My first Kizer

evilgreg said:
I'd be interested to see if yours is just defective, or if other folks with the same model also have a weak detent. I'm not a big fan of knives that are shitty flippers by design, like all the Hinderers I've handled. I always wonder why would they put a flipper on the tang if they weren't going to have a detent that would give you the snap to actually open it?



Well, if I'd have done that with Spyderco, I'd never ended up the Spyderco lover I am now. The first Military I received, new from an authorized dealer, was slightly defective and had to be returned. I've also seen lemons from other popular brands, I think it's just a fact of life.

My Kizer showed up sealed in a bag inside the box, so I doubt the dealer tried flipping mine before sending it to me. My little 3404 has a great detent, incidentally, it flips so well I didn't even nano-oil the pivot like I usually do when I had it disassembled.
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After reading a couple of your replies i decided to change course and give them another shot.

Well i just emailed the dealer and told him if he has another of the same model in stock that i would be willing to give it another shot and accept an exchange but only if he inspects it before it leaves his shop so i guess we'll see
if it was just an aberration or not.
 
Good for you sechip. With the good reports that have been posted I would think you may have gotten a lemon. I will say that my Klecker felt a little funny until I took it apart and cleaned the grease out and replace it with Miltec. Now it is as smooth as any knife I have that doesn't have bearings that is! Still I am happy with it, and hope the Gingrich GTI I have coming will be just as good.:thumbup::)
 
cutter17 said:
Good for you sechip. With the good reports that have been posted I would think you may have gotten a lemon. I will say that my Klecker felt a little funny until I took it apart and cleaned the grease out and replace it with Miltec. Now it is as smooth as any knife I have that doesn't have bearings that is! Still I am happy with it, and hope the Gingrich GTI I have coming will be just as good.:thumbup::)
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That was the main reason that i did it was all the other glowing recommendations and I also hope that my first one was just a fluke.
 
cutter17 said:
So, my Kiser Klecker has arrived. I am going to do this first impressions as the bad and the good points that I see and that appeal to me. I will try not to gush, which I have a tendency to do sometimes.

BAD
- as already mentioned a few times, the proprietary pivot
- metric screws, if you do not have metric tools

GOOD
- out of box everything is centered
- scales fit flush with no gaps
- opening is smooth throughout the entire arc
- lockup is excellent, with the liner edge being completely covered and the liner and blade tang are flush with one another on the left side leaving plenty of room for wear, and it takes a strong push to unlock, not sticky, just strong
- blade grinds are even from back to tip, symmetrical, and razor sharp
- clip can be placed for tip up carry, which I did
- ceramic detent ball, bad/good?
- in the last 1/4" of closing it is like the blade is sucked down and the liner snaps over to keep it closed
- blade has a nicely done stonewash finish
- the three backspacer's are machined on the ends so that they fit into the liner's, make for stronger construction? i would think so
- bronze washer's

I took the knife apart to clean up the grease that was in the pivot. I have a small pair of pliers that are padded with thin leather and I used this to take the pivot screw out. Once apart, I cleaned out the grease and applied a little Miltec. I reassembled the knife and switched the clip to tip up carry.

I know I got my money's worth, and think that this knife produced anywhere else might double in price, of course I have NO way of verifying this statement, it is just what I think after handling and playing with it for all of two hour's. Long term will tell the tale. But no more than I will need to use this knife, I doubt that info will come from me.

I am very encouraged that this is a well built knife, and I look forward to getting the Gingrich designed GTi next week since I just placed my order for it.

Hope I was not "gushy" in my account of this knife, and take it for what it is worth. I've had plenty of good knives to go through my hands, and I do count this one in that group.:thumbup::)
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Something I meant to post with my review was the specs of a few things because I am a little OCD about certain parts of my knives.

BLADE: .159" thick at it's thickest point
LINER's: .080" thick, think liner's on the ZT0200
WEIGHT: 7.4 ounces

These are some things about a larger folder that I like to see.

Something else I would like to address are the screws. I have no problem with the number, does not faze me in any way, but I would rather see them flush instead of sticking out as they do.
 
evilgreg said:
Great--I look forward to that and wish you luck with getting it going.

In the interim, though, any idea when and where I'll be able to order a ki4423?
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Hi, evilgreg:

This model is currently waiting for final approval on whether to make it to production. If it reaches the production stage, it will be available through the regular Kizer dealer networks.

Thanks.

David
 
David,

Thanks for joining this thread, answering questions and for the information that you plan a Kizer forum.

It would be helpful to know whether you are the owner of Kizer, a company officer, or spokesman.

Sal Glesser, founder of Spyderco, personally answers questions in Spyderco's own company forum, as do a number of other owners. There's no substitute for such direct customer contact and it helps generate strong loyalty. I wish you and Kizer the same.
 
