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"Nocturnal Defense"
- Thread starter RobertHankins
- Start date
wolfmann601
Gone, but not forgotton. RIP Ira.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2001
- Messages
- 7,385
Sylvester, you sound like an idiot. Are you????
Dr. now this is just my opinion I`ve been wrong before
Look at all the slip joint makers, is that thier design?
How about all the liner lock makers, did they design it?
Yes you can change the blade & handle shape from the original
design but there is only so much you can do. It`s still a liner
lock. How about the famous drop point knife, if the designer
bitch each time someone copyed it he would not have time to
make knives. On.on,on there is noting new. Take the vette when
they came out with the new revolveing head lights , Wrong Cord
had them in the 30`s. The botton line is No matter what you make
your design was influenced by some one else. Like I said just
my Opinion
Look at all the slip joint makers, is that thier design?
How about all the liner lock makers, did they design it?
Yes you can change the blade & handle shape from the original
design but there is only so much you can do. It`s still a liner
lock. How about the famous drop point knife, if the designer
bitch each time someone copyed it he would not have time to
make knives. On.on,on there is noting new. Take the vette when
they came out with the new revolveing head lights , Wrong Cord
had them in the 30`s. The botton line is No matter what you make
your design was influenced by some one else. Like I said just
my Opinion
MelancholyMutt
Doggy Style
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2002
- Messages
- 3,906
I'd bet a whole dollar that Sly was just mocking some people...
I like that kind of sarcasm...
Could someone explain this to me....
.
Every once and a while, a major factory gets knocked off, and the response here goes something like; *Dude that sucks, you should blank, blank, blank*. But when it happens on an individual(maker on maker) level, everyone laughs it off. Why is that?
This wasn*t just a case of someone making similar items, the fella (Who is a talented maker in his own right) knocked off everything down to the stipling and photos. There*s got to be a point where even the most ardent supporters of parallel designing realize something*s not right.
Note, my quotation and apostrope key shorted out, sorry if the posting is a bit hard to read.
.
.
.Every once and a while, a major factory gets knocked off, and the response here goes something like; *Dude that sucks, you should blank, blank, blank*. But when it happens on an individual(maker on maker) level, everyone laughs it off. Why is that?
This wasn*t just a case of someone making similar items, the fella (Who is a talented maker in his own right) knocked off everything down to the stipling and photos. There*s got to be a point where even the most ardent supporters of parallel designing realize something*s not right.
Note, my quotation and apostrope key shorted out, sorry if the posting is a bit hard to read.
..
Being influenced by someone else is normal. Chevrolet was influenced by Cords revolving headlights, maybe. By the time they used the idea, Cord was history. Chevrolet didn't make Cords and place a Chevy badge on them. That is theft.
Go back and read this thread from the beginning, pay particular attention to the photographs of both Eric's products, including the actual photo layout, and Robert Hankins' virtually identicle copies, including his copying of even the photo layout.
That is not called being influenced. There is a far stronger word for it.
:barf:Sylvester,
Thanks for going into more detail. I don't agree but you made your point much more clear.
As far as the slip joint makers..... Due to the significant difference in price, I doubt that the custom versions have any impact on the companies that originated the designs. Like Cord, many of them are out of business anyway. I would go as far as to bet that Case benefits from custom makers reproducing their old designs. In todays knife market, it probably contributes to keeping the interest in them alive.
The exact copying of designs that are IMMEDIATLY popular is the problem here. It's IMMEDIATLY taking advantage of someone elses popular item or knife. I'm my case, yes there are a bunch of credit card knives on the market. I never realy saw any of them selling all that well so I produced a variation that I thought would do well, AND IT DID!! My problem was with another maker seeing my version selling very well.....Then producing the EXACT same card with the EXACT same holes in the EXACT same location AND with the EXACT same grinds in the EXACT same place on the knife
I won't even go into the Skirmish copy!!
