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Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by exmaxima, May 2, 2015.
Some prefer a frontal lobotomy. I prefer a bottle in front of me.
Then it is best to make "in my experience" statements when praising ZT as well, or is this not how it works?
Like I said I have many ZT knives, I do not dislike them. Just noticing reoccurring *traits* that I'm not opposed to hearing/voicing.
There's so much talk about "this test not being scientific so I'm not going to consider the results". A central tenant of empiricism is SKEPTICISM. If you see a negative post about ZT and instantly dismiss it, we are halting the advancement of knives. Science would not be where it is today with out the good folks that call out the established techniques/norms/ etc.
Some call it trolling, I think it's what's moving the hobby forward. Calling it how they see it even if it's taboo. We just have to work on those who can't receive information that's contrary to their engrained beliefs.
GM airbags fail and just kill people, it doesn't stop customers from spending tens of thousands of dollars and letting loved ones fly down freeway at 70+ mph. I'm sure plenty of complainers here drive them. All mass produced products (and customs too) have a percentage of defects, I guess the key is to Whine about it.
Yes, I agree, you should see a therapist!!!
you took that I was referring to you?? why would that be??
I'm pretty sure that people on car forums complain about cars that should be good but fail, too. People on gun forums go crazy when a gun from an otherwise good company keeps failing. Yes, companies produce products that fail, and discerning people who follow that product as a hobby go to forums to discuss the issues.
Amen brother !!!!!!!!
Guys, I obviously have no constructive input here. I enjoy my KAI/ZT knives and also many other brands. So you all keep circling the wagons and bashing ZT every single chance you get!!
And BTW way, no internet tough guy here. Just a lover and user of all things sharp. I f we ever meet I would be the first one to buy you a beer and shake your hand. This is the internet, not real life. Its all just pretend right?? lol
Lol good attitude brotha. We often get lost in arguments over knives... with the only other people that like knives as much as our selves!
An ignorant statement, is still an ignorant statement regardless of who it was pointed towards.
I'm complaining because my ZT's (all of them) have bad lock geometry, which of course hurts your heart since you always are here to defend ZT. So, I'm sure that was directed towards me as well, which I'm so pleased to be the topic of your discussion poolhustler:thumbup:
It's nice to know that we have members here that are qualified to tell us what the substance of our lives is or is not
I think you should put PhD in your signature, since it's blank. Then we'll know when an expert is posting on the forums.. I'm dead serious, no joke! Do it man!
Cant say i agree. It depends on the maker and their intentions. ZT has chose to go with a strong detent. And In my experience light switching them is the best way to open them. Every ZT I have had with the newer stronger detent breaks in to be much easier to operate. Its not a matter of being wrong, just different.
As for the lock being able to be pushed over there really isnt anything that can be done about it. Its simply the way the knife was designed. And it was designed that way because of whining and complaining. Honestly ZT is probably the one company that listens to its customer base and it is a completely thankless job. The reason the lockbar will move over is based on two things. One is the the lock bar insert. It slips instead of galling.
The other is the fact that on most models they have done away with curved lockfaces. Curved lockfaces prevent the excessive lockface engagement from happening but if the lockface does wear down you get lock rock with no room to wear in. The only reason our carsons dont do what a ZT does is because of the curved lockface. Now, I personally feel that if you have a steel lockbar insert you may not need to have to have the ramp type lock face.
Either way, this whole thing is pretty simple. Dont buy ZT knives if you dont like how they are doing things. Its not bad, wrong, stupid, improper this that or the other thing just because you can point to a single maker who does it differently. If they all made stuff the same way only one select group would be happy. And maybe that is the real problem. ZT worries too much what a few random know it alls (myself surely included) have to say about how their knives are made. Make no mistake if they went with weaker detents you would have just as many negative replies in this thread. The only difference would be that it would be different people doing the complaining. Still, I wish I could find one of these impossible to flip ZT's. I have purchased 6 ZT knives in the last few months and not one of them I felt had a detent that was too strong.
As for china, I was impressed at first but as I see prices increasing fast and designs getting more and more simple I dont feel china is representing the value they did only a year ago. The carson Boiling is a creature all of its own. Its very well made and to me is more like a custom than production. But I am not too convinced that carson will be around much longer.
Too many "experts" here already. I'll stick to building incredible houses and estates....