Hi, flash900:

I am an employee of Kizer, you can consider me the sole official contact for Kizer Cutlery on this forum. I have direct access to the owner and other officers of Kizer if the questions require their input.

Thank you.

David
 
Hi, Flash900:

Since we are in the process of applying for our own manufacturer's forum, I'm going to wait until that forum is active to put more information about Kizer in there. I don't want to side track this thread which should be about user experience with Kizer.

Thank you.

David.
 
David,

While you're at it please put the correct blade length on your website and other literature.

It would be nice if your website had a few pictures of your facilities (including the EDM & CNC machines, raw steel, workbenches, etc.) and warranty information.

Additionally, information on collaborations, 2-4 way clip carry, pivot screw, etc.

Thank you for being forthcoming and hopefully soon even more responsive once you have your manufacturer forum setup.
 
I had a chance to look at several Kizer knives today. They all flipped fine and locked up OK. They seemed as good as knives made by and for US companies and very keenly priced.
 
Also bought my first Kizer, the KI401B. I had to send my first knife back because the deployment was way too gritty and the blade centering was off-centered. That being said, the second knife that I was sent is perfectly centered and after a very short break in period it flips like a dream. I am very impressed with fit and finish of this knife and aesthetically it is a thing of beauty! All politics aside, and notwithstanding the ambiguity of the Kizer brand/company, I'm very proud to own this knife and it's the best money ($159) that I've ever spent on a knife.
 
scion88 said:
Also bought my first Kizer, the KI401B. I had to send my first knife back because the deployment was way too gritty and the blade centering was off-centered. That being said, the second knife that I was sent is perfectly centered and after a very short break in period it flips like a dream. I am very impressed with fit and finish of this knife and aesthetically it is a thing of beauty! All politics aside, and notwithstanding the ambiguity of the Kizer brand/company, I'm very proud to own this knife and it's the best money ($159) that I've ever spent on a knife.
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Glad to hear your second one is better because i too ordered a KI401B and mine was also extremely gritty in addition to having a very weak detent, so mine is on the way back for an exchange and hopefully i'll have the same luck you did!
 
Well, I just received my second Kizer about an hour ago. This one is t he Ki 3404, It is a slightly smaller flipper, despite the Kizer website listing my first knife and this one as having the same blade length. Although it doesn't (can't yet) have a lot of smooth-in time I have to say the initial flipping action leaves a little to be desired. It is 'scrapey' for about 1/2 of the blade movement range. I have not disassembled it, but it as well as my first one a 5/32 hex head fits the pivot perfectly. I have put a few drops of Nano oil on it and it has smoothed out considerably already, but still takes a little wrist to open reliably. I'm hopeful that it continues to wear in, loosening the pivot, didn't do it, but did cause the blade centering to go to hell in a handbasket. Otherwise the fit and finish are spot on. It is beautifully heat colored, and the handles are then highly polished. Very smooth but still somehow solid in the grip. The blade on this one, like my first is very sharp and has a beautiful grind on it. My only other gripe about this one is the same as the first- clip is only placeable one way, tip down facing forward for right side carry. I would say my general impression is that this is a very nice knife, and although I wish it had a better flipping action, I am actually pleased with this knife overall. One thing that has occurred to me is that I like that Kizer offers knives with symmetrical handle materials, the longer I look at and buy knives, I can't think of a good reason for the hideous one side Ti, one side gross ass G-10. I have actually made G-10 a don't buy reason for me, can't think of reason to use it other than it's cheaper. Yea to Kizer for offering knives with both sides Ti or other matching materials!
 
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Fish30114 said:
I have actually made G-10 a don't buy reason for me, can't think of reason to use it other than it's cheaper.
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Not just cheaper, but much lighter and still very resilient. That's why a SMF weighs less than 5 ounces instead of 7+, but it still an exceptionally sturdy knife.
 
Fish30114 said:
Well, I just received my second Kizer about an hour ago. This one is t he Ki 3404, It is a slightly smaller flipper, despite the Kizer website listing my first knife and this one as having the same blade length. Although it doesn't (can't yet) have a lot of smooth-in time I have to say the initial flipping action leaves a little to be desired. It is 'scrapey' for about 1/2 of the blade movement range. I have not disassembled it, but it as well as my first one a 5/32 hex head fits the pivot perfectly. I have put a few drops of Nano oil on it and it has smoothed out considerably already, but still takes a little wrist to open reliably. I'm hopeful that it continues to wear in, loosening the pivot, didn't do it, but did cause the blade centering to go to hell in a handbasket. Otherwise the fit and finish are spot on. It is beautifully heat treated, and the handles are then highly polished. Very smooth but still somehow solid in the grip. The blade on this one, like my first is very sharp and has a beautiful grind on it. My only other gripe about this one is the same as the first- clip is only placeable one way, tip down facing forward for right side carry. I would say my general impression is that this is a very nice knife, and although I wish it had a better flipping action, I am actually pleased with this knife overall. One thing that has occurred to me is that I like that Kizer offers knives with symmetrical handle materials, the longer I look at and buy knives, I can't think of a good reason for the hideous one side Ti, one side gross ass G-10. I have actually made G-10 a don't buy reason for me, can't think of reason to use it other than it's cheaper. Yea to Kizer for offering knives with both sides Ti or other matching materials!
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If you have a longer screw, the 3404 clip works pretty well moved to the standoff hole nearest the opposite end (I used a frame screw pilfered from a Bee L05-1):

