Net To Me

[bld522]

"PayPal gift" and "PayPal + 3.5%" (or more) are still alive and well on the Exchange forums. What's going to make that change? Or are we just going to continue railing against them ad nauseum with no solution in sight?

 

[Ken44]

Prohibited and restricted items

Before listing your item, make sure it's allowed on eBay

The list of prohibited and restricted .

Prohibited and restricted items

firearms, weapons, and knives – examples include pepper spray, replicas, and stun guns (see also military items)


For those who think they are the righteous here is a list of prohibited items from pay pal. Check item#21 and #36.

Then why do some buyers say pay pal discreet? If people are going to quote rules please by all means quote all of them not just bits and pieces.

I have no idea why some buyers would say that??? Never seen it, or had one say it to me. You quoted Ebay rules, not PP.
And as I said before there is a difference in "prohibited", and "restricted".
Some Knive's are restricted, but NOT prohibited.

screw ebay. the is other sites just as big as ebay and they dont care if you are selling switchblades.

I agree, but this thread isn't about Ebay. Or a PP bashing thread. We may need one of those though

 

[Ken44]

"PayPal gift" and "PayPal + 3.5%" (or more) are still alive and well on the Exchange forums. What's going to make that change? Or are we just going to continue railing against them ad nauseum with no solution in sight?

RevDevil made the below post. They will be talking about it, but things take time, and I'm sure they will have to talk to Spark about it. He's at SHOT right now.

I'll bring it up, another mod and I were talking about this just a few nights ago. It's something that bothers enough people and we should have a rule in place.

 

[Lone_Wolfe]

"PayPal gift" and "PayPal + 3.5%" (or more) are still alive and well on the Exchange forums. What's going to make that change? Or are we just going to continue railing against them ad nauseum with no solution in sight?

To be honest, I think that's here to stay. I know there's a fair share of people that don't like it, and a share that like having the option. I won't condemn either side, and I won't let it be the deal breaker for me. The dealbreaker comes when the seller accepts pp gift ONLY. I'll willing pay the fees to have some buyer protection. I just do the math before I type those bank-breaking 3 words.

 

[high desert]

I guess it's has not been a problem for me as it's easy to calculate the sellers bottom line and see if it's a good deal. I am responsible first for my money. If the seller has low feedback I will pay the fees anyways for my own piece of mind. If I have had multiple deals with an individual and I consider him a friend, gift is totally acceptable and legal. Most of all I don't have the right to tell someone how to conduct their sales add.

 

[high desert]

I have no idea why some buyers would say that??? Never seen it, or had one say it to me. You quoted Ebay rules, not PP.
And as I said before there is a difference in "prohibited", and "restricted".
Some Knive's are restricted, but NOT prohibited.

Ken44. This list came up while doing a pay pal restricted items search. Yes it an Pay Pal list for Ebay. Do your own research and post what you find out.

 

[Brisket]

I doubt any seller here intends to convey a message that they want to be straight up with you the buyer but cheat the financial intermediary out of their transfer fee with a little help from you. I just think much of the terms of sale verbage we see in the exchange is simply a matter of sellers copying what others have stated before to a point where they have been considered customary by some of the community. This issue has bothered me as well.

When I see a paid membership seller with 100% feedback state that he prefers payment for goods be rendered as a gift I don't think that he is necessarily a dishonest person, I just think that he hasn't really thought things out and simply failed to realize the contradictoriness of the message being sent to prospective buyers. I do know, however, that many out there that are otherwise honest folks think nothing of cheating a financial institution, insurance company, government agency, etc. because they feel that they have not been given a square deal in the past and see it on a regular basis in my profession. That kind of thing has been going on since forever, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be rules and laws to discourage it and I don't care to be a party to it. As such, I think it would be in the best interest of the the forum to have and enforce rules that discourage defrauding any party in the exchange and by that I mean, at the least, terms of sale that state paypal by gift only should be prohibited.

Now "money order or paypal + 4%" is really no different than having one price for money order payments and another for paypal payments and results in the same "net to me" amount without introducing fraud into the transaction. If i'm buying a $100 knife on the exchange it is well worth the $4 to me to have the buyer protection afforded by paypal, not have to acquire a money order and not have to wait several more days to get my knife. As a prospective buyer I think it appears better to see a price that includes all fees (transaction fee, shipping, handling, insurance), but if a seller finds it necessary to break it all down then that is his business. Astute buyers realize there is no free lunch and that all inclusive offers have added expenses built into the price, but the fact is these pricing models work. Buyers don't care about what the seller nets, they only care about what they pay in total and what they get in return.

As far as insurance goes, when I pay for something I expect it to be delivered to me in the condition described in the offer. My job as the seller is to pay for the item and provide the correct shipping address. The buyers job is to ship it to me in the condition described. If it got damaged in transit or delivered to the wrong address that is not my fault or responsibility and I should not be expected to pay for the insurance to protect the sellers backside. Maybe the seller didn't package the item well or labeled it with the wrong address. In most cases the seller selects and transacts business with the shipping carrier and if there is a problem it is then the sellers responsibility to sort out the problem or make a claim with the carrier. Sellers should understand that Paypal will, in most all cases, side with the buyer in a damaged or non-delivered goods dispute with or without shipping insurance.

 

[Ken44]

Ken44. This list came up while doing a pay pal restricted items search. Yes it an Pay Pal list for Ebay. Do your own research and post what you find out.

See PP's PoS, or post #30 about "Gift".
I could care less who does it, I just choose not to myself unless it is in fact a gift.

And you may want to Google "restricted, and "prohibited".
Again, there is a restriction on knives, meaning some are prohibited. I have never sold a knife here that was on their prohibited list.