In this case, there is very little interest in Space Pens and carbide tipped scribes. What IS popular right now are Erics version of the chop sticks. The problem I see is knowing of their immediate popularity, copying them EXACTLY and trying to cash in on it.
MelancholyMutt,
In all sincerity, USN/BF inter forum wars aside, I don't know how I missed your prior 1400+ posts.
You mentioned:
>>>If you must pry, I am pursuing dealership options so that I may give my friends access to knives at wholesale prices. Quite a few BF and USN members can attest to the fact that I've given away hundreds of dollars worth of knives and members of USN, Guro Jeff and Snake eyes, can attest to the fact that I'm independently wealthy and need not make a goddam penny off of knife sales.<<<
It would probably be much more appropriate in a new thread but could you PLEASE explain this idea further?? This is probably the most unique concept I've ever heard of in all my years as a forum member. I wonder how this forum would consider discussion of a not for profit knife purveyor...as advertising??
Neil
Thanks for going into more detail. I don't agree but you made your point much more clear.
As far as the slip joint makers..... Due to the significant difference in price, I doubt that the custom versions have any impact on the companies that originated the designs. Like Cord, many of them are out of business anyway. I would go as far as to bet that Case benefits from custom makers reproducing their old designs. In todays knife market, it probably contributes to keeping the interest in them alive.
The exact copying of designs that are IMMEDIATLY popular is the problem here. It's IMMEDIATLY taking advantage of someone elses popular item or knife. I'm my case, yes there are a bunch of credit card knives on the market. I never realy saw any of them selling all that well so I produced a variation that I thought would do well, AND IT DID!! My problem was with another maker seeing my version selling very well.....Then producing the EXACT same card with the EXACT same holes in the EXACT same location AND with the EXACT same grinds in the EXACT same place on the knife
I won't even go into the Skirmish copy!! In this case, there is very little interest in Space Pens and carbide tipped scribes. What IS popular right now are Erics version of the chop sticks. The problem I see is knowing of their immediate popularity, copying them EXACTLY and trying to cash in on it.
MelancholyMutt,
In all sincerity, USN/BF inter forum wars aside, I don't know how I missed your prior 1400+ posts.
You mentioned:
>>>If you must pry, I am pursuing dealership options so that I may give my friends access to knives at wholesale prices. Quite a few BF and USN members can attest to the fact that I've given away hundreds of dollars worth of knives and members of USN, Guro Jeff and Snake eyes, can attest to the fact that I'm independently wealthy and need not make a goddam penny off of knife sales.<<<
It would probably be much more appropriate in a new thread but could you PLEASE explain this idea further?? This is probably the most unique concept I've ever heard of in all my years as a forum member. I wonder how this forum would consider discussion of a not for profit knife purveyor...as advertising??
Neil
Richard
BOUNCED EMAIL: I need to update my email address in my profile!
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
- Messages
- 1,742
Yeah, the sticks or whatever they are (people will buy anything) appear to be a direct attempt at a rip-off and that sucks. However while you are shooting your mouth off about the photo layout, maybe I should say that Eric ripped that layout off? I mean the "Cutlery Shoppe" used to sell some sleeve darts (or daggers) I believe made by Pat Crawford. You will never guess the photo layout for those....yup, just like Eric's (minus the pda). This was probably 10 years ago give or take. Plenty of pointed sticks made over the years too.
i think all of the poeple that are really native to the usn, and that basically just joined because they wnat to bitch at bladeforums they should shut it, we could have a banfest with all the crap thats being said.
I havent been showing my support, but hwat kommondor said "Robert, I hope you learned from this mistake.
You are far too talented to be wasting time making nails."
so, so soosooooo SO TRUE!
boo frikkin hoo, its not that easy to design a new weapon once in a while, everyones doing it, guns, cars,knives, drugs, condoms, whatever.
Spark, i think your the king **** for saying your speach back there, its sooo true. And i love the real bladeforums patriots like Mutt, he shows his forum pride,.
I havent been showing my support, but hwat kommondor said "Robert, I hope you learned from this mistake.
