted that statement. Are you saying that I am lying about that?
I respect that and the help you have given. You and I have no problems with that regard.
The Somalia claim is the straw that broke the camel's back. As for the rest, I'll just quote what I stated earlier -
Now you are flat out incorrect and either lying or ignorant. I stated point blank that Kevin McClung first revealed these issues on the web. I didn't start the Cold Steel Strider Rip Off thread, or even take sides until page 30. So do not come in here and lie about me, to my face, and expect not to be called on it.
What do I have to gain? How about a liar is held accountable for stating he was going to be sentenced to Somalia? How about a felon is held accountable for having firearms. How about someone who brags about being a combat vet being held accountable for his claims not holding water?
So tell me, Michelle, what is your agenda. You've gone out of your way to question my motives twice now and call me on the carpet for something minor. You've ignored repeated requests to provide clarification on the statements made. Make a stand and be counted - are you saying that the information I've collected here (from various sources, just so you can't say I'm "claiming credit") is factually incorrect? Are you saying that Mick Strider is telling the truth about being sentenced to Somalia? Are you saying that despite a lawsuit showing otherwise, he is in fact a combat veteran from service to the US Government? If these claims aren't true, why are you so heavily defending them?
Because, if any of that is true, it should be very easy to prove. The lack of proof provided speaks volumes.
It might take the rest of the year, but I'm strongly leaning to begin inquiring, if for no other reason than to just lay out all of the cards.
Letters to the defense attorneys are a waste of time and effort, but the US Attorney's office owes no duty of confidentiality as to the defendant Mickey R. Strider as regards the alleged plea bargain. They might be interested in knowing that the integrity of their San Diego office is being impugned.
FOIA to Bureau of Prisons will give me the definitive period Mr. Strider was "on ice." I very much doubt even his strongest backer will assert that Mick was "mission ready" in Lewisberg FedPen.
The court documents surrounding his divorce, unless sealed, will also provide some handy information. If they are sealed, that seal can be lifted.
A start anyways.
Should be able to get a decent timeline going if nothing else.
Mick has made it clear on another forum that he is done with answering questions like this and moved on. I suggest everyone else do that as well. This is a fruitless venture if nothing further is to be added in the way of facts. He is not going to contribute to this so forget that idea.
Posting questions on another forum about what is asked here is a good recipe for banning on some forums. As a moderator on a couple forums myself I have to admit that this would piss me off if someone did that on one I was responsible for to post a hot flame war starter topic like this in a new thread. I'd lock the thread in all likelihood and can pretty much guess that it would be moved to the trash can shortly after that. At the very least I'd be sending a stern warning via a quick PM to the person that posted the question and brought trouble to my forum also.
Also. It isn't necessarily needed or possible to know about all the skeletons in my closet to make a decision as to whether you like me as the man I am now or not. I'll be the first to admit that most of you that like me now would probably not have liked me all that much in my eariler years. I had my priorities wrong and had many lessons in life to learn yet to mature as well as many other things that would have rubbed people wrong back then. At one time if pot had been legal, hell I'd have been a farmer and I can't take those facts away or deny what I was back then. I can only look at the experiences I've had up to this point in time and take those experiences and realize that without each and every one of them I would not be the man I am now. This is true with Mick and anyone else also. I find it hard to justify condemning him for something he did as a young stupid youth that he still tries to make up for today best he can. Its never sat well with me watching all this spectacle but sometimes I think out loud too much.
All I do know is this. What I think are good honorable people (many of them vets themselves) tell me that Mick Strider is a good honorable man as he stands today. Give him his life experiences, both the good and bad and let him be judged for what he is now after those experiences, not what he was yesterday and do that for all of us please.
STR
Posting questions on another forum about what is asked here is a good recipe for banning on some forums. As a moderator on a couple forums myself I have to admit that this would piss me off if someone did that on one I was responsible for to post a hot flame war starter topic like this in a new thread. I'd lock the thread in all likelihood and can pretty much guess that it would be moved to the trash can shortly after that. At the very least I'd be sending a stern warning via a quick PM to the person that posted the question and brought trouble to my forum also.
Also. It isn't necessarily needed or possible to know about all the skeletons in my closet to make a decision as to whether you like me as the man I am now or not. I'll be the first to admit that most of you that like me now would probably not have liked me all that much in my eariler years. I had my priorities wrong and had many lessons in life to learn yet to mature as well as many other things that would have rubbed people wrong back then. At one time if pot had been legal, hell I'd have been a farmer and I can't take those facts away or deny what I was back then. I can only look at the experiences I've had up to this point in time and take those experiences and realize that without each and every one of them I would not be the man I am now. This is true with Mick and anyone else also. I find it hard to justify condemning him for something he did as a young stupid youth that he still tries to make up for today best he can. Its never sat well with me watching all this spectacle but sometimes I think out loud too much.
All I do know is this. What I think are good honorable people (many of them vets themselves) tell me that Mick Strider is a good honorable man as he stands today. Give him his life experiences, both the good and bad and let him be judged for what he is now after those experiences, not what he was yesterday and do that for all of us please.