I hope no one else quotes me

 

[high desert]

Helps us out and show us this prohibited list so we all can conduct ourselves with the highest standard.

See PP's PoS, or post #30 about "Gift".
I could care less who does it, I just choose not to myself unless it is in fact a gift.

And you may want to Google "restricted, and "prohibited".
Again, there is a restriction on knives, meaning some are prohibited. I have never sold a knife here that was on their prohibited list.

I hope no one else quotes me

 

[bigmark408]

All this talk about cheating makes me wonder if ebay or paypal has any out of country accounts.

 

[Ken44]

Helps us out and show us this prohibited list so we all can conduct ourselves with the highest standard.

Do your own looking up, or just call PP if you really want to know

I will tell you ivory, and auto's are on it.


Peace man, I don't want to argue with you. There is no rule against selling Gift, or having PP fee's here on BF, so you can list it however you want.



Edit- I do have a gripe with PP. It has had my Gold membership held up:grumpy: Spark has to do them manually, and he is at SHOT.
I should have used a CC dangit. First time I've had to look at all of these adds.

 

[bigmark408]

Why should the seller eat the fees for your credit card while trying to offer his best price? May be an easier way if is to offer a discount for a money order. I know, Let's have 3 prices for the way you want to pay, then 3 prices for how you might want it shipped, let me add my time to go to the post office to get you that quote and how about insurance? Why don't you just pay more from a retailer because you think it's easier and simpler? I know he's not in it for a profit. But you don't buy from a retailer you would rather buy here so you can ask for a discount on a knife. What bothers me is when someone complains about price yet is to stingy to have a gold membership.

Theres folks that complain about a free beer.

 

[bld522]

I just think much of the terms of sale verbage we see in the exchange is simply a matter of sellers copying what others have stated before to a point where they have been considered customary by some of the community.

This ^^^^^

If folks who buy and sell on the Exchange don't happen to mosey on over here to find out what the fuss is all about, the herd instinct will continue to prevail. And if you bother to remind someone in the middle of their FS thread that they're violating the PayPal ToS or charging for insurance when they shouldn't be, you will receive an infraction. Go figure!

The system is rigged in favor of those who don't know the rules, don't want to know the rules, or know the rules but don't want to play by them, and human nature isn't going to change because we'd like it to. If something's going to be done, Spark and the mods will have to do it . . . PERIOD!

 

[CWL]

All this talk about cheating makes me wonder if ebay or paypal has any out of country accounts.

List of countries that PayPal operates in and will transfer money to.
https://www.paypal.com/worldwide/



Here are countries that PP will not (or cannot) do business in. (No idea why Puerto Rico is there, or even listed as a country)
1. Bangladesh
2. Belarus
3. British Indian Ocean Territory
4. Cameroon
5. Côte d'Ivoire
6. Equatorial Guinea
7. Georgia
8. Ghana
9. Haiti
10. Lebanon
11. Macedonia
12. Moldova
13. Monaco
14. Nigeria
15. Pakistan
16. Paraguay
17. Puerto Rico
18. Serbia and Montenegro
19. Uzbekistan
20. Zimbabwe

 

[dericdesmond]

I always include everything in my price (minus global) but it doesnt keep me from buying a knife from someone who does ask. The simple and most widely accepted thing is to do a little math (2.9%+.30) and add it to your price. This way everyone's happy. However, if I see a good deal of which I have to add the fee, if it adds up to a good deal that I will unlikely find elsewhere, I jump. Some sellers are just oblivious to it and unlikely even realize its frowned upon.

I would expect, anyone who refuses to deal with someone because they request the buyer pay the fee, is equally diligent about paying there own state use tax as required by law, much more serious then breaking a paypal rule

 

[dericdesmond]

One thing that irks me a bit is when a seller posts a price with no mention of fees, just to get a "please add the fee's or send as gift" via email :thumbdn:

 

[TheModernNeanderthal]

I'm glad I found this thread, I've actually never really thought about it before. I've always included my shopping costs but never paypal fees. Seems only fair to state the price including all associated fees and costs, makes it much simpler and fair for the customer.

Thanks,

Nick

 

[Allen R.]

I'm glad I found this thread too I didn't know it turned so many people off a thread or was a violation of paypals TOS to ask the buyer to pay the fees from now on ill either eat the fees or just add them into the asking price, no more price + fees, I apologize If any of you guys wanted a knife from me but were turned away because I always say xxx dollars + 3.5% for the fees, also dunno why some people paypal charges 2% fees while others it's 3% and 3.5% I used to say 3% until I did that a few times and realized I'm actually charged 3.5% on every transaction I make I guess it varies depending on what state your in? Either way it won't be seen again in my sales thread.

 

[choombak]

I have used Paypal since it began (they gave you $5 credit to join back then) since I value the guarantees PP gives to make sure that the money goes to who it should, and that they'll protect the participants if something shady goes down. -I have enjoyed their buyers protection on several occasions. This money transfer also guarantees anononymity since you don't have to give CC numbers or bank info to the other side. For this service, I gladly pay their fees.

Some people (not all) just want everything for free.

+1. Precisely why I use PayPal as well. And though there are issues at times, I find it to be the most acceptable way of doing business. If you factor the time spent in getting a MO at a post office, I think PayPal ends up being less expensive than other forms of accepting money.

Plus also remember PayPal deals with real money and they need to be overly conservative in doing it (just like banks). This can be perceived as a hindrance, but so long as they protect the money, it is acceptable for me.

 

[choombak]

One thing that irks me a bit is when a seller posts a price with no mention of fees, just to get a "please add the fee's or send as gift" via email :thumbdn:

It's a red light on my moral compass, since accepting gift payment for something that is not is ethically incorrect and borders on being criminal (just like trying to subvert taxes or black money).