My experience with Liu Kang

Status
Not open for further replies.
I don't know if I would have started a thread like this, but since it's here...

If I am the Buyer paying for the shipping and either I request the item to be insured and pay the fee or it is stated that the shipping fee includes insurance through the shipping company, then I expect exactly that. I'm not paying for the Seller to assume the risk, I'm paying so that the shipper is assuming the risk and so I need not worry about recovering the cost of the item from the Seller. Who knows what may or may not have happened, should the item not have been received from the Seller with no insurance purchased? Personally, when I ship a knife I've sold, I won't ship a knife without insurance. This is why I include insured shipping as part of the deal in the price I'm asking, along with D/C or S/C for tracking, so I can ship it my way which is the preferred way in most Buyers' eyes. Since the Seller agreed to, received the cost of, and yet did not purchase the optional insurance requested, then it's my opinion that the Seller should not benefit from this as I would not expect to in this position. I do believe that a refund for the difference is in order for the insurance not purchased.

Also...
USPS website said:
Restrictions
Contents must reasonably fit within the Priority Mail packaging, and weigh less than 70 pounds

http://www.usps.com/shipping/prioritymail.htm
Click to expand...

When these NM Fusion Battle Mistresses were shipped from Busse Combat, they were NOT shipped in Priority Mail boxes specifically because they would not reasonably fit inside them and still be safe for transport, i.e. tips were sheathed to prevent cutting through the box. They actually used two different sized boxes to create a telescoping style shipping package which was then taped up securely to keep both the knives and the USPS couriers handling these packages safe from damage & harm. to To try and ship one without protecting the box and the people charged with delivering said box from the tip of a sharp & heavy knife like a NMFBM, as well as not caring enough to have the knife received in the same condition as was shipped instead of simply using a larger box for shipping tells me that the Seller was more interested in the few dollars saved than the safe shipping of a sold item.

JMO, YMMV

.
 
I've done business with Dan before. We traded knives once, and each of us shipped to the other. I agree that Dan needs to work on his packing skills, but my item arrived safely (without delivery confirmation as I asked), but it arrived safely so I didn't make a huge thing about it.

I beleive that if your knife had been damaged or lost that Dan would have made good on it.

I almost always lose money on shipping. I recently shipped a knife to a buyer and paid about 10.00 more than I estimated to him for shipping. I overpacked it just to make sure it arrived safely. Should I turn around and ask him for more money after the fact because I spent more than I estimated? With your reasoning I should.

You negotiated a deal for x-amount on shipping and agreed. The knife arrived safely, albeit not packaged as you would have. Dan admitted fault. In my eyes it was a succesful transaction. Maybe not one you want to repeat.

You both should move on and get past it.
 
Insurance buys the purchaser of the insurance peace of mind. You're paying money to transfer liability away from yourself and onto another party.

The insurance you bought transfers liability from you to the seller. He can then transfer liability from himself to the shipping carrier by purchasing insurance from them. He did not (it sounds like by accident) but that doesn't change the position you were in. You purchased insurance and got the transfer of liability.

If something had gone wrong and he then said he wasn't going to refund your money you definitely have a legitimate grievance, but nothing went wrong. You got your product and you got the piece of mind that had a shipping problem occured you would have been compensated.

You might not believe he would have paid (though I do from the tone of his emails and the fact that he's been around a while and has a reputation to protect) but I don't think that changes the fact that he did have the liability had anything gone wrong.
 
UDDwaine said:
The deal was for shipping and insurance, not just shipping.
Click to expand...

Exactly. :thumbup:

I certainly hope that every time from now on when I decide to buy a knife off the X that I don't have to ask the Seller, "Hey, is the insurance offered going to be through USPS, or through you, the Seller and taken at your word?". :confused:
 
Jaxx said:
Exactly. :thumbup:

I certainly hope that every time from now on when I decide to buy a knife off the X that I don't have to ask the Seller, "Hey, is the insurance offered going to be through USPS, or through you, the Seller and taken at your word?". :confused:
Click to expand...

