My first Kizer

POCEH KOCEB said:
Forget about Kizer for a second, IMO: Chinese in general are not capable of producing good design, design that the US street will find functional... Geo-politically, as a social system, Chinese doesn't have the base to come up with designs as Hinderer or whatever else in this line, their own original designs does not make any sense to US market, that's why they are copying successful designs or mixing and matching according to the target market, that's it... This is the trend now, Americans are looking for expensive materials and shiny, looks-like-tactical designs, this is what Kizer is producing...
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Wow, just wow.
 
POCEH KOCEB said:
Forget about Kizer for a second, IMO: Chinese in general are not capable of producing good design, design that the US street will find functional... Geo-politically, as a social system, Chinese doesn't have the base to come up with designs as Hinderer or whatever else in this line, their own original designs does not make any sense to US market, that's why they are copying successful designs or mixing and matching according to the target market, that's it... This is the trend now, Americans are looking for expensive materials and shiny, looks-like-tactical designs, this is what Kizer is producing...
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Well, yes and no. I'm sure that the Chinese are capable of making very nicely designed knives that just don't have exposure over here. They also have no reason to. The Chinese produce exports, whatever can be made in a large quantity and sold at a competitive price. However, they also have to produce products for the domestic market. For your average Chinese knife nut, a Kizer might be as close as you are going to get to a Hinderer, Strider, Etc. There seems to be a market oversees as well, namely in the US, perhaps in Africa and Latin America.
 
I agree with you goldie. I have a Kizer arriving tomorrow and once I have had a chance to look it over, disassemble it, and put it back together, I will decide whether or not I go ahead with the 2nd purchase, then the third purchase. It's a knife, plain and simple, a new manufacturer in the market building knives that have been well received by the people here who have actual bought one. I like a well built, sturdy, very sturdy, acceptable steel (I would have no problem paying the $123 I paid for 154CM), folder. This is they type of knife that has driven me to collect for the past 48-50 years, and so far I have spotted three Kizer knives that seem to fit the bill. So I am willing to spend a little over $100 to try them out, I've spent more for a knife from a company that I had never dealt with before, and it turned out not to be to my liking at all. So you win some and you lose some, but when people who have been a part of these forums for a long time, 10+ years, come on and post how pleased they are with the Kizer product, and me knowing that these folk like the same things (for the most part) I do in a knife, then I sit up and take notice. I just don't feel I can be steered in the wrong direction by listening to these people!

Like goldie, I see that this thread has taken a turn that I wish it had not, but I guess Kizer is a hot button topic. There are people saying that Kizer is committing design theft, lying about the materials used, and building a mediocre product at best. And I would sit up and listen if ANY of these folks had actually purchased a Kizer.

At any rate, tomorrow I should know one way or the other, and forgive me for being a simple lover of knives, and for seeking out some knives that "speak" to me, after all, what has anybody got to lose here except for me!:)
 
Bugout Bill said:
...For your average Chinese knife nut, a Kizer might be as close as you are going to get to a Hinderer, Strider, Etc..
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But wasn't this the idea about the Kevin John's knives ? He started manufacturing direct copies of popular US models for the Chinese market, for those who cannot afford few hundred dollars for a pocket knife ? Those knives ended up here, same with Kizers - most of their designs doesn't make sense, at least to me, they're nice and shiny but I don't see those models very much street oriented, I could be mistaking but they look like mostly show off knives than the one you'll actually do some work with... They went into details about so much things but forgot to think about different options for the clip i.e. ?
...What I'm saying is: I don't think they know what a guy on the street wants from a knife as a practical setup, you cannot expect design for a knife that make sense, from a designer that lives in country where those things were forbidden till yesterday, they just don't have the feel for such things the way most people her have, the one that grew up with knives in their pockets...
 
cutter17 said:
Like goldie, I see that this thread has taken a turn that I wish it had not, but I guess Kizer is a hot button topic. There are people saying that Kizer is committing design theft, lying about the materials used, and building a mediocre product at best. And I would sit up and listen if ANY of these folks had actually purchased a Kizer.

