New "designer line" of knives from Ganzo = Adimanti

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DocJD said:
o_O IMO , ideally a "forum" is a place to freely exchange information and differing opinions between members , in a somewhat civil manner .

Otherwise it's just an infomercial or an intellectually incestuous exclusive club .

Commercial self interest is understandable and valid , but the attendant extreme moral outrage seems excessive and misplaced . :(

I don't think it's wrong to recognize that Ganzo seems to be moving away from copying , even with the newer "Firebird" models and more so with the designer focused "Adimanti " line .

I should think that the forum might consider this trend, per se, to be a positive change .

A little carrot along with all that stick . ;)
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Absolutely agree, while this place does invite everyone’s input on all things sharp and pointy, it more than just a forum though, it’s a community that the majority of members are like minded in their passion for knives.
I also agree that some topics have been discussed so much, there’s really no need to continue to try and convince anyone that things have changed. As @danbot stated, judgement has been passed and trying to change that is a moot point.
 
Chronovore said:
But we really don't know. Who makes the Chinese-produced knives for Kershaw, CRKT, etc? What else do those manufacturers make? Of the "good" Chinese brands, which ones got their start doing this kind of stuff? Which of their employees did? How did some of these Chinese companies learn to make knives in the first place? What agreements did they have with which other companies for selling in which corners of the world market?

I knew a few expats who did QC for Asian manufacturing in other industries. According to them, knockoffs and store brands were often made in the same factories as the real deal, sometimes one line over from the real deal, by the same workers using the same materials.

I get it. Personally, I won't buy a blatant knockoff. However, I think it's crucial to understand the realities of Chinese manufacturing and how it came to be before we go passing judgement on a company that's chosen to stamp their name on what they make. I also think we should be careful using the word "theft" as if Ganzo broke into your house and stole your stuff. What we're really talking about are intellectual property rights, design exclusivity, and possibly the law of geopolitical zones in the context of a global economy.
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Ganzo sucks.
 
Eli Chaps said:
I used to spend a lot of time on Spyderco's forum. Sal truly invoked his "shiny footprints" mantra and would not allow any bashing of competitors.

But he had no good words for Ganzo.
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He does seem to be a honorable man. I personally own some his products and can say I use them with pride.

I can say that I understand why he would feel that way about a competitor that copies his designs.

However, Ganzo is not going away, if we like it or not. Any new product that is not copied or clone based is an improvement, in my mind.

Will I ever purchase one of the new designer knives? I don’t think so.

I also will not condemn anyone that does. That seems like the wrong thing to do in my eyes.

Yet, I can’t help but feel that many forum members would if given the chance.
 
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sabre cat said:
Then you had better be very cautious as to what automobile
you drive, amongst other things.
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It's a good thing this is a knife forum and not an automobile forum or an other things forum.

Look, we know ganzo steals from and harms well respected good companies. We know that when good companies are hurt, it hurts our hobby. We know that this in turn hurts our community. That is the stance of this forum. So knowing all this, why choose to support the ganzo brand here? And if one chooses to support ganzo here, why be surprised, or hurt, or whatever, about the reaction you get here?

This really isn't that difficult to understand.
 
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If they stop making and selling clones and submit reasonable restitution to the companies they've stolen from without being asked then maybe. Since that won't ever happen I don't see me buying anything they aren't ripping off any more than I bought what they did rip off.
I get it, but just because the mafia decides to go legit doesn't mean the dead guys buried in Nevada deserts are alive again.
 
craytab said:
It's a good thing this is a knife forum and not an automobile forum or an other things forum.

Look, we know ganzo steals from and harms well respected good companies. We know that when good companies are hurt, it hurts our hobby. We know that this in turn hurts our community. That is the stance of this forum. So knowing all this, why choose to support the ganzo brand here? And if one chooses to support ganzo here, why be surprised, or hurt, or whatever, about the reaction you get here?

This really isn't that difficult to understand.
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Just hoping nobody goes nuts now and calls us soiboys for 72 solid hours.
 
craytab said:
It's a good thing this is a knife forum and not an automobile forum or an other things forum.

Look, we know ganzo steals from and harms well respected good companies. We know that when good companies are hurt, it hurts our hobby. We know that this in turn hurts our community. That is the stance of this forum. So knowing all this, why choose to support the ganzo brand here? And if one chooses to support ganzo here, why be surprised, or hurt, or whatever, about the reaction you get here?

This really isn't that difficult to understand.
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How are you not a Super Mod by now? You are literally B.F.P.
 
craytab said:
Tell that to sal.
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Well , really getting off topic here ...but I truly believe that their strict MAPP pricing policy is way more to blame for any lost business than Ganzo . I would be glad to tell Sal exactly that !

