New "designer line" of knives from Ganzo = Adimanti

Status
Not open for further replies.
o_O IMO , ideally a "forum" is a place to freely exchange information and differing opinions between members , in a somewhat civil manner .

You should try it some day.

Otherwise it's just an infomercial or an intellectually incestuous exclusive club .

You're under the delusion that moral outrage over despicable business practices is the result of group think. You are not the oppressed minority you like to imagine yourself as.

Commercial self interest is understandable and valid , but the attendant extreme moral outrage seems excessive and misplaced . :(

Spoken like a true Cold Steal fanboy.

I don't think it's wrong to recognize that Ganzo seems to be moving away from copying , even with the newer "Firebird" models and more so with the designer focused "Adimanti " line .

I should think that the forum might consider this trend, per se, to be a positive change .

I recognize that they are coming up with original designs while still making the ones that they stole. "Moving away from" stolen designs would require them to actually move away from them. And even if they ever do, it doesn't change their past. You can choose to be morally flexible and ambiguous as you want to be. Just don't get all pissy and indignant when other people don't. You'll never get your "See? I told you so" moment.
 
You know where to find sal. It would make more sense to go tell him your off topic rant than me here. And I'm sure he'd gladly tell you how badly these ganzo folks have hurt his business or even how they took pictures of spyderco prototypes at a show when it clearly wasn't allowed and they were asked not to. But hey! Let's talk positively about ganzo! :rolleyes:
:p You brought it up regarding Sal . Then called my answer a rant . :rolleyes:

:confused: It's much easier to attack Ganzo rather than actual counterfeiters , or your own pricing policies , QC etc . If customers prefer to buy a Ganzo copied from your brand , maybe you should try to understand why . But it actually seems to me that most folks buying $20 Ganzos never were going to buy a big brand name expensive knife . Different market entirely .

Maybe if Ganzo got some encouragement for baby steps , they might do more to phase out the unacceptable practices ? How has the endless bashing and blaming worked out so far ? o_O
 
Every time this comes up I get very confused. Not all of these arguments have been made yet, but MAP has come up, so the rails are off anyway.

Companies using other companies IP is bad if they take the branding as well, but is okay if they only take a little and use their own brand, and its sometimes okay if they make an "original" design with stolen branding?
Companies should not restrict dealers because the dealers should set the market, Dealers should not be able to have exclusive products because the company should set the market.
All products should be available at all times without consideration for market share, likely sales, production schedules, manufacturing capacity surplus etc.
Companies are not harmed by the reputation of their dealers because everyone knows they are separate, dealers are hurt by the actions of the company ie warranty support.
Companies are at fault for QC, and dealers should check for QC, no knife should ever be produced at a tolerance of greater than a single GBF (Gnat's Bum Fuzz)
20$ knock-off knives don't hurt companies because that person was never going to be aspirational and buy a better knife ever, Pricing knives above an arbitrary point is a poor business decision.
All products must meet a budget, but cost of material and labor should always be to the highest available standard.
All products below my price-point are garbage, all products above my price-point are over-priced.
My wage has not kept up with the rate of inflation, so therefor the products I like should not get more expensive than my ability to buy them.
My standards of morality are unimpeachable, beyond reproach and above question. Yours however are either society destroyingly low, or just insufferably high. I mean, we are talking some things that look like other things, its never come to the level of fraud, libel, theft, or the unexplained death of a business partner.

Now with that out of the way, my view on this. It is the point of this forum to ensure that the public, should they want to know, has as many records of as many deeds within the manufactury of our chosen hobby so that they can make choices based upon their overall view of the world. Therefor its in the forums best interest to bring up Ganzo's past and further companies tied to them just as is the case with shady custom makers, and designers who are bigger than their boots. If someone puts up the ninth crowd funding campaign to pay off the failed eighth, then this forum should let people know. If people get mad about that, then maybe they should try untangulate their feelings and their pocket books and decide if a couple hours of their labor is worth the asking price for the thing they want.

More directly DocJD, If ya got the answers to all the world's problems, why are you here slumming with us? Ya might have noticed that Superman and friends have not made a showing, and so we need someone to go fight on behalf of truth, justice and some idealized version of the american way (Somewhere between Roosevelt and Carter, minus the company towns and corporate invasions, if you don't mind, just being historical, not that other thing) We need a hero. Every inventor, manufacturer, producer of some sort who has a sucessful product that is protected under a brand, trademark or whathaveyou, that I have ever heard, has said that their biggest foe is counterfeiting and what that does to their reputation. Now they could all be wrong, and could all just be trying to oversell their product. Its possible, large groups of people have been wrong in the past, however it tends to be unlikely if said singular mindset is not inspired by a leader or other personal bias. I dunno. Do some more reading on cognitive bias, re-read a few threads with something blocking the names in the sidebar.
Same time next year? Or are we doing this quarterly these days?
 
Ok so is anyone going to explain WTF this thread is about to us lesser mortals not so invested in knife maker politics.
 
A friend of mine owns a Ganzo.
The hated Lionsteel SR1 clone.

Although it is obvious where the design history comes from, it is also very obvious that it is not a real Lionsteel. Nobody purchasing a Ganzo could honestly believe that they are getting an SR1 if they have half a brain.

