Like the OP and many others, I believe that the deal was left unfinished. It's irrelevant that the knife was received by the buyer; he paid for the knife, shipping, and insurance and didn't exactly receive what he paid for so a refund of the difference (in this case, $11 and some change) should be in order from the seller.
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My experience with Liu Kang
- Thread starter dericdesmond
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It's always sad when a deal goes bad. It seems like a big misunderstanding. Both the buyer and the seller have excellent reputations on this forum. And I think that both have good points and valid concerns.
But make no mistake, shipping insurance is not for the buyer. It is for the seller to reimburse the buyer should the package be lost or damaged. The other option is for the seller to 'self-insure' as LK did in this case.
Insurance is a bit of a gamble. But does your auto insurance company refund your insurance premium if you have no claims? Of course not. Nor does any other kind of insurance.
Should something have gone awry, LK would have been out over $700 by self insuring the package. The buyer had no risk in this case. If you have doubts, look at LK's feedback. He is solid. The buyer is also solid. I wouldn't hesitate to do business with either one of these guys.
The seller didn't buy insurance and the knife got delivered as promised. Therefore, no insurance needed. We can all dabble in nebulous uncertainties. But facts do not change. The seller delivered and the buyer is happy with the knife. Generally, this is where the story ends... happily ever after.
Hopefully this deal ends that way... :thumbup:
But make no mistake, shipping insurance is not for the buyer. It is for the seller to reimburse the buyer should the package be lost or damaged. The other option is for the seller to 'self-insure' as LK did in this case.
Insurance is a bit of a gamble. But does your auto insurance company refund your insurance premium if you have no claims? Of course not. Nor does any other kind of insurance.
Should something have gone awry, LK would have been out over $700 by self insuring the package. The buyer had no risk in this case. If you have doubts, look at LK's feedback. He is solid. The buyer is also solid. I wouldn't hesitate to do business with either one of these guys.
The seller didn't buy insurance and the knife got delivered as promised. Therefore, no insurance needed. We can all dabble in nebulous uncertainties. But facts do not change. The seller delivered and the buyer is happy with the knife. Generally, this is where the story ends... happily ever after.
Hopefully this deal ends that way... :thumbup:
But the buyer didn't pay the extra money so that the seller could "self insure". He paid for the seller to insure with the USPS. Just because a seller has outstanding feedback doesn't mean that he/she will always come through (read, reimburse the buyer) if a package is sent uninsured doesn't show up. That's why the buyer paid extra for insurance in the first place. He did not receive what he paid for so there needs to be a refund to clean it up.
dericdesmond
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You mean after the case. Never heard of this concept before and I cant say Im much for it, regardless of anyone's rep. His "self insure" does not give me the peace of mind I would ever want going into a $700 transaction regardless of how good his feedback is. I know I just give my insurance company $, but to compare Lui Kangs word after the fact is not a very good comparison. And who is he to call himself the insurance man and decide where my $ ends? The fact that he gave me the option to have my $11.80 ONLY if I told him what he wanted to hear is such a good premiss. With that said. Im locking her down. If Dan wants to speak out, then I will gladly do what I can to re-open it. Thanks for all your time.
Cheers.
dericdesmond
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thread is now open
So let me get this straight... You willingly paid an inflated price for the knife, and an inflated 5% fee for paypal, and you're griping over the difference that shipping 'should' have cost him had he insured the package? As the guy said, it's a non-issue. You got your knife. The fact that the insurance wasn't purchased is a moot point. He clearly said he would have covered the cost out of his pocket had the knife been lost, and he has clearly offered a full refund of the purchase price. Man, give it a rest already. As for the blade poking out the edge, the postmaster is equally at fault for allowing a package like that to ship.
Please explain how the buyer didn't receive what he paid for? He received the knife. The fact that there was no 'invisible shield against loss" applied to the box is a moot point after the knife arrives safely. Lack of insurance is only an issue if the knife got lost or destroyed during shipping. Since it didn't, it's no longer a valid issue, and to whine about it's lack thereof after the package arrived is pointless. The buyer got what he paid for. A knife. The seller obviously overinflates the prices of his knives, and people still willingly pay said overinflated prices, as well as overinflated paypal and shipping charges, so what's the point of complaining about a few bucks that was saved on shipping? I mean, if I'm buying a $700 knife, I'd expect to receive it in a walnut presentation shadowbox or something. Not bubblewrap and painter's tape. But that's just me. You're not gonna find me whining because actual shipping wasn't as much as I paid. I mean, heck, at least the seller isn't charging a flat $30 shipping and handling fee like a lot of infomercials... and sending it 3rd class mail.