You are far too talented to be wasting time making nails."
so, so soosooooo SO TRUE!
boo frikkin hoo, its not that easy to design a new weapon once in a while, everyones doing it, guns, cars,knives, drugs, condoms, whatever.
Spark, i think your the king **** for saying your speach back there, its sooo true. And i love the real bladeforums patriots like Mutt, he shows his forum pride,.
Yes, I have a few vintage CS catalogs, these have the Crawford Devil Dart pics. there is one shot that matches up, the up the sleeve, reverse grip shot. The Blair/Hankins shots match up a lot closer stylistically, then the Blair/CShoppe shots do, though.
No one here is disputing that Bodkins, spikes, yada, yada, have been made for years, the blantant rip off stylistically of designs is what is being discussed here.
Aarron, youre still young, perhaps when someone steals line for line something you made, youll get the big picture. Ethics, kid, Ethics
.- Joined
- Apr 25, 2001
- Messages
- 98
Mutt,
I wasn't prying. You posted the info first. I merely thanked you for clarifying.
So, your not going to make any money off of your knife deals because you are going to buy makers knives at wholesale and then sell them at the wholesale price. OK, as long as your suppliers are Ok with you under selling them on their own knives.
I guess that leaves your other "twelve personal issues" with the USN as the reason that you justify what Mr. Hankins has already apologized for.
You said:
So it goes like this then?:
You don't like the USN crew so why not rip-off their founder's design. In fact by your own admission in the above statement you'll actually support it. And if any of us "cross over" here to complain about this then we are just starting trouble.
I guess the difference between you and me is that if I see a knifemaker getting ripped-off I will speak up regardless of what forum the knifemaker belongs to.
You won't. To the contrary you said you would support it.
Mutt, you said:
I don't wish the Blade Forums or any of its members ill will and I think that Mr. Hankins has done right in so far as he has apologized. I look forward to seeing his own designs in the future as he obviously is skilled.
Take care Mutt.
I wasn't prying. You posted the info first. I merely thanked you for clarifying.
So, your not going to make any money off of your knife deals because you are going to buy makers knives at wholesale and then sell them at the wholesale price. OK, as long as your suppliers are Ok with you under selling them on their own knives.
I guess that leaves your other "twelve personal issues" with the USN as the reason that you justify what Mr. Hankins has already apologized for.
You said:
So it goes like this then?:
You don't like the USN crew so why not rip-off their founder's design. In fact by your own admission in the above statement you'll actually support it. And if any of us "cross over" here to complain about this then we are just starting trouble.
I guess the difference between you and me is that if I see a knifemaker getting ripped-off I will speak up regardless of what forum the knifemaker belongs to.
You won't. To the contrary you said you would support it.
Mutt, you said:
I don't wish the Blade Forums or any of its members ill will and I think that Mr. Hankins has done right in so far as he has apologized. I look forward to seeing his own designs in the future as he obviously is skilled.
Take care Mutt.
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2002
- Messages
- 5,368
I try not to get into any pointless bickering, but damn this is just plumb retarded. A lot of people have reverted to childish name-calling and I'm assuming everyone here is a grown up.
Mr. Hankins did something wrong -- there is a line of creating a "style" of knife and taking a design. "Technicalities aside, I think we all pretty much know where that line is and he crossed it. He did it, he apologized, and his sales from the forums will reflect it.
Do you guys want him tarred and feathered? What will appease the masses here?
We're all grown ups and we all love knives, what's the point of all this?
Mr. Hankins did something wrong -- there is a line of creating a "style" of knife and taking a design. "Technicalities aside, I think we all pretty much know where that line is and he crossed it. He did it, he apologized, and his sales from the forums will reflect it.
Do you guys want him tarred and feathered? What will appease the masses here?
We're all grown ups and we all love knives, what's the point of all this?