STR
- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
- Messages
- 15,223
I've repeatedly asked for dates that this suppossed civilian contracting work for the US Government has taken place. None have been forthcoming.
I personally find that it strains credibility to the max that an E-1, with a spinal injury, and self described "shitty attitude", that had been barred from re-enlistment, would be recruited for ANY Special Operations capacity. ANY. Every veteran I've talked to, and who has chimed in on this thread, states the exact same thing. I've talked to a couple guys who are actually contractors right now, and you know what they said? Not only could you not have anything wrong with your record, but that if you had any disciplinary problems, you were unlikely to be accepted. You had to have your documentation wired tight. You have to have a SECRET clearance or the ability to get one.
Reconcile this with what's been claimed here. I will welcome any documentation showing that Mick Strider was employed as a secret agent or Jack Bauer type during the years 1986-1993. If my statements are wrong, I will say so.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but one question comes to mind: Did Mick have any combat time before he went into the Rangers? Apparently he never deployed as a Ranger, but did he deploy before that?
My only other question regarding this topic is: Why should I care?
My only other question regarding this topic is: Why should I care?
- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
- Messages
- 15,223
Chris Osmans suit has Mick Strider allocuting that he has zero combat time at all.
Mick Strider agreed to the settlement.
He's also required by the settlement terms to correct any information contradicting that settlement within 3 weeks of notice to his lawyer from the plaintiff. See post 6 in this thread, where the settlement is quoted (from information on TacticalForums.com Michelle, just so you can't claim I'm stealing credit)
Mick Strider agreed to the settlement.
He's also required by the settlement terms to correct any information contradicting that settlement within 3 weeks of notice to his lawyer from the plaintiff. See post 6 in this thread, where the settlement is quoted (from information on TacticalForums.com Michelle, just so you can't claim I'm stealing credit)
It would seem that he keeps answering the questions he wants to and keeps ducking the ones he doesn't want to answer. Then says he's finished answering questions. There's a difference and it should be noted. My only question at this point, which MANY have already asked, is did Mick have combat experience or not? Sounds like an easy question to answer, unless you don't want the answer out there.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2003
- Messages
- 20,206
Carl, absolute proof in an engineering sense does not explain how the world works. People are convicted in courts of crimes "beyond a reasonable doubt" every day on circumstantial evidence alone: motive; means; opportunity; expressions of hatred; the otherwise unexplainable disappearance of the claimed victim. Even TV is accurate to that extent (although massively wrong on almost every other aspect of legal "stuff.") The inferences drawn to support guilt are permitted by the law even if not required to be drawn.
Mr. Strider obviously can be a very charming guy who wins many friends and supporters. Some, like Mr. Hossum, I would never think of "groupies." That says to me that he has acted honorably towards these persons.
However, such conduct is simply not proof to bar a permissible inference from the circumtances that he was an unlikely candidate to be recruited by an unknown private contractor for combat ops of unknown nature in an unknown location for an unknown duration. Neither is having and deserving friends proof to refute a permissible inference that the public court records of his conviction seem, on their face, inconsistent with any alternative to incarceration being offered (ie. Somalia for a year).
And, of course, all of these inferences can be exploded in an instant by contrary evidence. Respectfully, and recalling that I have argued that he is entitled to call himself a former Ranger according to the U.S. Army, where is the evidence that Mr. Strider served in combat, was a civilian "operator," or was offered service in Somalia in lieu of incarceration? It would be heart-warming to see such evidence.
I, at least, recognize that he may truly be unconcerned with these charges and questions about his past. That seems to be his public posture. Some folks who have been in deep shit easily discount things that bothers others intensely. And if, in the event, the Rangers keep inviting him to their events, it will not impact SKI in any business sense.
He cannot be required to give his evidence, but others are looking.
I met one guy that I am absolutely positive worked as a contractor for a company that did work for one of the alphabet soup gov't agencies during that same time, and he had a lot more to offer than a slicksleeve private would have. Someone gets these jobs because of skills and training, and someone who is either A) the lowest paygrade, most common MOS, and/or B) disabled from same, wouldn't have brought anything to the table in that era. I do believe that a basic infantryman could easily get a contract job today, although there might not be much "special" about it.
Then there is the issue of "special operations" by non-military units. The guy I met did a lot of training work, just as many contractors do today. Did he go out and get shot at? Yes, but I think he would have said he was an advisor, not an "operator."
Finally, there is the "sentence" of a year in Somalia. As sentences go, it might make Attica look like Club Med, but the idea is absurd.
The bottom line is that I have met more than a few guys from the real special operations community, and none of them tell stories that sound like the plotline to Rainbow 6.
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2006
- Messages
- 115
Spark, can I safely assume that you have combat time with a SOF-capable unit?
I've never heard anyone so cavalierly pursue another man's claims that hasn't served in a similar capacity themselves.