At any rate, tomorrow I should know one way or the other, and forgive me for being a simple lover of knives, and for seeking out some knives that "speak" to me, after all, what has anybody got to lose here except for me!:)
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Latent butt-hurt, boredom, and people who enjoy arguments are never a good combination. ;)

I don't think anyone here is screaming "don't get a Kizer". It is a company that seemingly appeared out of nowhere and there is still something of a shortage of information about them. I think there are some legitimate questions to raised about them, but until we get solid answers it remains conjecture. Ultimately, it is your money and your choice. If you enjoy the knife and it does what you need it do, go for it. I went through a period of buying Chinese domestic knives, the usual stink was raised, but I got them anyway. I still like them.

I think that we all occasionally need to remember that we are talking about knives, not something as important or controversial as abortion or trade deficits.

POCEH KOCEB said:
But wasn't this the idea about the Kevin John's knives ? He started manufacturing direct copies of popular US models for the Chinese market, for those who cannot afford few hundred dollars for a pocket knife ? Those knives ended up here, same with Kizers - most of their designs doesn't make sense, at least to me, they're nice and shiny but I don't see those models very much street oriented, I could be mistaking but they look like mostly show off knives than the one you'll actually do some work with... They went into details about so much things but forgot to think about different options for the clip i.e. ?
...What I'm saying is: I don't think they know what a guy on the street wants from a knife as a practical setup, you cannot expect design for a knife that make sense, from a designer that lives in country where those things were forbidden till yesterday, they just don't have the feel for such things the way most people her have, the one that grew up with knives in their pockets...
Click to expand...

Some Chinamen might have gotten fed up with only getting fakes and wanted something domestic that had the wow factor of popular American tactical folders. Start up costs are cheap in China.
 
Bugout Bill said:
Latent butt-hurt, boredom, and people who enjoy arguments are never a good combination. ;)

I don't think anyone here is screaming "don't get a Kizer". It is a company that seemingly appeared out of nowhere and there is still something of a shortage of information about them. I think there are some legitimate questions to raised about them, but until we get solid answers it remains conjecture. Ultimately, it is your money and your choice. If you enjoy the knife and it does what you need it do, go for it. I went through a period of buying Chinese domestic knives, the usual stink was raised, but I got them anyway. I still like them.

I think that we all occasionally need to remember that we are talking about knives, not something as important or controversial as abortion or trade deficits.



Some Chinamen might have gotten fed up with only getting fakes and wanted something domestic that had the wow factor of popular American tactical folders. Start up costs are cheap in China.
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THIS is the truest statement to date imo, very good point BB.:thumbup::)
 
Bugout Bill said:
I think that we all occasionally need to remember that we are talking about knives, not something as important or controversial as abortion or trade deficits.
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Knives made in other countries imported to the US are not contributing to trade deficit? Since when?
 
So, my Kiser Klecker has arrived. I am going to do this first impressions as the bad and the good points that I see and that appeal to me. I will try not to gush, which I have a tendency to do sometimes.

BAD
- as already mentioned a few times, the proprietary pivot
- metric screws, if you do not have metric tools

GOOD
- out of box everything is centered
- scales fit flush with no gaps
- opening is smooth throughout the entire arc
- lockup is excellent, with the liner edge being completely covered and the liner and blade tang are flush with one another on the left side leaving plenty of room for wear, and it takes a strong push to unlock, not sticky, just strong
- blade grinds are even from back to tip, symmetrical, and razor sharp
- clip can be placed for tip up carry, which I did
- ceramic detent ball, bad/good?
- in the last 1/4" of closing it is like the blade is sucked down and the liner snaps over to keep it closed
- blade has a nicely done stonewash finish
- the three backspacer's are machined on the ends so that they fit into the liner's, make for stronger construction? i would think so
- bronze washer's

I took the knife apart to clean up the grease that was in the pivot. I have a small pair of pliers that are padded with thin leather and I used this to take the pivot screw out. Once apart, I cleaned out the grease and applied a little Miltec. I reassembled the knife and switched the clip to tip up carry.

I know I got my money's worth, and think that this knife produced anywhere else might double in price, of course I have NO way of verifying this statement, it is just what I think after handling and playing with it for all of two hour's. Long term will tell the tale. But no more than I will need to use this knife, I doubt that info will come from me.