What I find interesting is how members bring out torches and pitchforks if someone even whispers the Ganzo name but ignores everything if an “acceptable” company produces a knife with “IP theft” features.
The Benchmade Griptilian with a thumb hole comes to mind as a common example. Gerber’s clone of a CRKT would be another. Why do they get a pass for their actions and Ganzo is nailed to a cross for everything they do? There seems to be a double standard here.

More importantly, why can’t members ignore the “IP theft” issue and openly discuss the merits of designs from companies like Ganzo if it is clear the knives in question do not cross the line into evil clone or counterfeit territory? And, don’t try to tell me that’s against forum rules. That’s BS and we all know it

Let me be clear, I don’t support what Ganzo has done in the past.
And, doubt if I will ever will.

But, seriously, guys, Ganzo is not going away. You are fighting a battle you can not win. Go after the people that produce true
counterfeit products first.
 
...Same time next year? Or are we doing this quarterly these days?

I think it may be a quarterly issue. It certainly is an issue that will not go away.

I wonder how many new forum members have been run off over the years by the blade forum police. Their crime? They happen to consider a Ganzo product.
 
:p You brought it up regarding Sal . Then called my answer a rant . :rolleyes:

:confused: It's much easier to attack Ganzo rather than actual counterfeiters , or your own pricing policies , QC etc . If customers prefer to buy a Ganzo copied from your brand , maybe you should try to understand why . But it actually seems to me that most folks buying $20 Ganzos never were going to buy a big brand name expensive knife . Different market entirely .

Maybe if Ganzo got some encouragement for baby steps , they might do more to phase out the unacceptable practices ? How has the endless bashing and blaming worked out so far ? o_O
You yourself said your rant was off topic.

You are 100% wrong if you think Ganzo doesn't hurt sal's business with their cloning.

Do you give active criminals a pass on their crimes because they do something not criminal once in a while?

No credit for doing what you should be doing anyway. Sorry.
 
What I find interesting is how members bring out torches and pitchforks if someone even whispers the Ganzo name but ignores everything if an “acceptable” company produces a knife with “IP theft” features.
The Benchmade Griptilian with a thumb hole comes to mind as a common example. Gerber’s clone of a CRKT would be another. Why do they get a pass for their actions and Ganzo is nailed to a cross for everything they do? There seems to be a double standard here.
Other companies don't get a pass. Use the search feature to see how many discussions have happened on various companies and IP theft issues. BTW, Benchmade and Spyderco came to a resolution on the use of the hole just like you would expect from stand up companies.

More importantly, why can’t members ignore the “IP theft” issue and openly discuss the merits of designs from companies like Ganzo if it is clear the knives in question do not cross the line into evil clone or counterfeit territory? And, don’t try to tell me that’s against forum rules. That’s BS and we all know it
Most here, including staff and owner, find it difficult to separate knife maker or brand from product (take strider as a non-IP theft example). It's BS that you think I am saying the discussion of ganzo is against the rules. I'm not. What I am saying is the the forum has an official policy on it's feelings towards clones, and that is backed up by most members. This policy goes so far as to ban the sale and promotion of clones. So discuss away! But be prepared to hear what the forum and its members have to say on the subject.
 
Last edited:
I wonder how many new forum members have been run off over the years by the blade forum police. Their crime? They happen to consider a Ganzo product.
I wonder how many forum members have been made aware of how IP theft hurts the industry, this hobby, and this community, and stopped buying these brands over the years from discussions like this?

I know of at least one....

And with that being said, unless there is something new brought to the table, by someone new to the discussion, I'll be bowing out of this thread. There is no point in me wasting my time (on what is looking to be a beautiful Sunday) going back and forth with the usual clone supporters.
 
Last edited:
For what it's worth, for me this isn't about IP theft. I, among others, don't believe in IP at all. It's the moral principle. Companies and makers must adhere to the market, this particular market, on the whole, demands that original designs not be copied without the originators approval.
 
With so many brands being made out of the same city in China, I wonder if some or all of them have the same parent company? Does anyone know? Is it possible that buying a Reate knife, or Stedemon, or any other Chinese brand could also be contributing to IP theft? I don't know the answer but would hope someone here could enlighten me.
 
With so many brands being made out of the same city in China, I wonder if some or all of them have the same parent company? Does anyone know? Is it possible that buying a Reate knife, or Stedemon, or any other Chinese brand could also be contributing to IP theft? I don't know the answer but would hope someone here could enlighten me.
Can't speak for others, I do know that Reate is it's own entity. David Deng heads the company.
 
Do you guys put Hogue in the same category as Ganzo for what they did with Pardue's Griptillian? I don't think that level of "design borrowing" is any different from what Ganzo has done.
 
Do you guys put Hogue in the same category as Ganzo for what they did with Pardue's Griptillian? I don't think that level of "design borrowing" is any different from what Ganzo has done.
Really ?
Hogue Knives is proud to be the exclusive manufacturer of knives for Heckler and Koch. Our knives are made in the USA and will provide years of service through quality materials and superior craftsmanship.
 
I wish I held the patent on a knife edge. Then, all knife manufacturers would be beholden to CJ! Mwuhahahaha
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top