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dericdesmond
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I used a money order so I didnt have to pay the inflated 5% paypal. You have a different way of looking at things thats for sure. You dont think the right thing to do was to return the $11 that was to be used for insurance I didnt get? $11 is an hour of work for me, i didnt work that hour just to put that extra $ in his pocket. Thanks for the input.
like others have said, you paid for insurance, and like most people, assumed it would be purchased from the shipping company. Instead, the seller pocketed the money, then claims, after the fact, he would have covered the loss himself....Well, anyone that skims a measly $11 on a $700 transaction is questionable in my book. The simple fact is you paid for something the seller did not provide: insurance through the shipper. Refund due....
And the packing was extremely slipshod. And irresponsible.
And the packing was extremely slipshod. And irresponsible.
The purpose if insurance is to cover an event in case something happens. True, nothing did happen, but the fact is Eric paid for it and LK didn't provide it.
It's easy to say that you'll self insure something, but when an item comes up missing will he actually do it?
Lets say the knife arrived but the tip was fubared. Do you think LK would have issued a refund, or would he have said just send it to Busse because it's under warranty (which I've heard he's said that to a couple people).
When anyone is dealing with knives (or any other object for that matter) that is expensive, it's good business practice to package them safely, securely, and provide insurance which was payed for. I find it hard to believe that "98%" of the people who buy off of LK do not want insurance.
True, it's $11. But it's also about being a good business man, it's more principal than monetary.
On a side note- As for shipping it in a bigger box, and the knife slides around and cuts up the packaging, that doesn't happen if you package it right. Stuffing newspaper prevents a knife from sliding around.
It's easy to say that you'll self insure something, but when an item comes up missing will he actually do it?
Lets say the knife arrived but the tip was fubared. Do you think LK would have issued a refund, or would he have said just send it to Busse because it's under warranty (which I've heard he's said that to a couple people).
When anyone is dealing with knives (or any other object for that matter) that is expensive, it's good business practice to package them safely, securely, and provide insurance which was payed for. I find it hard to believe that "98%" of the people who buy off of LK do not want insurance.
True, it's $11. But it's also about being a good business man, it's more principal than monetary.
On a side note- As for shipping it in a bigger box, and the knife slides around and cuts up the packaging, that doesn't happen if you package it right. Stuffing newspaper prevents a knife from sliding around.
No, the way I look at it is you both agreed that for $720, you would receive a knife. You received the knife. That should be the end of the story, but now, after seeing a sticker that said the shipping only cost $8 and some change, you're griping over an extra $11. Had you both agreed to $700 plus "actual shipping" then I could see the complaint, but the fact is you just said shipping and insurance. Would you still be griping if he insured it, and the postage sticker only said $14? Would you be on here posting several emails, and complaining that he overcharged you $6 on shipping? What I don't get is, you obviously know this guy is in the business of flipping Busse knives for a nice profit here on the forum, as is evidence by your participation in another thread about the guy... the one where you're in the top 8 posters, so you can't really claim ignorance to his acclaimed tactics. I gotta say, the way he has handled this has been top notch. He has said plainly that he made a mistake, but even having made that mistake, you were at no risk, because he would have covered the cost out of his own pocket. Given his business on the forum, I tend to believe he would back his word, because not doing that would have damaged his future business. He has plainly said he feels you are unhappy with the transaction, and has graciously offered to refund your money. I really don't get what the big deal is. If you're truly so hard up that $11 (one hour's work) is making you that sore over the deal (with a total value of 65.5 hours of work pre-tax), then why not just send the knife back in the first place? From hearing you complain that an extra hour's worth of your pay went into his pocket, and not something that ended up not being needed in the first place shows that maybe you should be putting your hard earned money into something a little more worthwile in the first place.
dericdesmond
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Noted, thanks again for the input :thumbup:
No, the way I look at it is you both agreed that for $720, you would receive a knife. You received the knife. That should be the end of the story, but now, after seeing a sticker that said the shipping only cost $8 and some change, you're griping over an extra $11. Had you both agreed to $700 plus "actual shipping" then I could see the complaint, but the fact is you just said shipping and insurance. Would you still be griping if he insured it, and the postage sticker only said $14? Would you be on here posting several emails, and complaining that he overcharged you $6 on shipping? What I don't get is, you obviously know this guy is in the business of flipping Busse knives for a nice profit here on the forum, as is evidence by your participation in another thread about the guy... the one where you're in the top 8 posters, so you can't really claim ignorance to his acclaimed tactics. I gotta say, the way he has handled this has been top notch. He has said plainly that he made a mistake, but even having made that mistake, you were at no risk, because he would have covered the cost out of his own pocket. Given his business on the forum, I tend to believe he would back his word, because not doing that would have damaged his future business. He has plainly said he feels you are unhappy with the transaction, and has graciously offered to refund your money. I really don't get what the big deal is. If you're truly so hard up that $11 (one hour's work) is making you that sore over the deal (with a total value of 65.5 hours of work pre-tax), then why not just send the knife back in the first place? From hearing you complain that an extra hour's worth of your pay went into his pocket, and not something that ended up not being needed in the first place shows that maybe you should be putting your hard earned money into something a little more worthwile in the first place.