AX43IjR.jpg
 
Evilgreg, that's a good tip on moving the clip to a standoff screw hole. I'll look into doing that.
Comeuppance, I didn't realize there could be that big a weight difference in G-10, IME Titanium is pretty light. Sturdy--no questions there, but ugly doesn't get supplanted for attractive by sturdy for me.
 
I have had my kizer, a 4401c for about a week or so. The good: a expectionaly well built knife. Centered, great lockup, zero blade play in any direction. Smooth action. Feels great in the hand and could easily be confused for a much more expensive knife.

The bad: The flipping action is poor. Not gritty or rough in any way but the detent is almost not even there. I can only get it fully opened without wrist movement when holding it blade up so it basically just falls the rest of the way open. It is almost identical to my combative edge m1. But just like that knife everything else is so perfect I can overlook needing to put a little wrist into it. Actually it is also very much like the Hinderer flipping experience. Maybe the designers used that action as a basis on how a flipper should be...I just wish it worked more like a Brous.
 
SurpriseGoat said:
I have had my kizer, a 4401c for about a week or so. The good: a expectionaly well built knife. Centered, great lockup, zero blade play in any direction. Smooth action. Feels great in the hand and could easily be confused for a much more expensive knife.

The bad: The flipping action is poor. Not gritty or rough in any way but the detent is almost not even there. I can only get it fully opened without wrist movement when holding it blade up so it basically just falls the rest of the way open. It is almost identical to my combative edge m1. But just like that knife everything else is so perfect I can overlook needing to put a little wrist into it. Actually it is also very much like the Hinderer flipping experience. Maybe the designers used that action as a basis on how a flipper should be...I just wish it worked more like a Brous.
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Both my Kizers (3404A1 and 3404A3) are flipping great now. It needed a couple of drops of lubricant and several open/close cycles.

I definitely agree on the subpar flipping action of both Hinderer XM-18 and even worse my Combative Edge M1. The latter is made by Fox Knives and my Fox Knives Citadel Deimos has an equally subpar flipping action.

Of my four Brous flippers (Division CF, Reloader G-10, T4 G-10 and Bionic) only the T4 has excellent flipping action. The rest are fair to okay.
 
Fish30114 said:
Well, I just received my second Kizer about an hour ago. This one is t he Ki 3404, It is a slightly smaller flipper, despite the Kizer website listing my first knife and this one as having the same blade length. Although it doesn't (can't yet) have a lot of smooth-in time I have to say the initial flipping action leaves a little to be desired. It is 'scrapey' for about 1/2 of the blade movement range. I have not disassembled it, but it as well as my first one a 5/32 hex head fits the pivot perfectly. I have put a few drops of Nano oil on it and it has smoothed out considerably already, but still takes a little wrist to open reliably. I'm hopeful that it continues to wear in, loosening the pivot, didn't do it, but did cause the blade centering to go to hell in a handbasket. Otherwise the fit and finish are spot on. It is beautifully heat treated, and the handles are then highly polished. Very smooth but still somehow solid in the grip. The blade on this one, like my first is very sharp and has a beautiful grind on it. My only other gripe about this one is the same as the first- clip is only placeable one way, tip down facing forward for right side carry. I would say my general impression is that this is a very nice knife, and although I wish it had a better flipping action, I am actually pleased with this knife overall. One thing that has occurred to me is that I like that Kizer offers knives with symmetrical handle materials, the longer I look at and buy knives, I can't think of a good reason for the hideous one side Ti, one side gross ass G-10. I have actually made G-10 a don't buy reason for me, can't think of reason to use it other than it's cheaper. Yea to Kizer for offering knives with both sides Ti or other matching materials!
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There is hope yet! I have disliked this method of construction from the first day I saw it. I tried a couple ZT's, and I like ZT, but I got rid of these quickly. I grew up with one side of the knife matching the other side and am too old to change.

Fish, you are a man after my on heart!:thumbup::)
 
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