That's what you do every time you purchase anything online. You're taking the word of the seller that, after you've transferred funds, they are going to send you the product you are attempting to purchase.

If you trust the seller you trust the seller. I can't see the logic in trusting the seller to send you the product but not trusting the seller to to provide the accompanying insurance you've purchased. If you take that view you're basically saying you're comfortable buying a $700 product from them but you're not comfortable buying an $11 service from them.
 
Last edited:
chackoc said:
That's what you do every time you purchase anything online. You're taking the word of the seller that, after you've transferred funds, they are going to send you the product you are attempting to purchase.

If you trust the seller you trust the seller. I can't see the logic in trusting the seller to send you the product but not trusting the seller to to provide the accompanying insurance you've purchased. If you take that view you're basically saying you're comfortable buying a $700 product from them but you're not comfortable buying an $11 service from them.
Click to expand...

Yes, the OP trusted the seller to buy the insurance, and he did not, so he deserves a refund for that.

Think of it this way. The buyer bought a $700 knife and a $10 sheath. If the sheath was not shipped with the knife, no matter how inexpensive, then the whole agreed on deal was not delivered.

This is the exact same thing.
 
chackoc said:
That's what you do every time you purchase anything online. You're taking the word of the seller that, after you've transferred funds, they are going to send you the product you are attempting to purchase.

If you trust the seller you trust the seller. I can't see the logic in trusting the seller to send you the product but not trusting the seller to to provide the accompanying insurance you've requested. If you take that view you're basically saying you're comfortable buying a $700 product from them but you're not comfortable buying an $11 service from them.
Click to expand...


this post makes no sense. :confused:

the buyer purchased a product+shipping+insurance for $720.

the seller did not pay for the insurance, and spent $9 on shipping, $11 more than he charged the buyer.

insurance is for the buyer and the seller. should the package be lost or damaged, insurance covers the cost of the item. the seller does not have to come out of pocket, except perhaps for the initial refund while until the claim is processed.
 
Jaxx said:
Exactly. :thumbup:

I certainly hope that every time from now on when I decide to buy a knife off the X that I don't have to ask the Seller, "Hey, is the insurance offered going to be through USPS, or through you, the Seller and taken at your word?". :confused:
Click to expand...

If the sellers are going to be the ones offering the insurance, are they going to be putting money in escrow somewhere to cover that? :-(

That is a poor way to do business. If a buyer asks for X, you agree to sell him X, then deliver everything you agreed to deliver.
 
Insurance was paid for and not delivered, therefore that part of the deal was uncompleted and the seller needs to refund what was not used of the buyers money. Simple to me.

I fully believe this deserves to be brought up as the deal did not go about as was agreed and the seller has not completed his end of the deal. As well this thread lets others know about the shipping practices of the seller so that we can know for future possible transactions and issues that may come about as a result.
 
UDDwaine said:
Yes, the OP trusted the seller to buy the insurance, and he did not, so he deserves a refund for that.

Think of it this way. The buyer bought a $700 knife and a $10 sheath. If the sheath was not shipped with the knife, no matter how inexpensive, then whole agreed on deal was not delivered.

This is the exact same thing.
Click to expand...

They're not the same thing. In your use case the purchaser would not have received a product. In the OP's case he received a service (liability transfer) and the only complaint he has is that the party who assumed liability was the seller rather than the shipper.

Look at it this way, if the seller had purchased insurance through the shipper would the buyer's experience have been, in any measurable way, different? No. The buyer got what he purchased: a product plus the understanding that a shipping mishap would not come out of his pocket.

MORIMOTOM said:
this post makes no sense. :confused:

the buyer purchased a product+shipping+insurance for $720.

the seller did not pay for the insurance, and spent $9 on shipping, $11 more than he charged the buyer.

insurance is for the buyer and the seller. should the package be lost or damaged, insurance covers the cost of the item. the seller does not have to come out of pocket, except perhaps for the initial refund while until the claim is processed.
Click to expand...