Richard,
Yeah, us dumb SOB's will buy anything. Fair shot and not suprising from you but don't try to blow the photo concept up my/everyone elses A$$
The FRIGGIN' old CS photo ad is layed out that way to highlight the #%&*! Wrist Sheath
AHHHHHHHHHH I can't take it anymore
I have to go bang my head against the wall.........
:yawn:
Guys, I have not mentioned this once in any of my posts on this subject, but since it has been referenced several times in both threads on this subject, I feel I have a right to comment on it.
The rivalry between the USN and BFC is getting out of hand. I truly believe this is one of the stupidest things I have encountered in my adult life. Its almost like 2 gangs. EAST SIDE, WEST SIDE. Come on guys, lets put things in perspective. There are folks that frequent this forum here that I disagree with, there are folks on USN I disagree with. You will find people of different beliefs where ever you go. But what is not really being mentioned is the similarities. What is the primary topic of interest on both forums?? Knives!!! Knives, Knives, Knives, We all love them, we all crave them.
I do not frequent USN, and I am not going to go into details why. Thats not beneficial to anyone. So I guess in the realm of this rival gangland style collectors circle, I am a BFCer. I truly enjoy Blade Forums more than words can express. I am sure many people here do. I am also sure many people truly enjoy USN more than words can describe. Being apart of something that brings you so much joy will instill pride in you for being a member of this great organization. There is no reason your pride for being a part of one group should mean that you are automatically against people with pride that belong to another organization. There are allot of cross forum members here that enjoy both. Good for them. They get the best of both worlds. Guys weather you want to admit it or not. Membership at both forums is made up of the same kind of people. Dont let where you hang out determine who you like and dislike. In short I implore you:
NO MORE BROTHERS WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The rivalry between the USN and BFC is getting out of hand. I truly believe this is one of the stupidest things I have encountered in my adult life. Its almost like 2 gangs. EAST SIDE, WEST SIDE. Come on guys, lets put things in perspective. There are folks that frequent this forum here that I disagree with, there are folks on USN I disagree with. You will find people of different beliefs where ever you go. But what is not really being mentioned is the similarities. What is the primary topic of interest on both forums?? Knives!!! Knives, Knives, Knives, We all love them, we all crave them.
I do not frequent USN, and I am not going to go into details why. Thats not beneficial to anyone. So I guess in the realm of this rival gangland style collectors circle, I am a BFCer. I truly enjoy Blade Forums more than words can express. I am sure many people here do. I am also sure many people truly enjoy USN more than words can describe. Being apart of something that brings you so much joy will instill pride in you for being a member of this great organization. There is no reason your pride for being a part of one group should mean that you are automatically against people with pride that belong to another organization. There are allot of cross forum members here that enjoy both. Good for them. They get the best of both worlds. Guys weather you want to admit it or not. Membership at both forums is made up of the same kind of people. Dont let where you hang out determine who you like and dislike. In short I implore you:
NO MORE BROTHERS WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I tried really hard to keep from posting on this thread, but in the end I could not help myself. Im not sure what Mr. Mutt's beef is, but I sure wish he would choke on it and save us the mindless rants. I have never (ok rarely) been exposed to idiocy such as has been recently demonstrated by this individual. You sound like a real tough guy.....right. I hope you are aware of the fact that you are doing yourself a great dis-service by running your mouth incessantly. The custom knife world is relatively small, and your mouth has made it an even smaller one for you. Grow up, quit whining, or better yet, do us all a favor and find another hobby.
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2001
- Messages
- 398
Dr. L --
You really can't believe this . You want us to believe that because some maker makes a $400.00 copy of SOMEONE elses design that it sells more of the cheaper factory models . I'm not real sharp but that is as backwards as any statement made in this thread so far . Most low end slipjoint buyers could not even invision that someone would ask hundreds for what they could buy from case for $50 or $60 . Now I am not slaming slip joint buyers as I own many myself but get real , an unlicensed copy is an unlicensed copy no matter what it is . I don't agree with what Robert did but , you do have to admit pointed sticks are just about as original as tits on a boar .
Regards,
Jerry