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2001
- Messages
- 18,423
Whole lot of truth in that, I don't claim to know many, but I do know a few guys that I know 100% for sure, have been in SPECOPS and I have yet to see one of them brag about what they did on missions and can't begin to imagine one of them using things that they aren't supposed to talk about, as ad copy.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
- Messages
- 15,223
Nope. I'm not a combat vet, I just am a regular one. I served from 91-94. I was just a lowly Combat Engineer, 12B1P. My SOF capabilities? Well, I was in the only non-divisional Airborne Engineer unit in the Army, so we did a bunch of crazy shit, but I never was in combat. I pulled supporting missions for a wide variety of units, including some time doing construction work for some guys behind a fence on Fort Bragg, but that doesn't make me a Special Forces soldier, or an operator of any sort. Want to look it up? C CO, 27EN BN (C)(A), 20ENG BDE. I'll give you dates, times, platoons, and my chain of command. Compare and contrast that with the evasion, obfuscation, and diversions someone else has shown.
So, I did serve, and I was honorably discharged. I was in service during Somalia and had buddies who were deployed there from across the quad. So, when some felon lies about his service and shits on my friends combat time, I have every right to call him out on it. And unlike some, after my jump injury resulting in traumatic spondololysis and fucked up L4 and L5 vertebrae, I went through my physical therapy and got back on the horse, instead of having a shitty attitude and getting kicked out.
So yeah, I didn't be there and do that like a real operator. But you know what? I actually did what I'm saying, and am not claiming to be something super secret to pad my wallet.
The minimum qualification, in this instance, to question Strider's non combat status, (by his own admission no less), is the ability to form the question(s) in English.
That veterans have been doing a lot of the questioning is just icing.
That veterans have been doing a lot of the questioning is just icing.
"section 1, part (c), Mick Strider had to allocute as follows:
Mick Strider hereby acknowledges that he has never been deployed as a U.S. Army Ranger. Strider also acknowledges that he has never served in or participated with SOCOM (Special Operations Command). Strider also acknowledges that he has never had any combat experience with any branch of the U.S. Military or U.S.Government Agencies, nor has he participated in any "Black Ops". Strider served in 2/75, but never graduated Ranger School. Strider lost all rank, was barred from re-enlistment and was discharged from the Military as a Private."
I have a problem with a legal allocution which denies the 2/75 Rangers are a part of SOCOM, as has been established.
Therefore the statement "has never served in or participated with SOCOM" must either be false, or restricted to the separate headquarters organization.
An allocution directed by one party as an admittance is solely responsible for its accuracy, especially when written by civilian lawyers on matters outside their ken. Mick can agree with the statement, but it doesn't make it true. I could allocute that Boats is an Oregon marriage consultant, but the truth is only what he's said, and proved, by documentation. This allocution is flawed, and I'm surprised you missed it.
I question the allocution as a legal reference point of service when the Government has shown different. I also question why some don't seem to understand that you can get combat experience just being a consultant overseas (or even a police officer in certain urban neighborhoods.)
Most Americans used to understand the service when I got in - 1 in 10 had served in WWII, Korea, and/or Vietnam. Now it's 1 in 100 - so the vast ignorance of actual military experience and service in combat arms in this thread is no surprise.
Mick Strider hereby acknowledges that he has never been deployed as a U.S. Army Ranger. Strider also acknowledges that he has never served in or participated with SOCOM (Special Operations Command). Strider also acknowledges that he has never had any combat experience with any branch of the U.S. Military or U.S.Government Agencies, nor has he participated in any "Black Ops". Strider served in 2/75, but never graduated Ranger School. Strider lost all rank, was barred from re-enlistment and was discharged from the Military as a Private."
I have a problem with a legal allocution which denies the 2/75 Rangers are a part of SOCOM, as has been established.
Therefore the statement "has never served in or participated with SOCOM" must either be false, or restricted to the separate headquarters organization.
An allocution directed by one party as an admittance is solely responsible for its accuracy, especially when written by civilian lawyers on matters outside their ken. Mick can agree with the statement, but it doesn't make it true. I could allocute that Boats is an Oregon marriage consultant, but the truth is only what he's said, and proved, by documentation. This allocution is flawed, and I'm surprised you missed it.
I question the allocution as a legal reference point of service when the Government has shown different. I also question why some don't seem to understand that you can get combat experience just being a consultant overseas (or even a police officer in certain urban neighborhoods.)
Most Americans used to understand the service when I got in - 1 in 10 had served in WWII, Korea, and/or Vietnam. Now it's 1 in 100 - so the vast ignorance of actual military experience and service in combat arms in this thread is no surprise.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
- Messages
- 15,223
Ok tirod, maybe I can put it in easier terms for you:
2/75 wasn't incorporated into SOCOM until after Mick Strider was out of the US Army.
Combat Veteran means you were in uniformed service. If he's claiming combat veteran status as a contractor, by all means he should provide supporting documentation because I'd love to know what, where, when, who and how he got that job. Until he does, the court document is true, and legally binding. Any claims to the contrary are hot air.
2/75 wasn't incorporated into SOCOM until after Mick Strider was out of the US Army.
Combat Veteran means you were in uniformed service. If he's claiming combat veteran status as a contractor, by all means he should provide supporting documentation because I'd love to know what, where, when, who and how he got that job. Until he does, the court document is true, and legally binding. Any claims to the contrary are hot air.
- Status