Insurance is not for the seller. It's a service for which the buyer is the sole beneficiary (assuming the lack of insurance would mean the buyer eats the costs, as is typically the case.)

Insurance is not a physical product. It's a service whose sole purpose is to transfer liability. Since the package wasn't lost it's impossible for any of us to know for certain whether that liability was actually transferred.

If you believe that the seller would have provided a refund had the package been lost then liability was transferred and the buyer got what they paid for.

If you believe that the seller would not have provided a refund had the package been lost then liability was never transferred and the buyer did not receive a service for which they paid.

I believe the seller would have anted up, and so in my view the buyer got what they paid for.
 
chackoc said:
That's what you do every time you purchase anything online. You're taking the word of the seller that, after you've transferred funds, they are going to send you the product you are attempting to purchase.

If you trust the seller you trust the seller. I can't see the logic in trusting the seller to send you the product but not trusting the seller to to provide the accompanying insurance you've purchased. If you take that view you're basically saying you're comfortable buying a $700 product from them but you're not comfortable buying an $11 service from them.
Click to expand...

Other than agreeing to enter a deal with the Seller, no I am not fully trusting the Seller. Should the item not be shipped, I have several options of recourse available to me through USPS (Money order sent through the mail- fraud), PayPal (Buyer's protection), my credit card company (fraud protection), law enforcement, and checking the Seller's track record here in the GB&U. Foolproof? No, but it gives me a better than average chance to see my money again, and at the very least, I can state my case here to warn others not to trust a certain Seller at all (GB&U).

I do NOT trust any Seller to act as the insuring agent in a deal where they have a part of and a stake in. Someone is going to lose... If the knife is missing, only the cash from the sale is left with two people to resolve the situation between them. An honest Seller will eat the loss, but what if the Seller is in dire financial straits and has spent the money on bills or has a medical emergency requiring payment? Then what? In a word, messy, and that is why I would rather spend for shipper's insurance. Then neither party is out anything significant as far as value in cash goes.
 
Last edited:
CUTS LIKE A KRIS said:
I fully believe this deserves to be brought up as the deal did not go about as was agreed and the seller has not completed his end of the deal. As well this thread lets others know about the shipping practices of the seller so that we can know for future possible transactions and issues that may come about as a result.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this. I read a few mentions of people thinking my post here might be slightly off base. Well, it was an experience with a fellow member and this is the feedback forum. In my opinion, just because I did not get 100% hosed or had 100% satisfaction does not make it unreasonable for me to share. Had I read something similar prior to the purchase, I would not have.

UDD, that sheath comment painted a real good pic.
 
chackoc said:
They're not the same thing. In your use case the purchaser would not have received a product. In the OP's case he received a service (liability transfer) and the only complaint he has is that the party who assumed liability was the seller rather than the shipper.
Click to expand...
Well, I think you are wrong. The buyer bought X, and the seller did not deliver what was agreed upon, that is all there is to say.


chackoc said:
I believe the seller would have anted up, and so in my view the buyer got what they paid for.
Click to expand...
You can believe what you want, luckily we did not need to find that out. But the buyer did not get what he paid for, he paid for shipping and insurance, and got zero insurance.
 
UDDwaine said:
Well, I think you are wrong. The buyer bought X, and the seller did not deliver what was agreed upon, that is all there is to say.



You can believe what you want, luckily we did not need to find that out. But the buyer did not get what he paid for, he paid for shipping and insurance, and got zero insurance.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY. It really is that simple.

I didnt mean to get it all blown up by adding every bit of info shared, I just wanted everyone to get a good idea without any confusion. If a mod feels this is at all being blown out of proportion then PLEASE lock her down.
 
If I pay for insurance I expect to receive it and I definitely expect a refund if the shipper forgets to include it.

I would be really alarmed if received a knife packaged in that manner. It is unsafe for the recipient and for all of those people who handle it along the way.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top