The thing is bodog that with cars people accept them for the way they buy them. You go to a dealer and test drive the car. You either like it or you dont. With knives every individual person seems to be an expert. Sure some guys are modding out of the gate on fast cars but the majority of people arent buying an audi without even sitting in the thing, dropping a ton of cash on it and then taking it home, joining car forums to bitch about how Audi doesnt know how to make cars since BMW does it a different way. Each person feels their set of ideals and wants is the "right" way to do things. And with the way people buy knives always wanting the deal, they order sight unseen and just expect that every time they put their money out there that the knife company should be psychic and know exactly how every "expert" would want their knife set up. Think about how uncompromising some of us are. And now remember that they are trying to design knives for the majority of their fanbase. They cant possibly make every model with variables to make every single individual happy. A big issue here is that people are taking their "likes" and pushing them as being the only proper way to do things which is really unrealistic. This is why I got into modifying knives a few years ago. 9 times out of 10 if I get a knife that isnt set up the way I like I can change it. And I do all the time. But that doesnt make my way the only way.
I've had very few issues with my ZT knives and much less so recently. I've had no issues with unsafe locks.
I did not like the sticky lock on my 2013 0560/0561/0550.
On the 0560/0561/0560CBCF series I felt that the detent was too weak (circa April-August 2013).
Last year I sent 3 knives back to ZT for minor issues: 0770CF pivot was off, 0801CF had a stiff lock and blade not centered and a 0350SWCF with blade not centering.
This year's crop has been much better with some caveats. My latest 0562CF had a blade not centered but it was an easy fix with two Wiha bits. I have not sent any back in.
The real issue (some may call it a problem) has been with the noticeably stronger detents this year. It took a while to break in my 0392, 0392BWBRZ and 0452CF. Even from the beginning you can make them flip one-handed if you do not apply pressure on the lockbar and just push down on the flipper button. Anyway, after quite a few open/close cycles they all break in nicely so that even with some pressure on the lockbar they flip. The others 0454204P, 0770CFM4, 0801S110V, 0801S110VBLK, 0566CFM390, 0900, 0450, 0630 (not a flipper) and 0808 did not need any real break in although 0808 was a little sensitive to lockbar pressure.
Are the detents too strong? Perhaps. Is it subjective? Yes. Are they designed that way? Yes.
My preference for ZT detent strength is the 0801 series. I guess I like my detent strength medium-strong!
Were you able to completely disassembly your 0562CF? Even with a pair of Wiha drivers, I was afraid I would snap the head off a few of the screws, notably the large one under the clip. There seems to be lots of threadlocker on them. If I knew I could break them loose, I would open up the knife and polish the detent hole a bit.
Regarding the detents, I think I know what you mean. When I look at the detent hole in the blade of my 0562 (G10) it is exactly the width of the slot in the lockbar. The new 0562CF has a larger detent hole, perhaps 40% bigger, that the detent ball really drops into. In addition to the larger hole, it may possibly also be stepped (a smaller hole beneath the larger hole) to somewhat limit how far the detent ball drops into it. In any case, the newer style detent locks closed with a loud clunk!
I did not need to disassemble it. However, I had to use two Wiha Torx T07 drivers. One to hold one side in place while I adjusted the other side. With the thread locker it's a little tough. So far, it has stayed in place since there's still thread locker in there.
If you are going to selective choose what you quote to twist it your way, don't quote me like you did. I did say "My 550 had a strong detent such that I couldn't open it out of the box." after which I said after it broke in I was very happy with the knife. You sure seem to have an axe to grind.
And for the record I have no lock issues nor no issues closing either of my ZT one handed.
I don't want to talk about you or me or anyone else save for some people who make knives. I don't believe anyone is talking about modding a knife to their specific desires and needs. I believe people are talking about knives that fail out of the box and need immediate warranty work. That's unacceptable for a car, boat, house, or anything really. Happening every once in a while or something negligible is one thing, something that happens consistently or is a complete failure is another. Anyway, I don't want to be the cause of a thread closure. I just want to talk about knives, the good, the bad, and the stuff in between. Some are better, some are cheaper, some are prettier, some are more functional. We're here for the knives and we're entertained by this or we wouldn't keep talking about it thread after thread. It's a point of contention that most people can discuss without getting overly irate. Some people cannot handle that and flip out. I'm glad that the majority can civilly discuss these things. This thread hasn't been too bad. Some good stuff has been said about some companies, some bad stuff has been said, and people are just discussing these things. That's what we're here for.
If you put the knife in the oven for ten to fifteen minutes at two hundred it will lossen the hold on the loctite. Hat temp is not high enough to do damage. If you have a soldering iron between 25 and 40 watts you can place the tip on the head of a screw for 10 - 20 seconds and it will break free. Loctite was if i remember the answer to complaints of lost screws.