I feel creating a thread whining about the fact that the seller made an extra 1.5% due to an oversight that ended up not being needed in anyway is questionable in my book.
You can what-if many different things. The fact is, the buyer got the knife, and the insurance wasn't needed. It's a moot point. So are all your other hypothetical situations and arguments. They dind't happen, so it doesn't concern this case. The seller admitted he made a mistake as an oversight and has agreed to refund the guys purchase price in return for the knife. What more do you want?
The guy got the knife he paid for. The seller has agreed to refund the guy in full. What's not being a good business man about that?
The seller said the price did not include shipping and insurance. The buyer paid extra for insurance, assuming the seller would procure said insurance through the po. The seller failed to purchase the insurance, instead, pocketed the money and "claimed" he would have covered it. This is not what the buyer paid for. It is pure cheese on the part of the seller.
What if the seller had offered to have the knife professionally packaged for a fee, then packed it himself and kept the fee? No, harm, it was still packaged? I don't think so- what was purchased was not delivered.
What if the seller had offered to have the knife professionally packaged for a fee, then packed it himself and kept the fee? No, harm, it was still packaged? I don't think so- what was purchased was not delivered.
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He paid for a service that was not provided. Whether it was needed or not is irrelevant. He paid for something that was not provided. He agreed to refund in full because he knew Deric wanted to keep the knife. What he did not do is offer the money back for what was clearly his own mistake.
dericdesmond
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And medic you really do make some nice points that I would usually agree with, unfortunately we are talking about someone who we all know darn well would ask for an additional $3 if our agreed amount of shipping happened to be a bit over. If Im gonna be held to a high standard when it comes to payin for all the extras well somshould the other party, fair is fair.
Not providing a service that the buyer paid for.
Eric paid for the knife, shipping, and insurance. He recieved 2 out of those 3 things.
As for hypothetical situations, recieving a damaged knife and avoiding the situation has happened before.
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"I would have to agree with you that his communication was good, but he sent me a knife that he had multiples of, it had a damaged handle from someone buffing the blade.
When I contacted Dan with this information he was very quick to respond with "have you contacted Scrapyard Knives? They will sought any problems out for you under thier warranty".
He sold a damaged knife as new then tried to push the problem back onto the manufacturer.
Also I recall the postage charge was $15 and the actual postage on the envelope was $5-6.
You would think that he could have checked the condition of the knife before he sent it,considering that he is a knife dealer and I paid using the personal tab (at Dan's request)on Paypal."
Being a great businessman is giving your cutomer what he paid for, and making the effort to try a little harder.
snowreaper1
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Its not a moot point just because the buyer received the knife without any potential problems.
If a drunk driver arrives saftely at his destination is it a moot point that he drove drunk but didnt get caught.
The buyer was given the impression that the extra fee was for a service the seller would purchase.
If LK is going to self insure he should make that known to the seller so they can decide if they want to trust his word.
What other fees does the seller ask for but instead pockets as extra profit? Paypal charges like 3-3.5% for a fee,
Lk charges 5%? On top of the already inflated prices...... who in their right mind would buy from this guy
if they knew his business ethics and tactics.
If a drunk driver arrives saftely at his destination is it a moot point that he drove drunk but didnt get caught.
The buyer was given the impression that the extra fee was for a service the seller would purchase.
If LK is going to self insure he should make that known to the seller so they can decide if they want to trust his word.
What other fees does the seller ask for but instead pockets as extra profit? Paypal charges like 3-3.5% for a fee,
Lk charges 5%? On top of the already inflated prices...... who in their right mind would buy from this guy
if they knew his business ethics and tactics.
If you have documented cases of the guy agreeing to a shipping charge, and then asking for more money because it came up to be a few dollars more, then I will recant everything I have stated. If you're making a false accusation because he's known for squeezing every dollar out of each sale, yet has never actually done something like that, then I stand firm in my points. Making hypothetical situations does not help your case.
I notice neither you nor anybody else has said what would be said if the package arrived with insurance, and the postage still turned out to be $6 less than paid. Would there still be an uproar over the difference?
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