That's the sole reason I've mostly quit Spyderco ,and I used to buy them as my main brand . I bought a ton of 'em . It's slowed down even my Cold Steel buying , but their enforcement of MAPP is loose enough to find great bargains on older models still . Recently found an AD-10 for $100 BNIB . Try finding a deal like that on most brands with price controls .

Actual counterfeits are an entirely different and serious problem , IMO .

If somebody wants a Spyderco , Benchmade , Lion Steel etc ,or even something that might pass as one in appearance , they don't usually buy a $20 Ganzo semi-copy that will fool nobody . I neither support nor condone illegal copying of legitimate IP , just to be clear .

I really wanted to focus here on the positive aspects of Ganzo possibly getting away from copying and into supporting little known designers . Wouldn't that be a good thing ?
 
craytab said:
Read what I wrote again. You seem to have missed what I said completely.

And Ganzo did walk into someone else's business and take their stuff, quite literally.

All this has been discussed before. You seem to care passionately about this issue. As your position is not welcome, I'd suggest not wasting any more of your time trying to spread it here. There are plenty of other places on the internet that don't care about design theft, honesty, and integrity.
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It seems that you missed what I said as well. For what it's worth, I'm not passionate about this issue. I'm just trying to look at it in a broader and more accurate scope that takes into account certain realities. These realities are part of the industry, whether you like it or not. They became part of the industry and our beloved hobby as soon as the first "good" companies started outsourcing their production. That too is a complicated issue involving economics and government policy.

What does get me a little worked up is when bold and simple pronouncements are made from a position of limited scope, especially when that scope is kept narrow by purposeful ignorance. But hey, what do I know? I'm not welcome here on Blade Forums.

Would I be welcome if I promised to never buy another Ganzo? How about if I never buy from a company that pays an undisclosed Chinese company to make things for them? Maybe that's not thorough enough... Should I check and see what a company does with its profits, what politicians or policies they support, etc.?
 
They built their brand by intentionally copying work and designs others did. I find that to be disingenuous, and a shady way to conduct business.

I am unable to understand how people would be apologetic to this.

I’ve mentioned this before, but would lend the story of Ibanez guitars. They started off making copies and stealing designs of Gibson, and built enough revenue to eventually start making their own designs. Ironically, the CEO started complaining about the Koreans copying their stuff and undercutting their profits.

I just don’t like this practice. To each their own...
 
DocJD said:
Well , really getting off topic here ...but I truly believe that their strict MAPP pricing policy is way more to blame for any lost business than Ganzo . I would be glad to tell Sal exactly that !

That's the sole reason I've mostly quit Spyderco ,and I used to buy them as my main brand . I bought a ton of 'em . It's slowed down even my Cold Steel buying , but their enforcement of MAPP is loose enough to find great bargains on older models still . Recently found an AD-10 for $100 BNIB . Try finding a deal like that on most brands with price controls .

Actual counterfeits are an entirely different and serious problem , IMO .

If somebody wants a Spyderco , Benchmade , Lion Steel etc ,or even something that might pass as one in appearance , they don't usually buy a $20 Ganzo semi-copy that will fool nobody . I neither support nor condone illegal copying of legitimate IP , just to be clear .

I really wanted to focus here on the positive aspects of Ganzo possibly getting away from copying and into supporting little known designers . Wouldn't that be a good thing ?
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You know where to find sal. It would make more sense to go tell him your off topic rant than me here. And I'm sure he'd gladly tell you how badly these ganzo folks have hurt his business or even how they took pictures of spyderco prototypes at a show when it clearly wasn't allowed and they were asked not to. But hey! Let's talk positively about ganzo! :rolleyes:
 
Chronovore said:
It seems that you missed what I said as well. For what it's worth, I'm not passionate about this issue. I'm just trying to look at it in a broader and more accurate scope that takes into account certain realities. These realities are part of the industry, whether you like it or not. They became part of the industry and our beloved hobby as soon as the first "good" companies started outsourcing their production. That too is a complicated issue involving economics and government policy.

What does get me a little worked up is when bold and simple pronouncements are made from a position of limited scope, especially when that scope is kept narrow by purposeful ignorance. But hey, what do I know? I'm not welcome here on Blade Forums.

Would I be welcome if I promised to never buy another Ganzo? How about if I never buy from a company that pays an undisclosed Chinese company to make things for them? Maybe that's not thorough enough... Should I check and see what a company does with its profits, what politicians or policies they support, etc.?
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The issue is complicated. There is a lot we don't know. So with that in mind, let's do one thing we can all see that is not complicated: let's not support an obvious cloner brand. Easy and simple. Not a lot of choice in what products we support in the rest of our lives. In our knife hobby, we can make good choices quite easily.
 
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