I am very encouraged that this is a well built knife, and I look forward to getting the Gingrich designed GTi next week since I just placed my order for it.

Hope I was not "gushy" in my account of this knife, and take it for what it is worth. I've had plenty of good knives to go through my hands, and I do count this one in that group.:thumbup::)
 
Glad you got it & have positive feedback.I see the good far outweighs the bad.I hope another design catches my eye,but for now im satisfied with the 2 i have.Nice to get a bargain once in a while...
 
There are actually three that I would like to get; the Klecker I just got, the Gingrich I just ordered, and the Ki5401A2 which has the 4.7" blade. After that I will just have to wait and see what Kizer does.

I meant to mention that Kizer isn't afraid to use loctite!
 
Well i finally received my knife today and am happy everyone else seems to be generally happy with their knives and wish i could report the same, while the knife has overall good fit and finish like
the lock up which is excellent with no play and centering is right on and it feels great in my hand but the knife has an unbelievably weak detent which will not allow me to fully deploy the blade.
Couple that with the roughest action i have ever experienced in a folding knife, literally you can hear this thing in the next room! I liken it to the sound of an old schoolyard swing on chains that whines and squeaks, the grinding and grittiness might
Be able to be taken care of with a good cleaning and lubing but will do nothing for the lack of a detent, which sucks because this model is KI401B is advertised as a "flipper" it would be nice to you know.... be able to flip it!
So back it goes and lesson learned, it really is a shame because i really wanted to like this knife and maybe i got a lemon but for now i'm done, maybe when they come out with bearings i'll give them another shot but till then i'm sticking with the known
Makers and manufacturers.

Scott
 
I would think a weak detent would allow one to deploy the blade way more easily than if it was a very strong detent? Beats me. keepem sharp
 
That is what I thought. He must have meant that the detent was to strong. Sorry to hear that you had a bad experience.
 
The detent being too weak makes a poor flipper - there isn't enough resistance for it to build up pressure and snap open. I had the same issue with an xm-18.
 
My 401 & gingrich are fine, they make no noise. i was afraid someone would get a lemon,but it does happen.ive had a few knives that had problems,some were even customs costing way more than these.The only noisy knife i have is a kershaw dimension. when you close it it creaks & squeeks like a rusty door,due to the assist bar.my detents seem fine.Hey,even toyota & lexus have had recalls,nothing is perfect.When i ordered my 401x,i knew this knife was going to be scrutinized to a very high degree, & the slightest thing i didnt like would send it back.glad it wasnt the case.
 
Comeuppance said:
The detent being too weak makes a poor flipper - there isn't enough resistance for it to build up pressure and snap open. I had the same issue with an xm-18.
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Exactly! You can't build up enough torque to fully deploy the blade the detent is so weak that it just kind of flops about a quarter of the way open because it is so easy to overcome the detent resistance.

I too had an xm18 and sold it because of the lack of a detent and this one was even worse.
 
sechip said:
Exactly! You can't build up enough torque to fully deploy the blade the detent is so weak that it just kind of flops about a quarter of the way open because it is so easy to overcome the detent resistance.
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Yeah, I'd return that ASAP and/or request a replacement. Weak detents aren't really fixable outside of potentially bending the lockbar further to increase tension - but that will void any warranty and absolutely preclude returns.

I had the same problem with both Junkyard Dogs I have owned too, come to think of it. Same with all three 0566s I have de-assisted, which has led me to give up on the product altogether. Three brand new 0566s, each about two months apart, with very spaced out production dates (first one had a serial number under 50, second one was in the 300s, third one was in the 800s).

It really is very frustrating. 100% of the point of a flipper to me is having it snap open pleasantly.
 
Yeah it really is a shame because i love the looks and feel of the knife in hand... if it only flipped!
I called the dealer [which was a different one from other people i believe] and asked him don't you check your knives before you ship them out and he said yes he does but i don't understand how he could have let one out the door like this.
As soon as he gets the knife back i will be getting my funds returned.... don't want to chance another lemon.
 
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